When Is Openzaurus Going To Be Ready?

[bluedevils]

that *is* a cool project

[dhns]

If only a normal user knew how much work and dedication creating a project like OZ takes they could truly admire it for what it is instead of complaining about little bugs. This distribution is targeted towards geeks mostley if your not a geek and complain about little bugs that we expect don't use it.

Like people have already said if you want stability stick with the sharp roms or an stable fork of them.
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Isn't that a little arrogant? Asking others to admire your work and dedication, just because you have worked so hard to add thousands of features? Why is e.g. Windows hated for and MacOS X admired?

I know what I am talking about - I have myself a project for the Zaurus. And I got admiration  only for bug-free versions with just some key functions (all the buggy ones disabled), and not for the pure number of great features. And I also know how difficult it is to focus on that last bug, that takes 4 weeks to find - while you could have added 50 new cool features...

I myself have been invited several times to use OZ as the basis for my projects or participate, because it has a much more modern kernel and development environment. But I decided not to do so.

In my opinion, the OZ team should decide if they want to stay a small group of enthusiasts, who just want to have their fun - but having difficulties finding new developers. Or to produce something that others also can use in daily life. As somebody else already said, the entry barrier is too high. You already need to be an experienced developer to start fixing the little bugs. And as an experienced developer you probably already have your own project(s).

Just my 2 cents.
-- hns

[lardman]

In my opinion, the OZ team should decide if they want to stay a small group of enthusiasts, who just want to have their fun - but having difficulties finding new developers. Or to produce something that others also can use in daily life.

Do you think that making something which others will use in their daily lives will draw more developers to the project? I'm not sure. I think that being bleeding edge is probably a better way, and in any case it's all about doing something which is fun/interesting/challenging (it is done in everyone's spare time after all).

If there were someone who found it fun and exciting to polish things up a bit, that would be great, fingers crossed hey,


Si

[speculatrix]

In my opinion, the OZ team should decide if they want to stay a small group of enthusiasts, who just want to have their fun - but having difficulties finding new developers. Or to produce something that others also can use in daily life. As somebody else already said, the entry

I have held off commenting on this thread, but I think dhns "hit the nail on the head".  

I use cacko, I have tried both lite and full, and it's good, very good. Anton has managed to combine the best of the Sharp world compatibility with as many modern components that will run on the relatively antique kernel and qtopia. It'd be great if Trolltech could hire Anton to ak the Trolltech ROM, make it full backwards compatible with existing apps, and make it run on top of the base OZ build (kernel, gcc3 etc).

I am a linux enthusiast, I nearly always have the latest kernel running, and am frequently found tweaking my systems... even when it's uphill, like fiddling with Wine rather than submitting to the Borg (I must admit to using vmware too at the last resort).. however, I do value stability over bleeding-edge updates. That said, I have not touched openzaurus, because from all I have read, it seems to value bleeding-edge features over stability too far; if I had two zauruses, I would probably run OZ on one as a play-thing, but I have one Z which has to be both tool and toy, and thus Cacko wins.

[nilch]

I know, since day one there has been this debate with the OpenZaurus ROM, and its development style (bleeding-edge over stability).

While I am all for them having fun (heck even I do - I am so bored with my regular office work, that I will be glad to do something (like Python programming) and have fun, even if it does not add any value to my work environment at all) and enjoy the bleeding-edge, but from the users standpoint (and I am a user first when it comes to the Zaurus), stability and useablility is king.

I need to use my zaurus first for what I bought it for, and can't afford to keep changing kernels and Qtopia versions to check out the latest and best, in the process sacrifising a stably running Zaurus. And I guess most users will do likewise.

So now instead of critique-ing the development styles of Openzaurus or Cacko maintainers or TT etc, its upto those groups to realise which audience they want to play to. If its themselves and like-minded bleeding-edge 'jump-off-the-edge' type enthusiasts, then there is nothing wrong with that. Its only that if at the same time they (I mean OZ here of course) want to attarct USERS, then that would be counter-logical to their objectives and style.

So in this case it seems having fun and attacting users do not go hand-in-hand well.
Too bad. Again, as a developer myself (and not a user), I feel I would have more fun developing for a Stable ROM which many users use, staying on top of the bleeding-edge curve as far as possible.  I would love making apps which are stable and run and have nice features too. and hence I stick to the Cacko ROM.

So at the end of the day, its just a choice for the development group, and who am I to critique their styles.

And to Lardman, YES, I think that making something which others will use in their daily lives will draw more developers to the project. But then if its all about fun/interesting/challenging developemtn first, then thats a different issue altogether.

[omro]

Do you think that making something which others will use in their daily lives will draw more developers to the project? I'm not sure. I think that being bleeding edge is probably a better way, and in any case it's all about doing something which is fun/interesting/challenging (it is done in everyone's spare time after all).

Perhaps it should be looked at in this way:

What would people prefer to develop applications/features for?

A stable ROM that is a fixed target, used by a large number of people?
An unstable ROM that is a moving target that people barely use?

The fact that OZ is unstable puts people off from trying it. It is it's own bad publicity. If it were stable, more people would use it and probably be tempted to try developing for it.

I understand it's a hobby project. I don't wish to say anything against the developers who can do what most cannot. But maybe you should try allocating your OZ development time using the 80/20 rule.

Spend 80% of your time playing the a bleeding edge branch of OZ
Spend 20% of your time tidying up a frozen branch of OZ

I recently donated money to pdaXrom, why? It's a brilliant ROM and does almost exactly what I need. I'm grateful for that and have shown it through a donation, as have many recently to keep the pdaXrom project going. I'd never donate money to OZ, not because I don't appreciate the work that's gone into it, but because it's of no use to me what so ever.

I bet you, when you have more users daily only using OZ, when people can actually see the benefits of using OZ over any other ROM, people will appreciate what you're all doing a lot more and you might find those people more willing to donate money in gratitude for a stable ROM that improves their lives. More donations means more Zs for you to play with. ;-)

A happy user is a loyal user and a grateful one. Just a thought.

[lpotter]

I'd like to clarify something here.
There are two distinct groups working when you say, "openzaurus'. There are the Opie guys, (which include me), and there are the distribution guys. Distinquishing the two sometimes can be difficult, especially when it comes to bugs. So when you find a bug, you must ask yourself, is this a bug in the distribution? or a bug in Opie?
Sometimes it's Opie, but sometime's it's the distribution.

[tombraider]

I'd like to clarify something here.
There are two distinct groups working when you say, "openzaurus'. There are the Opie guys, (which include me), and there are the distribution guys. Distinquishing the two sometimes can be difficult, especially when it comes to bugs. So when you find a bug, you must ask yourself, is this a bug in the distribution? or a bug in Opie?
Sometimes it's Opie, but sometime's it's the distribution.
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Could you clarify what you mean by that?  I'm an end user and don't quite understand the difference between bugs in Opie and bugs in the "distribution".  

I did notice that the Hentges ROM seemed to have a fix for the cancel/suspend problem in OZ before the "regular" version of OZ had it.  Is that what you mean?  
 

[Snappy]

I guess coming in late in the game has *one* benefit ... 3.5.3 has so far been stable enough for me to use on a daily basis, this despite spending many hours and days getting modules to install etc.

However, I'm with having a stable usable rom anytime. Otherwise, it would be a rom developed by developers and used *only* by developers.

So far, I think its not to that extreme ... yet. Or maybe its because I am a developer myself?  ... ...

[offroadgeek]

Oh and dont complain unless your going to volunteer and help.
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So, basically, only programmers should be using OpenZaurus?
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No, people who enjoy OpenZaurus over other ROMs should use it.  I haven't used OZ my 5500 in some years now, but that's because I haven't used my 5500 at all since I got my 760 some years ago, so I can't comment on the stability for that version.  I'm currently using the hentges ROM on my 1000 and I love it.  It is plenty stable for me.  Keep in mind that the 1000 was released not that long ago.  Yes, there are a few quirks and it's not perfect... but I'm looking forward to helping improve the ROM, simply by my testing and feedback.

I am not a developer... I can barely edit the interfaces file without f'ing something up or looking up proper examples on the web.    

For a part time hobbie project, I think OZ/OE has made huge progress over time, and I hope this project continues indefinitely!