When Is Openzaurus Going To Be Ready?

[spam_all_you_want]

Two years ago I bought a SL-5500 Zaurus.  I installed OpenZaurus on it because it had a newer kernel and more features than the default Sharp ROM, and more importantly the Sharp ROM was abandonware, while OpenZaurus was still under active development.  However, OpenZaurus was very buggy, so I switched back to the Sharp ROM.

A couple of months ago I thought, well, they've been developing it for 2 years, they must have fixed those bugs by now, so I tried again.  Again, it had a much newer kernel, and a great list of new features.  But it wouldn't even install.  I looked at the comments on the website.  Half of them said "it doesnt install for me either" and the other half said "it crashes whenever I hit a certain a key".

So, when is OpenZaurus going to stop adding new kernels and featurs and make an operating system that actually works?

[JohnX]

So, when is OpenZaurus going to stop adding new kernels and featurs and make an operating system that actually works?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91912\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

As soon as you stop complaining and fix the bugs...

[lpotter]

Any community based project is worked on by volunteers. Open zaurus (distribution) is currently worked only by a small handfull of people that do this in their spare time.

Same goes for Opie.

[samxiao]

go use Dell Axim
Zaurus is not for you

[bam]

isnt there a pdaxrom out for the 5500? Try that. Oh and dont complain unless your going to volunteer and help. IMHO

[spam_all_you_want]

So, when is OpenZaurus going to stop adding new kernels and featurs and make an operating system that actually works?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91912\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

As soon as you stop complaining and fix the bugs...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91918\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

My point was not that there are bugs - all programs have bugs - but that the number of bugs has increased over the past two years.  This is the opposite to every other free software program I have used.  What would be the point of me fixing some bugs in the current release if the next release just adds a whole bunch more?

Some projects avoid this problem by having stable and unstable branches.  The gung-ho developers add features to the unstable branch, while the old hands fix the bugs and make stable releases for the public.  Now, maybe OpenZaurus doesn't have enough developers to maintain two branches, but in that case there should be one branch - stable - and a new feature shouldnt be allowed into it if it causes major system instability.

I mean, two years work and this project is less usable than it was before.  If you use a metric like  lines of code or new features added then maybe there has been much progress, but if you use a metric like usability or number of non-dev users then there has been *negative* progress.

[samxiao]

So, when is OpenZaurus going to stop adding new kernels and featurs and make an operating system that actually works?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91912\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

As soon as you stop complaining and fix the bugs...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91918\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

My point was not that there are bugs - all programs have bugs - but that the number of bugs has increased over the past two years.  This is the opposite to every other free software program I have used.  What would be the point of me fixing some bugs in the current release if the next release just adds a whole bunch more?

Some projects avoid this problem by having stable and unstable branches.  The gung-ho developers add features to the unstable branch, while the old hands fix the bugs and make stable releases for the public.  Now, maybe OpenZaurus doesn't have enough developers to maintain two branches, but in that case there should be one branch - stable - and a new feature shouldnt be allowed into it if it causes major system instability.

I mean, two years work and this project is less usable than it was before.  If you use a metric like  lines of code or new features added then maybe there has been much progress, but if you use a metric like usability or number of non-dev users then there has been *negative* progress.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91939\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

so according to you
they should discontinue the OpenZaurus project
okay... then so what?
you don't need to use it
no one force you to use it

if you don't like it
leave it, ignore it

[spam_all_you_want]

Oh and dont complain unless your going to volunteer and help.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91938\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

So, basically, only programmers should be using OpenZaurus?

[chrget]

So, when is OpenZaurus going to stop adding new kernels and featurs and make an operating system that actually works?[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91912\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Probably never, even if the developer base expands.

The current developers don't care all that much about bugs and stability -- they mainly want to have fun, since OZ is a hobby for them. Nobody is paying them for what they are doing, so it most definitely is their right to do that.

Seems that with that attitude, they more or less draw, at best, people with the same mindset towards the project, thus more or less just aggravating the problem.

If you indeed do want to help out, you are more or less forced to subscribe to their entire design philosophy using the OE build environment. This approach of course is annoying enough for people not to join in.

Oh well. I'll leave it at that. I'll be stoned to death now by the OZ fanatics anyway, since I dared to state that the emperor is indeed naked.

Best regards,
Chris.

[ken]

So, when is OpenZaurus going to stop adding new kernels and featurs and make an operating system that actually works?

Might take a while, as oz is a moving target.  If it's stability and oz that you want to use, you probably should stay one version behind.  If you don't mind dealing with the various issues, then the current version is for you.

Most of this depends upon what you want in the os for your Z.  If it's a mostly bug free os you want, then you probably want to use the Sharp ROM or one of the offshoots that are based upon the Sharp ROM, like tkcrom etc.

There are also a few oz based versions that try to provide a little more emphasis on stability rather than feature set.

The bottom line is you need to think about the philosophy that each os is trying to achieve -- in oz's case, more of an emphasis of feature set at this point (at least that's my take on it).

You should also keep in mind that it's a lot of work trying to build an os from the bottom up.

[lpotter]

If you indeed do want to help out, you are more or less forced to subscribe to their entire design philosophy using the OE build environment. This approach of course is annoying enough for people not to join in.
Best regards,
Chris.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91942\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

the old buildroot is still out there, it needs to be updated at sourceforge.
I use it for qtopia 2.1 roms, and maintain a relatively updated packages.

[Brian Hursey]

If only a normal user knew how much work and dedication creating a project like OZ takes they could truly admire it for what it is instead of complaining about little bugs. This distribution is targeted towards geeks mostley if your not a geek and complain about little bugs that we expect don't use it.

Like people have already said if you want stability stick with the sharp roms or an stable fork of them.

[jomo]

If only a normal user knew how much work and dedication creating a project like OZ takes they could truly admire it for what it is instead of complaining about little bugs. This distribution is targeted towards geeks mostley if your not a geek and complain about little bugs that we expect don't use it.

Like people have already said if you want stability stick with the sharp roms or an stable fork of them.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91969\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Oh, believe me, I know, and I always indicate my appreciation when I ask a question on these boards.  Having spent more than a few hours repairing/restoring other folks' computers and generally being Mr. Fix-It on my own time, I understand the Oz/Opie folks' situation.  I also make clothing and leather goods and occasionally turn a wrench or do carpentry.  It's a hobby for me, but I do give my time to other people for help with their decks and their porches and their cars and their kids' halloween costumes.  All I can say to Spam is: "Consider the cost you paid for Oz."  Nothing but a relatively small amount of bandwith (for the download).  They, on the other hand, spent HOURS (weeks and years for the veterans) working on Oz for free.  Oz/Opie is one of the better PDA user interfaces I've seen, and, while there are things I wish it did better, there are things I wished my $500 Palm did better, and Palm/PalmSource rakes in millions a year to do their thing.  So I'd like to take this moment in a rather sordid and un-necessary thread to thank MickeyL, Brian Hurley (if you ARE one of the Oz guys), and all the Oz people for all the stuff they do.  I'd also like to thank LPotter for building Qtopia ROMs and Maslovsky, Stupkid, and Iamasmith for their work on Cacko.

[lardman]

Might take a while, as oz is a moving target. If it's stability and oz that you want to use, you probably should stay one version behind. If you don't mind dealing with the various issues, then the current version is for you.

Exactly. This is the reason why there appear to be more issues with 3.3.5 than there were when you last tried it.  

3.2 was stable imo, as was 3.3.6pre1, I've not got round to trying 3.3.5 on my 5500, but it's certainly rock-solid on my c750.

I think there were two major issues with the 3.3.5 release for the 5500 - the arrow key suspend thing, and the on/off button not suspending correctly - my understanding is that both of these have been fixed and that you should install 3.3.5, then upgrade the kernel modules (and only the kernel modules, otherwise you'll run out of space) then flash the updated kernel.

I've not done this yet (as I said I don't really use my collie anymore), but I will (as long as I remember to find it) do so tomorrow as I'd be interested to work out why some people have had problems while for others it has been easy.

Like people have already said if you want stability stick with the sharp roms or an stable fork of them.

Or even better learn how to code and fix the issues you think that 'users' will find the most annoying. I imagine that I ignore most of the issues that a new user finds annoying simply because I've had better/more interesting (for me) things to look at and these problems simply become part of the background. The other thing is that these usability issues may often be simple to fix, and therefore may well be a good way to get started programming and contributing.


Si

[Brian Hursey]

If only a normal user knew how much work and dedication creating a project like OZ takes they could truly admire it for what it is instead of complaining about little bugs. This distribution is targeted towards geeks mostley if your not a geek and complain about little bugs that we expect don't use it.

Like people have already said if you want stability stick with the sharp roms or an stable fork of them.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=91969\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Oh, believe me, I know, and I always indicate my appreciation when I ask a question on these boards.  Having spent more than a few hours repairing/restoring other folks' computers and generally being Mr. Fix-It on my own time, I understand the Oz/Opie folks' situation.  I also make clothing and leather goods and occasionally turn a wrench or do carpentry.  It's a hobby for me, but I do give my time to other people for help with their decks and their porches and their cars and their kids' halloween costumes.  All I can say to Spam is: "Consider the cost you paid for Oz."  Nothing but a relatively small amount of bandwith (for the download).  They, on the other hand, spent HOURS (weeks and years for the veterans) working on Oz for free.  Oz/Opie is one of the better PDA user interfaces I've seen, and, while there are things I wish it did better, there are things I wished my $500 Palm did better, and Palm/PalmSource rakes in millions a year to do their thing.  So I'd like to take this moment in a rather sordid and un-necessary thread to thank MickeyL, Brian Hurley (if you ARE one of the Oz guys), and all the Oz people for all the stuff they do.  I'd also like to thank LPotter for building Qtopia ROMs and Maslovsky, Stupkid, and Iamasmith for their work on Cacko.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=92041\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I am not a developer on this project, but i am a developer and I work on suns open source project "Project Looking Glass". I wish I had time to contribute to this project but a man only has so much time..