Author Topic: Missing features of Cosmo  (Read 3578 times)

zsalab2

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Missing features of Cosmo
« on: November 10, 2018, 04:51:00 am »
Cosmo is an improvement over Gemini, but it has some shortcomings:

- 4000 mAh battery is now the standard in this price range (even the Gemini does not accomplished two full days - Cosmo will have for sure higher energy demand and conversely shorter runtime)

- no pen (Psion users will remember that a narrow pen was able to do the job)


and some minor flaws:


- screen looks stupid with wide bezel (I hope at least the onscreen buttons will not be black like in the Gemini)

- no optical image stabilization

- main screen not an AMOLED display

- is 6% thicker than Gemini (up to 1.60 from 1.51 cm)
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 02:24:01 pm by zsalab2 »

gidds

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Missing features of Cosmo
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2018, 04:41:12 pm »
We don't know whether there will be image stabilisation or not.  (Though I'm not sure it would be impossible in the space.  And you also complained about the thickness.)

I heard that one of the main reasons the Gemini's battery wasn't as big as originally intended was that airlines &c are placing limits on the battery size on devices they'll allow into the cabin; the Gemini (and the other devices you mention) just fit within that limit, but a larger battery wouldn't.  (Can anyone confirm that?)  If so, the same will apply to the Cosmo.

As for the thickness, the Cosmo is less than one millimetre thicker than the Gemini!  Are you really going to notice 0.9mm??  (Especially if that's only in the middle; it looks like most of the case won't be any thicker.)
[blockquote]Andy/[/blockquote]
Psion 5mx –> Gemini (–> Cosmo)

Calamityspice

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Missing features of Cosmo
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2018, 06:27:44 pm »
Image stabilisation? It's a PDA not a camera.

Battery? My Gemini lasts 3-5 days between charges. That seems fine.

Why is AMOLED so important? The screen seems fine to me.

0.9mm thicker? Really an issue?

Daniel W

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Missing features of Cosmo
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2018, 12:34:01 pm »
Quote from: zsalab2
...thicker than Gemini... ...battery...should be 6000 mAh...
Being concerned with the somewhat increased thickness of the Cosmo, while simultaneously desiring 50% more battery, seems incongruent. Given the same specified capacity, it seems likely the Cosmo will use the same kind of battery as the Gemini, which, to the best of my measuring ability is 129mm x 60mm x 2mm. To get 50% more, we'd have to accept another millimeter of thickness, lest we could shave it elsewhere.

But yes, as the Helio P70 has four "heavyweight" A73 cores instead of two A72 in the X25/27, the same four "medium" A53 cores and none of the extra low power A53 cores [Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaTek], a Cosmo may draw more power than a Gemini. Let's hope the shrink from 20 to 12nm is enough to compensate.

Quote from: zsalab2
I just got such an [6000mAh] external battery and it would fit in the case
If you have a 6000mAh external battery or battery pack, where the battery itself is 2mm thin, I'd like to know the brand and model to maybe get one myself. Any hint (and maybe a photo) you can provide, would be appreciated.

Quote from: zsalab2
- screen looks stupid with wide bezel
- main screen not an AMOLED display
While companies making millions of each smartphone model can have screens custom fitted to their cases, small brands are largely limited to off-the-shelf components. Even if Planet Computers could get custom screens, I doubt there's much spare volume inside the lid. In the top bezel are half of the magnets keeping the lid closed. On each side of the screen are the speakers, likely antennas (as the laws of physics says they can't be behind metal) and maybe backlight LEDs.

The MediaTek P70 supports screen ratios up to 20:9 (6.67:3) [Source:https://www.androidauthority.com/mediatek-helio-p70-916941]. Were suitable screens available and the speakers could fit behind it (likely making the lid a tad thicker) we could go 11% wider. As the Psion series 5 were 8:3 and the Series 3 9:3, with adapted software, the extra width could be made good use of, though for running Android/Linux, I personally doubt we'd gain from going beyond the current 18:9 (6:3 or 2:1).

While I adore the deep space blacks and bright primaries on my other AMOLED smartphone, I'm glad Planet Computers are using LCD for now. Current FHD smartphone AMOLED screens are using some kind of PenTile matrix. The MediaTek P70 tops out at 1080p, a resolution at which individual PenTile subpixels can be quite visible on ~6" screens. Beyond that, a suitable AMOLED, if available, could likely be a tad thinner, which would be nice.

Quote from: zsalab2
- no optical image stabilization
Yeah, if true, that's a bit of a bummer (and IFAIK, OIS tends to make camera modules wider rather than deeper). I'd gladly trade half the megapixels (and get lower noise per pixel) for OIS. I suppose it comes down to which parts plays nicely together.

Quote from: Calamityspice
Image stabilisation? It's a PDA not a camera.
Planet Computers does not seem to agree. The Gemini is a PDA, the Cosmo Communicator is "A pocket computer, mobile phone and camera: all-in-one" according to PC. I'd want OIS, but for the first product ever that, in a pinch, could (somewhat) realistically be my only personal electronic device, I'm willing to cut that corner.

zsalab2

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Missing features of Cosmo
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2018, 02:18:19 pm »
I am happy that some have 3-4 days, but for me the current battery does not last 2 days. I have the recharge each day.

I admit that there is 30-40% left at the end of the day, but this still means that I cannot go into a second day without reload.

mithrandir

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Missing features of Cosmo
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2018, 06:03:14 pm »
Quote from: gidds
We don't know whether there will be image stabilisation or not.  (Though I'm not sure it would be impossible in the space.  And you also complained about the thickness.)

I heard that one of the main reasons the Gemini's battery wasn't as big as originally intended was that airlines &c are placing limits on the battery size on devices they'll allow into the cabin; the Gemini (and the other devices you mention) just fit within that limit, but a larger battery wouldn't.  (Can anyone confirm that?)  If so, the same will apply to the Cosmo.

As for the thickness, the Cosmo is less than one millimetre thicker than the Gemini!  Are you really going to notice 0.9mm??  (Especially if that's only in the middle; it looks like most of the case won't be any thicker.)

I only know of a 100Wh and 2 gramms of pure Lithium limit per battery/device. This means 100Wh/3,7V=27000mAh. This is much more than the Geminis battery capacity (4220mAh) and leaves much space for increasing the battery. So if there is no other rule (I am not aware of any), the Cosmo really should get a larger battery.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 06:15:58 pm by mithrandir »

Eldkatten

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Missing features of Cosmo
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2019, 08:04:23 am »
Hello,

Quote from: zsalab2
(...)
- no pen (Psion users will remember that a narrow pen was able to do the job)
(...)
Do you have a Psion-like pen working on any of the recent touchscreen devices? You most probably haven't, because the Psion screen (like its contemporaries) used a completely different touchscreen technology (resistive vs. capacitive). Some time in the evolution of smartphones we traded precision (resitive, making it possible to use a pen or even a needle) for "multitouch" to be able to do all these cute wipe and pinch screen gestures.

So, a pen won't do any good on a recent touchscreen device. The "pens" you can get for smartphones are just metal rods with a big conductive rubber blob at the end, emulating a finger (or a nose tip), adding no precision. A Psion pen can't work on a capacitive touchscreen, as the Gemini, the Cosmo and all other smart devices have nowadays. Try it.
The last smart phone I owned, that had a resitive touchscreen (and thus a pen), was, after Ericsson P800 and P900, a Nokia 5230 (issued in 2009) with a proprietary os. But I have never seen a pen-compatible, i.e. resitive touch screen ever again since Android got the market.

Kind regards
« Last Edit: January 01, 2019, 08:06:27 am by Eldkatten »

Daniel W

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Missing features of Cosmo
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2019, 11:56:36 am »
I'd just like to add that while something like a Samsung S-pen looks a bit like the plastic pens of yesteryears, it works via induction, which transfers a minute amount of power wirelessly from the phone to the pen,  and can thus only work if the device, in addition to the regular capacitive touch screen, also has the inductive hardware integrated into its screen. This is btw. why an S-pen can't work on a Samsung S-series phone, which, while using the same screen and touch technology, doesn't have the inductive hardware.

On a regular capacitive touch, the next best option is an active capacitive pen, which, as opposed to a passive "rubber crayon", uses battery power to cause stronger interaction with the touch screen, thus allowing a finer tip to be used.

For reference, I've used an Adonit Dash 3 with my Gemini for a while, and while nowhere near as precise as my S-pen, I'd say it's roughly on par with the Psion pen. I can just about jot down simple equations, do basic sketches and use it as a (buttonless) mouse. As it requires an internal battery, it's about the size of a ballpoint pen. I'll try to make a separate thread about it, rather than going too far off topic here.

Edit: It's [a href=\'index.php?showtopic=35680\']here[/a]
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 04:23:44 pm by Daniel W »

ehem

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Missing features of Cosmo
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2019, 02:02:04 pm »
Quote from: zsalab2
- 4000 mAh battery is now the standard in this price range (even the Gemini does not accomplished two full days - Cosmo will have for sure higher energy demand and conversely shorter runtime)
Does apparently have a faster processor, but that will be at least somewhat offset by being more recent and thus likely using less power per transistor.  The feature I would like to see is either a pair of smaller batteries or else a capacitor large enough to keep Linux in something akin to suspend mode for 2 minutes.  One of these and you could hot-swap batteries without needing to restart the OS.  Once you can hot-swap batteries the time needed for boot becomes a non-issue and the underlying issue is mostly solved.


Quote from: zsalab2
- main screen not an AMOLED display
I'm pretty sure I'm the wacky one here.  Yes, the true black of OLEDs is extremely nice, but burn-in is a severe problem.  Nearly all measures which attempt to reduce burn-in also damage the positives of OLEDs.  One of the main efforts is to spread the color a bit to adjacent pixels and suddenly the benefits aren't nearly so wonderful.  What appeals to me is higher resolution.  You think 3840x2160 is high resolution?  I would love a device which could output to dual displays at 7680x4320@85Hz.


Quote from: Calamityspice
Image stabilisation? It's a PDA not a camera.
Optical Image Stabilization is a feature found on many cellphone cameras.  It is present on pretty well all mid-high end cellphones.  As the Cosmo is in this price category, it seems like a feature people will expect.

shinkamui

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Missing features of Cosmo
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2019, 01:00:10 pm »
Quote from: ehem
Quote from: zsalab2
- 4000 mAh battery is now the standard in this price range (even the Gemini does not accomplished two full days - Cosmo will have for sure higher energy demand and conversely shorter runtime)
Does apparently have a faster processor, but that will be at least somewhat offset by being more recent and thus likely using less power per transistor.  The feature I would like to see is either a pair of smaller batteries or else a capacitor large enough to keep Linux in something akin to suspend mode for 2 minutes.  One of these and you could hot-swap batteries without needing to restart the OS.  Once you can hot-swap batteries the time needed for boot becomes a non-issue and the underlying issue is mostly solved.


Quote from: zsalab2
- main screen not an AMOLED display
I'm pretty sure I'm the wacky one here.  Yes, the true black of OLEDs is extremely nice, but burn-in is a severe problem.  Nearly all measures which attempt to reduce burn-in also damage the positives of OLEDs.  One of the main efforts is to spread the color a bit to adjacent pixels and suddenly the benefits aren't nearly so wonderful.  What appeals to me is higher resolution.  You think 3840x2160 is high resolution?  I would love a device which could output to dual displays at 7680x4320@85Hz.


Quote from: Calamityspice
Image stabilisation? It's a PDA not a camera.
Optical Image Stabilization is a feature found on many cellphone cameras.  It is present on pretty well all mid-high end cellphones.  As the Cosmo is in this price category, it seems like a feature people will expect.


Most of the original points made here I didn't agree with.  I will say that lacking OIS really hurts the camera out of the box, especially in video performance.  Fortunately, the hardware is high spec enough for a software implementation to do a pretty good job of giving mid range quality stabilization even via a poor mans EIS.  Testing the cosmo with Open Camera immediately yields a massive improvement in video stability.  GCam may provide the best opportunity to take advantage of the sensor in the phone, as the stock cam samples I've taken so far crush shadows and blow out highlights in the same image.   Sharpness to noise is pretty good though, and the camera in the right lighting and conditions can produce some excellent photos.  Open Cam's HDR mode appears to be a very old school implementation of 3 shots and then long processing, and of course there's no meaningful night mode to speak of, so still looking to Gcam as a primary snapper.  There's a lot of data to work with from the sensor, I have high hopes for gcam to bring the photo quality up from low/middling to moderate/good.  

This honestly was a strong reminder of why I pay top dollar for one or two of the big 5's best camera enabled devices every year.  While mid range phones are getting WAY better, their cameras just aren't able to come close to keeping up with the big players processing R&D.  I didn't have huge expectations for the cosmo's camera.  I just needed it to be better than the gemini's joke camera.  PC achieved that easily and by a large margin out of the box.  Price to performance and value propositions for the cosmo seem excellent overall, especially considering the small batch of production, their r&d costs, vs their team size.  I think anyone expecting more at this price under these conditions is not being remotely realistic.