Build Your Own Linux Powered Pda

[wsuetholz]

it sounds like you have done somthing like this before, care to elaborate. you might want to get in contact with me if you want to get up to speed if you dont want to read everything up to this point (alot of i can be skipped)
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I wasn't very involved in the project, and it is a fairly simple device..
I don't know if you ever heard of a Swiss company call Mediaphonics.. They made a device which they called "Phonerider" which in later incarnations was a USB device that allowed us to develop a call center solution that would work with almost any type of environment, not forcing our customers to by a new switch in order to get all the fancy bells and whistles..  Well Mediaphonics went belly up, and the Phonerider device had various bugs that were never fixed, so we with the help of SMT designed our own.  Alot of our effort was in doing the drivers.  Unfortunately windows only right now.

I do know that they served us well, I also know that the cost per unit is very reasonable.  The time to develop and deploy was about 6 months.  

SMT's web site indicates that they partner with various companies world wide, including asian companies.  They claim they can offer a packaged deal, including the case and assembly.  They also say that it doesn't matter much to them if you are doing a prototype, one off, or hundreds of units.
They also claim to have simulation capabilities.

I tried the link and it worked for me.  Maybe FS or Neko can give it a look to see if SMT is worth pursueing.  I was mainly mentioning them as a possible build source in the states for people, not as a replacement for your choice.  

I work for a software developer mainly with IVR systems.  Lately (unfortunately) it's been mostly windows based development :-(  So, not much hardware expertise here.

Bill

[Da_Blitz]

well thats handy. i am looking for software people at the moment as well for the rest of the porting (i prefer to do hardware)

perfect world i would outsourec everything but i dont have the cash for that

got the link working. these guys seem like a design service which is nice but not within the budget set for this progect, the other problem is i  dont think it really adresses how we manufacture the thing. i dont want to handel the money at all, i would just rather give the details to where you can order your own one from (this is where the ezpcb guys are good) if we did use these guys  we will need to negotiate somthing like that however by the sounds of it we can also get cases thregh these guys so it may be worth it

i will add the link to the mystical wiki that few have seen

[Da_Blitz]

ok chipset update time

 i am thinking for the wifi we use the zydas chipset as its nica an smoll (BGA one chip package) and has usb and CF connections http://www.zydas.com.tw/product/ZD1211.asp

i think that we should chuck the CF on the ATA and this on the CF as we can get the full 802.11G speed out o it without sacrificing a usb port

next is bluetooth, i am thinknig we sohuld use one with EDR (so basically a 2.0 device) and chuck it on the usb 1.1 interface as that wont be routed to the outside world (its embarrising to have it on this chip )

i will think about how to attach the radio but that all depends on how it gets connected, if we do use the dual proc then perhaps we can make it look like sram or make use of shared ddr ram or somthing, need more docs basically. however even if we lose 1 usb 2.0 port its fine as we have another that can sit on the back

[Ferret-Simpson]

I'm going to guess by "Radio" you mean the MXC300. As far as I can tell from the Universal, Data is sent over USB, while the device is actually CONTROLLED by serial over an SPI link. (An internal Null Modem link?) Looks to me that the RPU emulates a serial modem over the SPI, while larger amounts of data, such as broadband internet data and images are fed over the USB, which is connected by a CPU-host to RPU-client link.

That, anyway, is how HTC do it. Looks good to me, as the MXC300 has USB2-Client, and if we throw wifi onto CF (Memory bus! >.< XP - Neko, THAT time was a joke.) that gives us a spare USB2-480. If we flash the CPU Bootloader over USB and then lock it RO, there's nothing to stop us doing the same for the RPU ROM, although since it's not going to be as much of a security risk - It'll be flashed over the USB RPU-CPU link and only flashable from inside the PPZ OS- I don't think we should make it a permanent rom like the PPZ bootloader. After all, if we can't get a 3G stack immediately, then it'll have to be reflashed later (With a simpler ROM in the meantime to provide GSM, GPRS and EDGE.)

CF-ATA hooray! That gives us our good fast-MDD support.

EDIT: Dual processor. .  That wouldn;t work if you're talking MXC and iMX. The processors then run a shared OS and tasks, not a Radio ROM and a PDA Rom. And if you mean 2xiMX, then I'm starting to seriously question that. to have a phone, we're talking both a CPU and RPU as it is, and 3 processors looks to be a BAD battery drain.

Also, while I'm editing, if anyone wondered, RPU = Radio Processing Unit, or the MXC300-30 Phone chip.

[Tom61]

i think that we should chuck the CF on the ATA and this on the CF as we can get the full 802.11G speed out o it without sacrificing a usb port

1. Do we have drivers for it in CF mode? The only open source drivers I've seen is for the chip in USB mode, and I'm not sure how easy it is to modify to be used for the chip in CF mode.

2. Wouldn't even Wifi use cause slowdown, since the pins are shared with the RAM? For normal internet surfing, it shouldn't be a problem, but what about video streaming and gaming over Wifi?

3. Why all this worry about 'sacrificing' a USB port? It'd be usefull to have two 480Mbps ports to copy between two mass-storage devices, but I don't see that coming up too often. For most usage I can envision for this, a built-in USB hub hooked to the other USB port should be sufficient.

[BarryW]

So what kind of driver support does this wifi adapter have??  Can we get rf-mon?

[Ferret-Simpson]

He's right you know. An internal USB hub, two port, would share nicely between the RPU and the Wifi. . . 54MBps and 2MBps.  . . Doesn't total enough to knock out a full USB load, is it? That would leave the other full USB free, and the CF/Memory link STILL untouched, although I thought that very little hit would come to the Memory from CF?

Although on the other hand, GPU and CPU memory access WOULD cause a huge hit to the CF bus. . . We wouldn't get a good speed that way. . . Better to go with the USB hub option. . . ?

[Tom61]

So what kind of driver support does this wifi adapter have??  Can we get rf-mon?
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[a href=\"http://zd1211.ath.cx/]http://zd1211.ath.cx/[/url]
http://sourceforge.net/projects/zd1211

[Da_Blitz]

Well after looking at the docs for the CF slot i relise just how wierd it is, yes it does share pins with main mem but for data transfer (not signalling) its on its own bus so data transfer between the cpu and ram and cpu and wifi can happen at the same time

the kexec stuff can execute any binary that can run on the raw hardware, it dosent matter what type of OS it is

i dont belive allowing the radio to be reflashed is a bad idea at all,even if we could reflash it from the PC that would be fine as it is seperate from the rest of the hardmare and cant be used to comrimise the OS unless a bug in the firmware is found (in which case you are stuffed ethier way

the wifi chip can do rfmon and station however i am unsure of the status of CF mode, from what i have seen it is unsupported however it is apparently easy to add support once they see some actual hardware with the chip in it

thoght i would also add in the transfer rate of CF, CF is 2byte * 2Mhz = 16MB/s multiply that by 8 and you get 128Mbps whech gives us some lee way. this thing will be able to stream moives and play them back over wifi due to the raw speed of the RAM ond the inuilt video card regardless of how the wifi card is attached compared to a pocket pc) this i due to the CF and mem bieng shared on the xscales and while we have tho same thing in part we do not take as heavey performance hit from it as well as having better and faster chipsets to support the cpu (eg ram, video card)

i normall refer to giving up a usb port when we only have one less as you never know if somthing comes along that will need that usb port, thier are stil some things i havent speced that for some reason wight need it, personally we only need one but 2 would be nice for things like dvd burners and usb storage at the same time but it can to a certin degree be solvud with a hub

[Ferret-Simpson]

For those that don't get the CF interface, from what I can translate of Neko and DB's technobabble (In which I am fluent OUTSIDE of this thread. XP)

The CF has a separate Data bus to the Main Memory, however the interrupts and addressing are shared. This is a better solution than the XScale because it means that there is very little overhead into the memory bus by CF.

Keep it and put wifi on it. That way we get a USB port free again. (We have 3, the Bluetooth needs one and the Phone needs one - A hub would add an extra power drain and would lower the total overhead on that USB port. If we can avoid it, we should.)

I'd say make it flashable from PPZOS only. It saves us having to try and hook up an extra USB client port externally for the phone, when it'll very rarely need to be flashed: The phone needs a USB client port connected to the iMX anyway, so just flash from that.



Waaaaaait. You were mentioning flashing the PPZ over USB to install the initial bootloader.  . Wouldn't THAT need USB Client support?

I can't remember whether I already mentioned this. . . How interface heavy and size heavy is RFID? Alot of people are likely to use it, I know I would. . . And unlike most technologies, it's both proven AND up-to-date (Usually, it's one or the other. Look at x86 vs PPC-64!)

I'll have a look for a part.

[Ferret-Simpson]

Just for posterity, and because I'm bored. . ..

CPU: Freescale iMX30 - 533mhz ARM11
RPU: Freescale MXC300-30 3G ARM11 with StarCore DSP. 533mhz.
RChipset: Freescale RFX300-20 3G Radio Platform.

RAM: 2Gb (512MB) Laptop DDR266 Memory in 2x1Gb chips.
HDD: Internal ATA CF/MD interface, User provided Card
SD: 2x 4bit SD slot, SDIO capable with 3rd Party Commercial stack.
NAND: 16MB RO for Bootloader only. Will kExec any Kernel from a variety of Media.

RFlash/Mem: Indeterminate NAND and SDRAM.

Wifi: Zydas ZD1211 chip on CF16: 802.11G-54, WPA.
BT: Unknown Bluetooth V2.0 on USB-1.1
Rad: RPU connected over SPI, Audio, and USB480
IRDA: Sir/Fir?

Keyb: Internal Backlit KBD,
Mous: Internal Trackball with "Select" function and illumination,
DPAD: Internal with OK/Canc.
Roll: On Landscape Rear.
L/R  On Landscape Rear
ACC: 3D Accelerometer.
BIO: swipe-bar Fingerprint scanner on SPI.

AUD: 5.1 with Microphone, and BlueTooth routing.
MSC: 3.5-4 inch, VGA, with integrated Resistive Touch Layer.
SSC: 4bit Serial on rear of device, for Phone display and viewfinder for Camera shots.
CAM: On main screen panel, above TFT in portrait mode. Supports Video and Stills.


CPLD to act as Programmable ASIC for SPI interconnection to devices.
Possible MicroProcessor to control Buttons and roller for use with phone when PDA disabled.
External full-size 480MBPS USB2 port.
Video out, Possibly 768i HDTV compatible, will be used for connection to external monitor.
Socket for network operator SIM card.

Security:
Key-signing of OS to prevent Unauthorised OS replacement.
Possible GSM trace functions including local MAC addresses and signal tower strengths.
Biometric identification of allowed users.

1800mAh Battery: Easily available Digital Videocam model.
Customised Aluminium case.

Still no decision reached between Clamshell and "Sidekick" forms. Possibilty discussed of making interchangeable.

This is all supposed to be on the wiki, but it's not stable yet, so posting here the latest version just for clarity and safety.

[Da_Blitz]

good rundown of whats in it

RFID now thats one i havent heard yet, but is it worth it. wost rfid solutions for identity are implemented badly and it hardly makes a good  password thinngy (ie swipe for acsess)

i dont think it would be too hard to add but i dont see much point. perhaps if you can point out a specific porpuse then i might consider it however you may be able to just use the sound jack and a bit of extra hardware to dump the data to the Z

yes we would need usb client, funny thing is that we have a usb OTG port, so it can be done its all a matter of cabeling (i happen to have a cable with the correct socket on both ends here, it has no practicle porpuse for most things on the market but it would be handy for the inital flashing)

[Ferret-Simpson]

And the guy who wanted USB client came out tops in the end after all.

Things that would be useful for RFID:

CAT scans. And DOG scans for that matter as well.

Some supermarkets are beginning to use RFID, would be helpful for me to stop having to manually enter barcodes and PID's.

For me, I'm probably doing a degree in cybernetics in the Autumn, and there's been some experimentation with RFID-based User interfaces. It's all very cool. XD

Computer Labelling: I'm planning to move all my labels to RFID as a theft security measure.

It's Currently-Existing-Technology, that looks to be a useful thing in the next few years, better to add it now, while at least some of us can be using it, then when it gets even more popular it's already there. Same with everything, if it's big and expensive, forget it, and there Are external USB readers available. There were people asking for a barcode scanner earlier, this is just the latest version of that.

Oh, and Thankyou. It's nothing. I'll do a fully-detailed-paragraph one again when everything is finalised. ^^

[speculatrix]

Things that would be useful for RFID:
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ok, so RFID sounds cool. Now, which one of the at-least-three commonly used proprietary non-interoperable variants do you want to deploy and hope that the IEEE don't subsequently ratify an incompatible variant?

sorry, but I think this one really is a pipe dream.

[Ferret-Simpson]

Can anyone say HD-DVD (Blueray), HDTV, Video Cassette, Flash Memory, Floptical. . . .
:/

Why are corporations such retards?