Author Topic: Olympus Produce Linux/wince Pda - R1000  (Read 18052 times)

kopsis

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Olympus Produce Linux/wince Pda - R1000
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2005, 08:38:15 am »
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They aren't targetting Zaurus users. They are targetting 'joe sixpack' - more of them around.

Really, if you need GB's of storage you don't need a pda, IMHO.

You're right, I don't need a PDA. Neither does Joe Sixpack nor anyone else with an average mobile phone. My middle-of-the-road Sony Ericsson T610 does a great job of managing my contacts and calendar and it syncs seamlessly (and wirelessly) with Outlook on my PC.

So if I'm going to be compelled to shell out a bunch of money for another device that I'm going to carry around everywhere, then it better do a whole lot more than my phone can. And as phone capabilities continue to grow, it continues to raise the bar for other handheld electronics.

Currently the three things that compel me (and most of the others on this forum) to carry the Zaurus are display, keyboard, and storage ... all things that the Olympus (and most other PDAs) are currently lacking. And it's the synergy between those elements that makes the whole greater than the sum of its parts. Lose any one and the value of the other two drops dramatically.

As I've said before, the market for traditional PDAs is dead. For Joe Sixpack, who is already carrying a phone and an iPod, a PDA is completely unnecessary. Today, any conventional PDA design is doomed to failure. Most people (myself included) won't carry three devices. So a handheld has to completely replace the phone or the media player and offer enough compelling additional capabilities to choose it over the more specialized (easier to use) device.

Now, in all fairness, I don't think Olympus is targeting Joe Sixpack. They appear to be targeting industrial use (much like Sharp's original plans for the SL-6000) hence the ruggedization. But if that is indeed their goal, they didn't specialize enough to compete with devices from folks like Symbol and Intermec. I think Sharp found that out the hard way with the 6000 and it's a lesson Olympus will quickly learn too.

boosalis

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« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2005, 12:26:53 pm »
I don't belieive this Olympus PDA really qualifies as being rugged, not for harsh environments anyway, at least if it is built like the Zaurus 6000L.  I was talking to a salesperson for Intermec and Symbol devices,  I had my 6000L and he had his Intermec device.  He tossed his device over his shoulder (reaching a height of 6+ feet) where it landed on the ground. The unit was built so rugged the fall to the floor was no different then lightly resting it on the table. And I got the feeling he does this little demo ten times a day on his sales calls.

So what value does this Olympus device bring to the table, its not a rugged PDA for field use, and it lacks a lot of expansion found on other consumer PDA's. Not to mention the keyboard and a high resolutin screen.  The verdict on such a product has already been reached with the Sharp Zaurus, Why Olympus wants to reapeat this experiment is really a puzzle.
Zaurus 6000 with expansion jacket

adf

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« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2005, 12:41:08 pm »
maybe they figure that if they advertise, place the devices on store shelves, provide support, and generally make it less of a mystic quest to find a configure one, they will sell. people pay for windows. why would they not pay for this if it is pushed in their faces, and alternatives remain unknown?
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clivel

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« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2005, 12:47:53 pm »
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The verdict on such a product has already been reached with the Sharp Zaurus, Why Olympus wants to reapeat this experiment is really a puzzle.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=64699\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Maybe because Olympus has a real marketing department, who actually intend marketing the device and maybe even listen to their customers.
Also, if you look at what is currently available to the majority of PDA users, most of whom have never heard of Zaurus, 320x240 with no keyboard is the norm. Only a few of the really top end Pocket PC devices have recently come out with 640x480. I recently skimmed a copy of "Pocket PC" magazine at the newstand, there was plenty of discussion about some of the "innovations" in the latest Pocket PC devices, yet none of them have yet caught up to the Zaurus.
Regards,
Clive

boosalis

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« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2005, 12:53:52 pm »
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maybe they figure that if they advertise, place the devices on store shelves, provide support, and generally make it less of a mystic quest to find a configure one, they will sell. people pay for windows. why would they not pay for this if it is pushed in their faces, and alternatives remain unknown?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=64700\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]


Its going to be relegated to the bottom shelf next to the 5.25" floppies as IPAQ's , Palm's and smart phones make this device DOA (Dead on Arrival).
Zaurus 6000 with expansion jacket

adf

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« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2005, 01:17:30 pm »
maybe so, but aren't axims making headway?
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clivel

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« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2005, 02:42:42 pm »
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I'd like to buy it.  I think I'd rather have Win CE .Net than Windows Mobile Pocket PC. 
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Microsoft believes in marketing through obfuscation: Microsoft took Windows CE V3.0, customised it, and supplied the customised version to pda manufacturers as the "Pocket PC" platform, and later as the "Pocket PC 2002" platform.
Then M$ released Windows CE V4.0, however for some misguided marketing reason, they also decided to call Windows CE version V4.0 and newer CE.NET. Windows CE V4.2 (now also know as CE.NET), is the basis for "Pocket PC 2003".
So whether you buy a device based on Windows Mobile Pocket PC, or Win CE.NET, you are essentially still getting the same crappy operating system.
Confused? I think either that that is what Microsoft intended, or their marketing department has been taken over by refugees from some govenment bureaucracy.
Regards,
Clive

kopsis

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« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2005, 03:28:48 pm »
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So whether you buy a device based on Windows Mobile Pocket PC, or Win CE.NET, you are essentially still getting the same crappy operating system.
Except that CE.NET is missing a number of "Pocket PC" shell APIs upon which many Pocket PC apps rely. Olympus decision to go with a version of CE that won't support many of the most popular Pocket PC apps pushes this PDA even further out of the consumer market. I don't care how many $$$ Olympus throws into marketing, as soon as people realize that they can't run their favorite PPC apps, it's dead in the water (at least in the US).

adf

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« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2005, 04:43:52 pm »
Maybe so. My experience, and I bet yours too kopsis (as you do gov't type stuff) is that people frequently buy dysfunctional crap at outrageous prices. this has issues, certainly, but there are more dysfunctional crappier gadgets being bought from "big-name" vendors. It just might survive.

I am, of course a bitter and cynical ex-Amiga user, who got to watch Amiga be eclipsed by windows 3.x. After seeing that I am willing to believe almost any ad-based depravity on the part of the general consumer.  
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**6000l  Tetsuized Sharprom, installed on internal flash only 1G sd, 2G cf

clivel

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« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2005, 04:47:56 pm »
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Except that CE.NET is missing a number of "Pocket PC" shell APIs upon which many Pocket PC apps rely. Olympus decision to go with a version of CE that won't support many of the most popular Pocket PC apps pushes this PDA even further out of the consumer market. I don't care how many $$$ Olympus throws into marketing, as soon as people realize that they can't run their favorite PPC apps, it's dead in the water (at least in the US).
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=64731\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
You are correct, CE.NET ( or WinCE 4.2) , does leave out many of the shell APIs, however I tend to think that whomever wrote the press release probably got confused. The press release mentions Windows CE .NET 4.2, which is the underlying OS of Pocket PC 2003, which is what they are probably going to use, I guess.
If not then I should imagine that Olympus has hijacked Sharp's Zaurus marketing team lock, stock, and barrel, which can only bode well for the Zaurus line  
Regards,
Clive

kopsis

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« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2005, 05:15:08 pm »
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... however I tend to think that whomever wrote the press release probably got confused.
Well, then the art department did too because the picture clearly shows WinCE without the PocketPC shell

Streamline

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« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2005, 06:48:18 pm »
OK enough speculations here is the deal. I spoke with the VP of marketing for this unit today. Here is the details they are about 30 days from launching this unit "if" all goes well with testing. There looks to be 2 units the R1000 and another model R1018 with the built in Wifi which is 60 days out. The estimated cost $899 for the R1000 $1049 for WIFI version. Acording to him after Sharp pulled out of the PDA market in the U.S this sparked a new line for Olympus to capitalize. No keyboard. He is mailing me more details on the product and I will post more details as they become available to me. He was very interested in comments on the unit as it is in the finishing stages.

Operating System = Windows CE.net 4.2
                              Embedded Linux 2.4.18 (qtopia 1.7.0)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2005, 06:50:39 pm by Streamline »
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boosalis

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« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2005, 07:44:47 pm »
The speculation sounded better
Zaurus 6000 with expansion jacket

adf

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« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2005, 08:45:17 pm »
er.... is this more or less a thousand dollar 5x00 minus the keyboard?
does it do anything special that , say, a 5500 doesn't, or can't?
$150 for wifi?
the extra memory is nice and all, and I don't know the processor, maybe it really rocks.but more hardware with better software for fewer dollars would be my suggestion here. Why no 2.6? surely olympus isn't waiting on sharp, or some overworked opensource developers?
why not Qtopia 2.1?
I hope I'm wrong, and this thing has some killer hidden features... but I'd take a z3000 +$200  or a z6000+ $400 over this anyday. In fact I got a 6000 and $500+ less.
You see where I'm going with this...

adf

ps.. it is nice to see someone releasing linux devices though.
**3100 Zubuntu Jaunty,(working on Cacko dualboot), 16G A-Data internal CF, 4G SD, Ambicom WL-1100C Cf, linksys usb ethernet,  BelkinF8T020 BT card, Belkin F8U1500-E Ir kbd, mini targus usb mouse, rechargeble AC/DC powered USB hub, psp cables and battery extenders.

**6000l  Tetsuized Sharprom, installed on internal flash only 1G sd, 2G cf

johnw

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« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2005, 09:07:31 pm »
Here is yet another reference to the R1000:

Olympus’s tough R1000 CE (or Linux) handheld
Sharp SL6000L Sharp SL5000d Intel PRO Wireless 802.11b CF 512MB Toshiba SD Sharp CE-AG06 camera Pocketop