Messages

46

Astro Slide - Hardware / Re: ear phone noise

« on: January 01, 2023, 06:22:16 pm »

Replying to myself, I plugged my Zoom H1n into the left side USB-C jack of my Astro, set the Zoom to work as a "PC" Audio I/F and plugged headphones into the Zoom. While not particularly practical, it gave me 16 bit digital audio at 48kHz sample rate out of the Astro, with no noticeable noise or distorsion, which, to me, suggests that a USB-C to 3.5mm adapter with an internal DAC should work.

At first, I couldn't listen to the radio via the H1n, as the radio needs the analogue headphones as antenna, which seemed to get priority, so the headphones got the audio, with that "~120 BMP waltz metronome" going on. When I later tried again, though, the audio came via the H1n, so maybe it matters which thing was plugged in last.

There is a menu option in the radio app, to switch to "speakers" instead. This worked on the Cosmo, but when the Astro activates its speakers, it loses reception, as if it tries to use the speakers as the antenna too.

When I tried a third time, by first plugging in a headphone extension cable as antenna and then my Zoom H1n as Audio I/F, the Zoom got the radio audio, so at that point, I could listen via its little speaker, or plug headphones into the H1n.

Sorry if I'm rambling, but this seems to suggest that a small USB-C to 3.5mm adapter with an internal DAC and just an aux cable or something to use as a radio antenna, could cover my use cases, until (if) a fixed firmware (if even possible) gets released.

47

Astro Slide - Hardware / Re: ear phone noise

« on: January 01, 2023, 12:00:50 pm »

The problem is that androids audioflinger is not properly switching down the analogue output stage of the codec, leasing to residual noise on the headphone output. In the early days of the gemini someone made a fix for this, but I don't know where to find this. This should theoretically also be possible for the astro, given that we have the proper android sources around somewhere.

While it should help to turn off the appropriate analogue stages when no audio is playing, I suppose they must be on while audio is playing? On my Astro, which I think carries over to the common case, this noise is audible over, and sometimes louder than, intended audio. Could software could do anything to alleviate that?

Can you be more specific about which type of USB-C to 3.5mm jack? I gather there are types that simply route analog audio from the USB-C port (the same audio path as the 3.5mm? a separate mix?) and types with an internal DAC that circumvent any A/D in the Astro.

I am (somewhat confidently) guessing that while some of this noise may bleed through via USB power and ground, any audio amplifier that's physically outside the Astro, and receives its audio digitally, should be significatly less affected.

Wireless and digital, Bluetooth should be immune to such analogue noise, but the BT version supported by the Astro, has too much latency for, say, playing software instruments, and you get one more thing to keep charged.

For size, price and convenience, I'd frist try an(y) amplifier, i e an USB-C to 3.5mm active "adapter" (with its own DAC) powered by the Astro. As a step up, I'd look for a wired headphone amp with its own power source.

(Edited 2023-Jan-01 to better specify what kind of "adapter" I meant.)

48

Astro Slide - Hardware / Re: 3.5 mm headphone jack hardware problem.

« on: January 01, 2023, 11:26:04 am »

My bet is that all Astros has this issue, to about the same extent.

By their nature, digital signals switches between low and high - zero or one - as immediately as possible. If that leaks into analogue audio, you get snap, crackle and pop. If desired, see, for example, the Wikipedia article on square waves, for more on how digital signals looks from an analogue perspective.

Anything with digital signals and analogue audio has some of this challenge. Things that are actual computers, tends to have more of it. At the clock speeds involved, circuit board traces wants to be (very short range) antennas, making it hard, thus expensive, to stop this noise from going everywhere inside a device.

I think we're seeing an example of the difference between when big brands can spend a million dollars on testing, and when you have to rely on data sheets, and maybe an industry partner more focused on done than on actually good. These things are tricky, so I'm not pointing fingers, just trying to estimate reality.

Edit: Not sure why OESF decorated my text with "size=2px". Hope you can read it now.

49

Astro Slide - Hardware / Re: ear phone noise

« on: December 25, 2022, 04:35:04 pm »

My Astro leaks quite a bit of various digital clock signals into the analogue audio path. I plugged it into a digital recorder and captured two examples of what different states of activity might sound like. In both recordings, I used a soft clipper to chop 12 dB off from the loudest pops and then I saved the files as mp3 with joint stereo and an average bitrate of 128k. While perhaps a bit rubbish by today's standards, this isn't high fidelity to begin with.

OESF doesn't seem to embed a player for the mp3 files, so, for now, they are just attached files. Especially in the DC example, beware that the music is quite loud compared to noise, but the noise is still clearly audible. Heavier music may, to some extent, drown out the noise "better", but I picked a hymn to (a) avoid copyright and (b) illustrate the issue.

Astro DC noise (on battery all the time)

astro DC noise.mp3

1. Just plugged in headphones.
2. Taps home.
3. Either Android "quiets down" or the Astro actually lowers the volume.
4. Navigating app drawer, starting music app (Caustic)
5. Playing some music at would normally be a pleasant listening volume.
6. Stopping playback, leaving app, returning to home screen.
7. Either Android "quiets down" or the Astro actually lowers the volume.

Astro AC noise (using the included EU plug AC adapter).

astro AC noise.mp3

1. Headphones plugged in, Astro on battery, screen on, doing nothing.
2. Plugging in the included AC adapter.
3. Doing nothing
4. Either Android "quiets down" or the Astro actually lowers the volume.
5. Opening apps drawer.
6. Scrolling apps drawer.
7. Starting my music app of choice (Caustic from Single Cell Software).
8. Playing some music at would normally be a pleasant listening volume.
9. Stopping the playback.
A. Exiting Caustic via its menu.
B. See 4.
C. Taps the screen.
D. Opens the app drawer.
E. See 4.

Edit 2022-Dec-28:
While it might not matter much here, I realized I cropped the scales off the axes and failed to name my tools, sorry about that. Just in case anyone wants to know: The recordings were made on a Zoom H1n at 48kHz in 24bit (though the H1n is so noisy, I doubt those extra bits matters much) and the screenshots are from Audacity 3.2.2 on Windows 11. I probably had the Astro att full volume, set the H1n recording level a tad below 7 out of 10, and kept it there for both recordings. Two pops (when plugging in the charger) still clipped, but everything else was below -12dBFS (hence the soft clipper). While the clipper may have altered the dynamics a tad, it mostly should have worked as a normalizer that could handle the presence of those two clipped moments.

The vertical axis is in dB with a range of (only) 36dB, so even the smallest bumps shown are at least above -36dBFS and should thus be quite audible at a reasonable volume setting. The horizontal axis is, as usual, time. When the screenshots were taken, the "DC" file was 52.376s long and the "AC" file was cropped to one minute (and zero milliseconds).

50

Astro Slide - General Discussion / Re: First impressions

« on: December 25, 2022, 03:06:55 pm »

Hi Zarhan, I hope you don't mind me adding my first impressions here. Tell me if you do, and I'll be gone. I'm thinking that if we can gather first impressions in one thread, they'll be easier to navigate in the future. I have touched on some things you already mentioned, as I think it can be interesting to look for patterns, if any, in certain phenomena.

My unit booted to simplified Chinese, but I saw no deejoy-dota. I set it to English (I am Swedish, but find it easier to discuss things in English on the internet), leaving the Chinese installed, but when I then used the Planet Keyboard app to pick a Swedish hardware layout, the Chinese vanished. Either the Planet app removes all but the selected UI language or just simplified Chinese, say, if they know it might remain after testing?

At first, my battery drain was a bit high. To me, this seems common after major Android updates, as if it needs time to settle down, so I didn't worry. I saw some lingering Chinese though, so on day two, I took the advice of others here, and started over from a factory reset. Now, I don't need to wonder if a "proper" setup had helped, when something, inevitably, acts up. It seems to draw less power now. Maybe some test stuff was left behind? Anyway, I'd recommend a factory reset to anyone whose Astro booted into simplified Chinese, even if you intend to use that language on your unit.

I have Ö in my muscle memory, so I haven't swapped it with Ä, even though it's (a bit) more common, also in Swedish. The ALT + QWERTY thing sounds clever. Would the remapping app allow, say, ALT-Enter for backspace?

If we're talking about the same strip(s) of plastic, I think you should try to carefully glue it down (but "fatty" plastics often needs special glues). There are two tiny protrusions on the back of the screen that seems designed to slide along them on opening and closing. Mine are intact, and my screen still tends to type p on closing, but I can't imagine it helps, if pieces of the guiding system are loose or missing.

After making sure HDR was off and, by first clicking on the orange icon in the lower left of the viewfinder and then on the cogwheel that appears over to the right, setting the photo resolution to 12MP, which neatly aligns with 2x2 binning of the 48MP sensor, I am initially okay with the camera quality. I may not find the time to test it myself, so I'd like to hear if others can get better quality, in full auto, out of something else than the stock photo app. I may get Open Camera or such anyway, to get more settings, but as most of my photos are point and shoot, I'm interested in full auto in particular.

I notice that the OLED screen briefly flashes to full brightness when it turns on or off. It can be a bit jarring, but I don't really care. If the brightness is set very low, even with auto brightness off, the screen can suddenly go all black. Using the keyboard shortcut to raise the brightness some, brings it back to life, but that seems like something the first update should deal with. Other than that, I really like the screen. Yes, it's oversaturated, but as the screen by necessity is small, I think the color contrast helps bringing out details, and I find bright colors to be pretty, so I like it.

Edit 2022-Dec-26:
The amount of background noise from the electronics, when using headphones though, is a new record for me. It even beats my C64 fron 1983, I think. I have recorded some of it, so it may soon show up somewhere here on OESF. and uploaded to the ear phone noise thread.

On Zarhan's Astro, the display apparently comes on if the slider comes out even a millimeter (when putting the device into a case/pocket). FWIW, my Astro does not behave like that. I need to push my display about five millimeters before it wakes up, which I suppose is the intended behaviour. When I had just started my Astro for the first time it would wake up at the slightest nudge. In my case, that was because Settings -> Display -> (Advanced) -> "Lift to wake" was on. That might make sense for a device that mostly sits on a desk, but for me it became annoying, so I turned it off.

Edit 2022-Dec-27: Moved the SIM card. Now, my Astro, on which I'm typing this, is my main phone.

51

Astro Slide - General Discussion / Re: Pictures of the Astro

« on: December 24, 2022, 09:32:20 pm »

I don't think a never used Gemini case would fit an Astro right away.

As leather stretches a bit with use, the Gemini case was - correctly, in my opinion - made to be quite snug at first, as you noticed. After several months, mine loosened up to where my Gemini would fall out, if I held it wrong. Currently it fits my Cosmo nicely and my Astro a bit tightly. Being made entirely from rather thin, supple leather, I think it might adapt even to the Astro, if I kept using it for that, which I don't think I will.

If you'd go that route, I suppose you'd have to slowly stretch the Gemini case over time. If you have it, keep your Gemini in it, and take it out a few times a day. After a while, see if your Cosmo fits reasonably. Then, maybe, you could start thinking about the Astro, you hopefully have by then.

The Cosmo case is made from two kinds of leather, where only the thin strip joining the front to the back seems (to me) able to stretch, so I'm less sure that would adapt well to a thicker device.

I backed the "New Astro Accessories Pack", so at some point I suppose I'll get a slightly larger Gemini style pouch and one of those see-through backside-only plastic covers to experiment with. Until such I time I consider to have my Astro bare and be careful, but we'll see what I end up doing.

52

Astro Slide - General Discussion / Re: Pictures of the Astro

« on: December 22, 2022, 06:30:45 pm »

With my Astro inserted, my Cosmo slip case looks like this:

I think it's a bit too tight for comfort. As the case is sewn from four sections of leather, with the top and bottom being rather rigid, it seems to be the elasticity of the two narrow side sections that limits its ability to accommodate thicker devices than it was designed for. Maybe that leather could stretch from the 17mm of the Cosmo to the 19mm of the Astro, but if so, that could take weeks or months.

The Gemini slipcase, on the other hand, is made from only two sections of fairly pliable leather. With my Astro inserted, it looks like this:

This seems like an easier fit to me, and while you won't see any of it, the display will be a bit better protected.

53

Astro Slide - General Discussion / Re: Estimation of Astro shipment based on Cosmo Campaign

« on: December 20, 2022, 09:06:10 pm »

My Astro pictures thread is up now, in the General Discussion subforum.
/Daniel

54

Astro Slide - General Discussion / Re: Pictures of the Astro

« on: December 20, 2022, 09:00:14 pm »

Here are some angled shots of the closed device:

 

 

 

 

Angled frontal view of the Astro opened:

 

A rear angled photo, showing the Rock Up slider extended:

The location of the SIM tray, and the tray itself, front and rear:

 

 

Astro (left) and Cosmo (right):

All three; Gemini, Cosmo and Astro:

While, in the following, I could have tweaked the perspective to whatever, I have tried to reproduce what I saw with my own eyes. Here's a side view to compare the thickness of a Gemini (left), an Astro (center) and a Cosmo (right)

Individual devices, now with a ruler in view. My readings are 15, 17 and 19mm respectively:

 

 

Put another way, a Cosmo in its Planet slipcase is about as thick as a bare Astro:

While it won't affect me anyway, I notice the Astro keyboard, top to bottom, is 2mm narrower:

 

That's all for now, and I need to sleep now, badly.

55

Astro Slide - General Discussion / Pictures of the Astro

« on: December 20, 2022, 08:28:16 pm »

Today marks the beginning of my Christmas leave, so now I can finally turn my Astro, that came a week ago, on and begin moving in, but not until I have uploaded a bunch of photos, as I promised in the "Estimation of Astro shipment" thread.

In photography, I am not a professional and neither is my equipment. My quality target is "fit for purpose", with the intention of offering a decently detailed look at the Astro box and its contents. I declare all photos I upload to this thread as CC0 Public Domain to the extent possible by applicable law. While I hope there will be much better free images of the Astro made available by others, this is my attempt to make sure there is at least one set of free photos of the thing. Let me know if you think I have missed some relevant angle and I am likely to try honouring what I deem to be reasonable requests. Now, pictures:

I have tried to tastefully obfuscate maybe sensitive codes, while preserving their visual feeling. This the outer box, as it came and then open:

The inner box from the top, front, rear, bottom and side:

 

 

 

 

The inner box, with the first flap, held closed by magnets, open:

Both flaps open, Astro visible:

Here she is, wrapped in plastic:

The next layer in the box has a SIM tray tool on the outside:

Inside the thing the tool sat on, is a quick guide, a sheet of stickers and a really thin microfibre cloth:

A close up of the quick guide. It is really basic, like "this is on", "talk here". You get the picture:

The next layer in the box holds the charger and its cable:

Here's the Astro (left) and the Cosmo (right) chargers. The Astro charger is a tad more powerful, per its markings.

With the box now empty, here's the Astro, front and rear, with my hand for scale, and getting the angle right:

56

Astro Slide - General Discussion / Re: Estimation of Astro shipment based on Cosmo Campaign

« on: December 15, 2022, 11:46:53 am »

I promise this is the last "about me" post in this thread. Wednesday, December 14, 2022, my Astro finally arrived. It was scheduled for the day before, but, apparently, the delivery vehicle broke down about a mile from my home, so it seems safe to say there were delays in every part of this journey.

As I have, courtesy of my unusual-ish keyboard, used myself as the cutoff point for "most backers have received their Astro" (sorry, gymbo - I really hope you'll get yours soon), I'll stop tracking deliveries now, some 21 months after Planets original estimate. That might be a bit soon, as it seems the FIN/SWE keyboards got made fairly "early" this time, but I must move on. That said, my thoughts are with backer in places that, as of now, might not even have functional international postal services, or even electricity. I look forward to the day when Planet reports that every single crowdfunded Astro has been delivered.

While I haven't even booted my Astro yet, I have taken a bunch of photos, which I intend to upload to a new thread as soon as I can find the time. /D

57

Astro Slide - General Discussion / Re: Estimation of Astro shipment based on Cosmo Campaign

« on: December 10, 2022, 07:23:35 pm »

In news that may interest nobody but me, just over 24 hours ago, over a month after the latest official update from Planet, that I know of  (#75 from nov.5), I got a shipment e-mail with a tracking number from Indiegogo, saying my shipment has been export scanned from HK, so maybe it's finally my turn.

58

Astro Slide - General Discussion / Re: Campaign updates

« on: November 05, 2022, 08:49:44 pm »

Bumping this old thread to post a direct link to the latest campaign update video, in case someone, like me, isn't all that fond of clicking on half a mile long gibberish links in emails:
https://player.vimeo.com/video/766920268?h=c754849618
(I didn't click on it either. I rather decoded the Base64 part and dug the relevant URL out from there.)

59

Astro Slide - General Discussion / Re: Help me choose between the Pro1 and the Astro please !

« on: October 04, 2022, 04:43:12 pm »

The Astro is released. There are some people on this forum who has received their units already. Manufacturing and actual deliveries are happening, in fits and starts, in between unpredictable Chinese zero covid case policy lockdowns, and other logistics and supply chain issues, that messes with every aspect of the process.

You will, at some point, be able to run Linux on an Astro. I don't know much about rooting phones, but as opposed to other manufacturers, who may go to great lengths to prevent that, Planet has actively supported rooting both the Gemini and the Cosmo, by allowing the bootloader to be unlocked and by releasing rooted firmwares. Even though no firmwares at all has been released for the Astro yet, people are still tinkering with rooting it anyway. For example:
https://www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?topic=36812.0

While, I think, most of the Linux work is done by volunteers, Planet is generally speaking supportive of their efforts, and they have released an "official" Linux media for the Cosmo.
https://store.planetcom.co.uk/products/linux-media-installation-card-for-cosmo-communicator

I must stress that while I have used (desktop) Linux, I'm very much a rookie in that field, so I might be wrong on details. I can't be of any help when it comes to installing or using Linux (on any system). Even though you don't have a Gemini or Cosmo, you might want to look into their Linux subforums here, to get an idea of what people are doing with devices that has been out for a while.

60

Astro Slide - General Discussion / Re: Help me choose between the Pro1 and the Astro please !

« on: October 03, 2022, 04:31:12 pm »

The number of available units in limited offers has historically been elastic. My qualified guess is that once a project owner publishes a limited offer, Indiegogo won't let them lower the numbers offered, only add to them, if they want. As steeper discounts on more units equals less money, it might pay to be a bit conservative. Also, showing lower numbers might bolster a sense of urgency among potential backers... Not accusing, just saying...

At the start of a project, Planet has offered a few hundred steeply discounted devices. Once mostly gone, they've kept adding some units, again and again, until, at some point, they've let the cheapest tier to run out, at something odd like 2905 units, but kept adding units to less discounted offers for longer. For now, they seem to keep the 30% off €573 offer just above zero units (two, right now), maybe to stop anyone from backing a lot of them at that price or perhaps to tease that the offer is ending soon. Either way, the same thing can be available at multiple prices.

I think Indiegogo writes "Get this perk" and "Refund contribution", not "Buy this item" or "Cancel order" for legal reasons (they do write "Sold out" though). As I wrote earlier, crowdfunding isn't buying, it's contributing to a project that, hopefully, will give you the "perk", in return. Would a project fail, we, as backers, might not get any money back, as opposed to someone buying a full price device in a web store.

After contributing, you may change your mind for a few days. After that, I presume, Indiegogo hands the money to Planet Computers, who certainly intends to get you an Astro, but wouldn't automatically break any law if they failed to deliver anything. While that may sound scary, and there are many failed crowdfunding projects, Planet has, thus far, delivered, if slowly, in the end.

While likely harmless, I recommend against making your particular contribution id public. Too specific information on anything of value, could encourage a would-be cyber-crook to try to abuse it somehow. Around here, something like 10xxx is precise enough. The number itself is akin to an order number.

Planet has said they try to deliver phones roughly in id order, but within a production run, they need to make batches with the same keyboard layout, because reconfiguring the laser etching machine is slow. They also do quality checks and shipments to distribution centers in batches. They often prioritizes the more common layouts, which is why some US Astros in the 4-5000 id range was ready for shipping in August, while my sub-2000 Astro, with a Swedish keyboard, as far as I know, hasn't left the warehouse in Hong Kong yet.

As a backer, you will get email updates a few times a month. Previous updates, 73 thus far, are available here:
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/astro-slide-5g-transformer#/updates/all

I have no idea how long it will take them to get to the 10000 id range. That'll depend on everything from the mind of president Xi to the weather. Hopefully you will wait a lot less than me. Today is exactly thirty months since I contributed (though actual deliveries began earlier this year and, at first, almost exclusively went to Planets biggest market, Japan).