Author Topic: New Linux distribution for PDA and embedded device  (Read 9332 times)

amrein

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New Linux distribution for PDA and embedded device
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2004, 11:18:34 am »
What I still don\'t understand is why this kind of Linux distribution could prevent you from switching to other OS or ROM?
This thread is nothing more than a call for participation to a global project. It\'s a call for all people whose have the same dream and whose want to take part in it.
All other who don\'t like the idea already know that they can use every distro or rom they find out there to feed their zaurus.

Same strange idea for Sharp. Why should we care about how they would like the Zaurus OS to be or about their \'commercial strategy\'. They do what they want and you do what you want. As soon as this project will produce an OS that fill own common needs, I can\'t see what could be the problem ((feel free to not feel concerned if you don\'t like the community OS idea).

If the project is driven by a strong community, I can understand that it could scare you. It could be the case if you like for exemple a little rom that will perhaps die because of lacke of user support. Same problem for companies working in the embedded area that could see in it some kind of \"loose of control\". It\'s evident that for some of them It\'s better to freeze this initiative (note that I used plural for companies).

Who want a powerfull embedded operating system for their PDA?

I read padishah_emperor message saying that he wants a powerful tools and not a PDA. Again, where is the conflict with a community project that (1.) will build a powerful device operating system (2.) will build a powerfull applications for PIM management (3.) will let you do whatever you wants (as you will still be free, won\'t you?).

Ok, let\'s start talking with the ones whose are interested. Do zaurususergroup.com or www.killefiz.de/zaurus/ webmasters like the idea? What could be done? Someone else have ideas about what could be added to have something rock solid?

lardman

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New Linux distribution for PDA and embedded device
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2004, 11:40:26 am »
I actually think we already have a strong community.
C750 OZ3.5.4 (GPE, 2.6.x kernel)
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lardman

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« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2004, 11:48:09 am »
Oh and if you want debian on a Z then look here: http://people.debian.org/~mdz/zaurus/

Needs some more work, but that seems to be the direction you\'re looking in. I think you\'d be better off with OZ (for Qtopia style ROMs) or pdaXrom (for X11 roms) though rather than trying to move debian over again (OZ is debian based after all). Just my opinion.

Some background on why ipkg is a \'lesser program\' than dpkg :-) http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/iPKG


Simon
C750 OZ3.5.4 (GPE, 2.6.x kernel)
SL5500 OZ3.5.4 (Opie)
Nokia 770
Serial GPS, WCF-12, Socket Ethernet & BT, Ratoc USB
WinXP, Mandriva

lardman

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New Linux distribution for PDA and embedded device
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2004, 11:54:56 am »
BTW are you a subscriber to the debian-handhelds list?

If not it might be worth your while.


Si
C750 OZ3.5.4 (GPE, 2.6.x kernel)
SL5500 OZ3.5.4 (Opie)
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Serial GPS, WCF-12, Socket Ethernet & BT, Ratoc USB
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padishah_emperor

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« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2004, 11:56:05 am »
Quote
Ok, let\'s start talking with the ones whose are interested.
..and to hell with everyone who disagrees?

Quote
I actually think we already have a strong community.

I too think we have an excellent community, great people, a great choice of ROMs, apps, projects, programming frameworks, Amrein I really must take issue with you, we\'ve fought this battle in 3 or 4 threads now and I will keep fighting for the diversity and choice we have, you have a singular vision, one idea, one goal and that is to make my handheld Linux workstation as useless as a PPC or Palm.

I think pulling everyone together on one course, your course, would be the end of the Z, it will fragment the community right down the middle. If you want a strong PIM platform, you have it already, it\'s called PalmOS. If you want to locked into one man\'s idea of what a handheld should be, you have that too, it\'s called PocketPC or something.

We could probably use a bit of reformation, some projects could be merged, some abandoned, but keep the diversity, let people decide what they want on their Z.
Left Linux and Linux PDAs... sorry, got boring.  Switched to Mac.

amrein

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« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2004, 12:38:38 pm »
Quote
lardman
Oh and if you want debian on a Z then look here: http://people.debian.org/~mdz/zaurus/
Needs some more work, but that seems to be the direction you\'re looking in. I think you\'d be better off with OZ (for Qtopia style ROMs) or pdaXrom (for X11 roms) though rather than trying to move debian over again (OZ is debian based after all). Just my opinion.

Debian fusion with pdaXrom or OZ. It\'s exactly what I was talking about.

Quote
Some background on why ipkg is a \'lesser program\' than dpkg http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/iPKG

ipkg is a light fusion between apt-get and dpkg. Exactly the kind of tool that is necessary for this fusion.

Quote
padishah_emperor
Keep the diversity, let people decide what they want.

Of course people should have the choice. Building something is also a way to decide what we want. Thanks for your intervention dhns, w14, ScottYelich, (... and other people in other threads) I know that I\'m not alone.
Anyway, if no one want to defend this idea of Community OS for PDA it won\'t work. If you are desagree with lardman, tapjpa or padishah_emperor, just say it. And if possible, louder.


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offroadgeek

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New Linux distribution for PDA and embedded device
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2004, 12:51:20 pm »
Quote
There\'s also some work for own great sites ZaurusUserGroup.org and www.killefiz.de/zaurus/ :

_ list tasks that need works and ask for package maintainers like on Debian. I\'m talking about the wall purged application ipkg set and not the base system. (ZaurusUserGroup.org)
_manage the default applications construction (PIM, ...) in the present community.zaurus mirror. (ZaurusUserGroup.org)
Note: Those default applications need to be defined.
_ manage, if they want to and if it\'s possible, some more open source projects (separated from default one).
_ list all available software, have screenshots, ... (www.killefiz.de/zaurus/)
_ zaurus forum, zaurus faq (to revamp), ... (ZaurusUserGroup.org).


That\'s it! Someone agree or disagree?  ZaurusUserGroup.org or www.killefiz.de web master?

We\'ll do whatever we need to with the ZUG to support this effort.
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bluedevils

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« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2004, 01:46:54 pm »
I think amrein has the right intentions.  There are a limited number of active developers for the Z.  If you think the community is healthy, then ask why OZ would need help and why they didn\'t get it.  There just aren\'t enough active developers out there.  Pooling resources and putting out a strong OS and strong apps would be the best thing.  A proven mature ROM would bring more people into the community.  Once the community is heathier, then variety would naturally follow.

I just think don\'t think the more active developers (cacko and OZ) would agree with amrein\'s proposed plan.
I'm now an iphone user and use my zaurii as serial terminals, perl and shell scripting and when I need 640x480 screens

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Mickeyl

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« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2004, 02:33:06 pm »
Couldn\'t agree more to bluedevils. We have a misratio of developers to users in Linux-PDA-land and consolidation (in one way or another) is in my opinion the only chance for a couple of important projects to survive.
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padishah_emperor

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« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2004, 02:44:58 pm »
Quote
Couldn\'t agree more to bluedevils. We have a misratio of developers to users in Linux-PDA-land and consolidation (in one way or another) is in my opinion the only chance for a couple of important projects to survive.

Great!
So we WILL be limited in choice, Amrein, I\'ve noticed your postings seem to be either to criticise, complain, point out different hardware or software than the Z, I do not believe your intentions are good for the Z. Are you working for Microsoft?

OK, let\'s have a survey as to who wants to downgrade to a locked down PIM PDA or keep the Z as a flexible workstation which can fit in the pocket, and if the majority wish to go with Amrein let them, I will start an alternative arena for those who disagree.

Instead of trying to damage the community by blind consolidation and inhibiting choice, why not focus your obviously abundant energies in trying to improve OZ or pdaXrom? Why not just write the kind of PIM apps you want and a platform independent sync? It\'s just a smack in the face for all the people who have put so much effort into not only producing but developing and moreover using OZ and the QT ROMs.
Left Linux and Linux PDAs... sorry, got boring.  Switched to Mac.

bluedevils

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« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2004, 03:06:51 pm »
Padishah,

Please do not go ballistic as your posting implies.  We are merely trying to discuss what we think we need to do for the community to thrive.  As I stated before, variety of OS and apps will come with a thriving community.  You cannot speak for the OZ team, because Mickeyl has also voiced his opinion.
I'm now an iphone user and use my zaurii as serial terminals, perl and shell scripting and when I need 640x480 screens

sl-c3100/pda cacko 1.23 | sl-6000l/needs battery | sl-c760/server pdaxrom rc12 | Former sl-5500/tkcrom owner (sister's birthday gift)

padishah_emperor

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« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2004, 03:20:41 pm »
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Padishah,

Please do not go ballistic as your posting implies.  We are merely trying to discuss what we think we need to do for the community to thrive.  As I stated before, variety of OS and apps will come with a thriving community.  You cannot speak for the OZ team, because Mickeyl has also voiced his opinion.

I honestly did not know Mickeyl spoke for the OZ team.

I\'m not going ballistic, ;-) I just don\'t want the choice and flexibility we currently enjoy being culled for good intentions or bad.

Maybe something gets lost in translation whenever I talk to Amrein on this issue (and we have been through this before) but I do not share his dream of a locked down Linux based PDA, i.e. a Palm type system heavily leaning towards PIM functionality. To me it\'s a severe downgrade and a restriction of choice. Why not fix what we have?

That\'s my view, but it would seem I am in a minority..
Left Linux and Linux PDAs... sorry, got boring.  Switched to Mac.

bluedevils

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« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2004, 03:30:21 pm »
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I\'m not going ballistic, ;-)

Then I apologize.
I'm now an iphone user and use my zaurii as serial terminals, perl and shell scripting and when I need 640x480 screens

sl-c3100/pda cacko 1.23 | sl-6000l/needs battery | sl-c760/server pdaxrom rc12 | Former sl-5500/tkcrom owner (sister's birthday gift)

zbones

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« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2004, 03:41:04 pm »
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I do not share his dream of a locked down Linux based PDA, i.e. a Palm type system heavily leaning towards PIM functionality.

I really don\'t see why it would be \"locked down\" the source would be there to view, amend and contribute to.  Why can\'t you have the best from all roms in one rom?  Why does having good pims mean you can\'t run Apache webserver?

The reason why palm based systems are \"locked down\" is due to the o/s not being open source not because they have good pims.

Too much effort is being wasted by duplication as mickyl has pointed out countless times.  

The words \"locked down\" and \"linux\" do not belong in the same sentence, it is an oxymoron.

Peter
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padishah_emperor

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« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2004, 03:49:19 pm »
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The words \"locked down\" and \"linux\" do not belong in the same sentence, it is an oxymoron.

It was intended to be

:-)
Left Linux and Linux PDAs... sorry, got boring.  Switched to Mac.