More Choice In Linux Based Pdas And Smartphones

[rickh]

...
When I switch to the month view, for instance, it takes 5 to 6 seconds on my 3000 for the display to stop refreshing. In the same month view, switching to next month takes approximately 2 seconds, and the same kind of delay appears when you show or hide the date picker, etc.

Something's wrong.  

He is right. The problem was from switching from <some-view> in non fullscreen to the month view in fullscreen. There was the layout recomputed twice. It should work much faster in the next version 2.0.20 (available in some minutes) . I removed the double layout recomputing for that case.

And, by the way, KDE-Pim/Pi is already heavily optimized for the usage on a PDA.

z.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=71946\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Hmm.  Not really sure what's different about my setup, but I don't  have that problem.  I'm running 2.0.14.

R.
==

[lpotter]

lpotter,I already know this, the phone security thing (For those who don't go HERE) but how come, even if phone companies don't let you hack the phone's software, and even laws are made about that, tell me, how come there are GSM cards out there that can, with the help of simple software, make any device with a CF or PC card slot a fully funcional phone? Are there no security risks there? With that simple software, a Windows Laptop could become a phone, the Zaurus with PdaXrom could be a phone, the Zaurus with OpenZaurus could be a phone, a Pocket PC could be a phone...and all without security risks, wilst the other way around would be law breaking?

Please, elaborate on this, cause we need to clear this up.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=71440\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I don't know about the laws in your country.

[lpotter]

This is an awesome concept but as discussed in other threads, it smacks of vaporware. No one has seen a prototype (that pic is a rendering), the website is thin on details and they do not respond to e-mails. I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. There are supposed to be 20 Linux cellphones on the way this year. It's almost April. Where are they? I'm hoping at least one of them is close to the specs of this device or at least offers phone, WLAN and keyboard. I'm tired of carrying my phone, PDA & MP3 player around. Give me one device to rule them all.

Edit: Humorous anecdote removed
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=71557\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

They have been shown at trade shows, they aren't all vaporware, and I don;t have any control over when or if they decide to release these things.

Creating a phone is not like just throwing the parts togther and seeing if they stick.

[lpotter]

Thanks for clearing up the smartphone legality issue, lpotter. That reveals why Linux smartphones are so few in number despite the free OS and why Sharp dropped their phone. 

[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=71518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Linux smartphones are so few in number for a number of reasons. One being that until now, there hasnt been a readily available gui. It has taken Motorola several years to get their linux phone to market.

That is not why Sharp dropped their phone.

[lpotter]

position is yours.  Pdaxrom works very nicely on now obsolete boxes.

So does MSDOS, doesn't mean it's going to take over the world.

Quite a few of the z6000 users are in fact using debian via xqt and a chroot now (and taking a performance hit to do it through all that overhead), and pdaXrom users also chroot to debain, though most of 'em seem to use ice windows or xfce (both heavier than bb).  Are you contending that these are are either stupid or non-existant?

These users are far from normal users. They amount to a very small percent of the total user base.

Or that they are just being mindlessy geeky rather than that they are looking for a more complete system? The fact is handhelds are getting more powerful, and more people want to really make use of them as tiny computers rather than expensive notepads.If it were 100 years ago would you be yelling "get a horse? " 

Horses are very good for what they do. They are still a relevant form of transportation. They don't cause heaps of air pollution, and their fuel is less flamable and dangerous.

And, should I mention that if I want a qtopia that is newer than 3 years old to run on my z, I absolutely have to abandon support of any kind? (what kind of direct support from trolltech am I
entitled to now, btw?--besides having you on the forums?)

Trolltech does not support end users in that way. Thats the device OEM's job.

There is much more of an open
source community built around standard, open stuff like X and gtk... hence a source of community support. extremely limited support that sticks me with a 3 year old system doesn't really excite me, or, I suspect, anyone else.  I'm not saying the QT library stuff is worthless--I like KDE on my sid box.but... isn't there a lot of X going on under kde?  If Trolltech wanted to make an open handheld interface using X and qt--a kind of light kde (with the ability to run gtk apps) I'd be fascinated.

X on a handheld is overkill, IMHO.

On the phone issue I agree. A tiny very light device w/ a small screen and a few pretty buttons to work the pim suite is just the thing demanded by the market, and Qtopia can serve that market very well.  The idea of a pocket computer is rather a different thing, though, and if it is to be a linux pocket computer, then it should be opensource and work on standard community based toolkits.

oh, I get it. It's not really open source if it comes from Trolltech, hey?

Maybe you are contending that a linux pocket computer shouldn't exist? or that there is no market for such a thing?  ZUG would be a strange place to do so...

I'm not condending that at all. It's a very small niche market. No one wants to market to a small niche. They want the big pie, grandmother/teenybooper users that hardly know how to push the 'Send' button to make a phone call.

as to some of your other ideas...  a brick is easy to reset to a known state too... and so is any computer whose storage can be imaged. Qtopis and/or sharp really don't have a corner on imaging.

and the comfort of "corporate support" angle is Microsoft's pitch, If I recall correctly.  It is a big reason why so many buisnesses use ms products (not that it is necessarily the best choice, just the comforting one)

This is how big businesses work. It's standard MO.

[alan.lai]

SL-A300 layout
(As small/lightest as possible)

SDIO
USB host
BT
Wifi
mic w/ record button
VGA transflexive screen
No keyboard/No CF
Large internal memory
Fast processor, enough to play mpeg2 sm00thly
carbon fiber case or alloy (no plastic)
Long battery life

THIS IS MY MOST DESIREABLE PDA!
If it exists, I will buy half to a dozen, to give my relatives, good friends... etc
Price.... don't know, as soon as it's reasonable to u

[nilch]

This is the thing - like many of us - the market is even more so - extremenly divided on what constitutes a PDA.

The US market is still in the mode of PIM-ing as the main PDA usage - and henze the lack of interest in Keyboard based mobile tools as the Zaurus.
I for one want a PDA that is more than a traditional PDA - more of a laptop replacement -
-hence Keyboard must,
-USB must,
-bigger VGA screen must (4" was good more is better),
-faster better processort (desirable),
-good audio/video handling,
-longer battery life (must),
-more open and widely adapted toolset base (not Windows or Palm) for better availability of apps  for practical purposes (can live without X).

On the other hand a Linux smartphone is a different beast .
I would love to have a good phone with a nice GUI and intuitive PIM handling (many phones have such bad interface that its a regular pain trying to make calls), maybe a small Camera phone (not crazy about it),
and most importantly
Toolset compatibility with the PDA version would be great - so that PDA apps can be thinned down to fit on the phone with lesser clutter and simpler interface - that way increasing the integration between Phone and laptop PDA (I certainly dont want a all in one device) and vice-versa - get more detailed apps or a sync base app on the PDA to store the master data set while a little part resides on the phone.
(same way that a PDA now interacts with the computer, I want my phone interacting with my PDA) .

I would support Trolltech in this regard hoping that Qtopia Phone will have some sort of integration with Qtopia PDA in a seamless way. I would certainly then carry a Qtopia based handheld (PDA in our parlance)  and a Qtopia based phone seperately.

No other manufacturer seems to have such a combination  -  seperate PDA and phone device (not smartphone which tries to takeover a handheld role) with common layer of toolsets or GUI base it seems.

[kahm]

He is right. The problem was from switching from <some-view> in non fullscreen to the month view in fullscreen. There was the layout recomputed twice. It should work much faster in the next version 2.0.20 (available in some minutes) . I removed the double layout recomputing for that case.

And, by the way, KDE-Pim/Pi is already heavily optimized for the usage on a PDA.

z.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=71946\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Woohoo! No more double refresh!  That'll make make the software faster *and* more professional looking

[ev1l]

I'm not condending that at all. It's a very small niche market. No one wants to market to a small niche. They want the big pie, grandmother/teenybooper users that hardly know how to push the 'Send' button to make a phone call.

No one wants to make/sell, or god forbid, buy Sidekicks and Treo's?
I agree with most of your comments, but that's just a bag of horse (totally relevant to the transportation industry, too  ) crap. The market is segmented, and each segment coul be served properly with an adapted software suite on top of linux. The fact that it doesn't exist doesn't make it any less true.

My personal opinion of what a PDA should be is an Archos with a keyboard, a GSM/GPRS radio, and bluetooth (so you don't have to hold that damn thing next to your head)  but I tend to be demanding.

If someone made a Linux PDA that's functionally equivalent to a Treo, I would have bought that, but there isn't.

[tg]

I'm not condending that at all. It's a very small niche market. No one wants to market to a small niche. They want the big pie, grandmother/teenybooper users that hardly know how to push the 'Send' button to make a phone call.

No one wants to make/sell, or god forbid, buy Sidekicks and Treo's?
I agree with most of your comments, but that's just a bag of horse (totally relevant to the transportation industry, too  ) crap. The market is segmented, and each segment coul be served properly with an adapted software suite on top of linux. The fact that it doesn't exist doesn't make it any less true.

My personal opinion of what a PDA should be is an Archos with a keyboard, a GSM/GPRS radio, and bluetooth (so you don't have to hold that damn thing next to your head)  but I tend to be demanding.

If someone made a Linux PDA that's functionally equivalent to a Treo, I would have bought that, but there isn't.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72026\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I mostly agree with you. I have a feeling that most people at least on these forums are looking for a high end device that more or less replaces laptop as a primary usage - the fact that it may also do more traditional functions (ie PIM or phone) is a plus but this is not why most of us here buy these devices. I for example don't really care whether or not my phone runs linux. But I will not buy a PDA that does not run linux or some other type of unix - it's that simple. And lpotter is wrong in assuming that if the device does not "take over the world" or only serves a niche it does not make sense to make it - look how long Apple has been around and how successful they have been with their niche market - funny thing is now Apples seems to be breaking into the mainstream and one of the main reasons is that they got geeks all excited about unix os under a great gui (ok I'll agree that ipod and ilife do not hurt either but I would have never looked at Apple until OsX came out and I have many friends who feel the same way - as much as we all got to like ilife and other apple stuff the fact that I can open bash window is the real reason I converted to mac).

[nilch]

I dont know if most people really want a "convergent" device - a PDA and phone combined together.

Now I dont know what formulates any basis - but research and statistics show that Convergent devices are not that popular.

If you want a laptop replacement, you want a laptop replacement, do you also want your laptop to make calls (bluetooth or no bluetooth).
Just beacuse it can be done, doesnt mean most people want to do it that way. A simpler phones device is more attarctive (even if you hold it next to your head) rather then use a laptop to make calls with a bluetooth earpiece.

Damn, my Jabra bluetooth thingy has been lying gathering dsut. If I charge my phone once every 2 days, I got to charge the Jabra thing every day - thats too much of a hassle.

I would want a Linux smartphone too - but surely I want the smartphone to have intelligent PIM-ing functions and a little more - not to be a laptop replacement and do Telnet and VNC and tweak my HTTPD server too. while making a phone call.
Sorry, but no, thank you.  

[JohnKiniston]

I'm not condending that at all. It's a very small niche market. No one wants to market to a small niche. They want the big pie, grandmother/teenybooper users that hardly know how to push the 'Send' button to make a phone call.

No one wants to make/sell, or god forbid, buy Sidekicks and Treo's?
I agree with most of your comments, but that's just a bag of horse (totally relevant to the transportation industry, too  ) crap. The market is segmented, and each segment coul be served properly with an adapted software suite on top of linux. The fact that it doesn't exist doesn't make it any less true.

My personal opinion of what a PDA should be is an Archos with a keyboard, a GSM/GPRS radio, and bluetooth (so you don't have to hold that damn thing next to your head)  but I tend to be demanding.

If someone made a Linux PDA that's functionally equivalent to a Treo, I would have bought that, but there isn't.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72026\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I miss my sidekick  I went through three of them before I was forced to change carriers.

It was nearly a perfect mix of phone and PDA for me, Decent IM, Email, Web browsing and even ssh.

What I want is another mobile communications platform, Something that'll keep me in touch when I'm not at a real computer.

Too bad the sidekick never had real third party development support due to greed on the part of T-mobile and Danger, a linux/qtopia based device would solve that problem and open up the options for a lot of programs.

Wifi + Bluetooth + GSM? That'd rock hard. IR and USB would be icing on the cake, You could interface the device with almost anything.

Wouldnt it be cool to have something like zroadmap on your cellphone connected to your GPS via bluetooth and sending updates on your position via APRS?

I guess It may be possible to do this now with my 5500, a bluetooth card, a phone with bluetooth networking and a GPS attached to a serial to bluetooth deal.

[ev1l]

I guess It may be possible to do this now with my 5500, a bluetooth card, a phone with bluetooth networking and a GPS attached to a serial to bluetooth deal.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72062\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

You want to volunteer to write the software stack? Right now I'd be happy if my Z integrated decently with just my phone, just for the phone functions (callin, SMS) over Bluetooth.

[tovarish]

I guess It may be possible to do this now with my 5500, a bluetooth card, a phone with bluetooth networking and a GPS attached to a serial to bluetooth deal.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72062\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

You want to volunteer to write the software stack? Right now I'd be happy if my Z integrated decently with just my phone, just for the phone functions (callin, SMS) over Bluetooth.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=72063\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

actually I have compiled the latest gammu for the zaurus and i can make calls, sms, phonebook management through bluetooth and my t68i. All is needed is a nice qte frontend to gammu, something like FMA (float's mobile agent). FMA is opensource so someone with qt programming skills could attempt it maybe.

tovarish

[silvio]

For me a Zaurus CXXX is the best solution (especially if someone will produce 30Gb CF microdrives in future  ) - the size of the LCD could be a bit larger.

But I think there should be much more lower priced Linux PDAs available because they will enlarge the market for Linux PDAs.

A larger market is leading to more high level software and more hardware adds and drivers will be available.

regards,
Silvio