More Choice In Linux Based Pdas And Smartphones

[adf]

personally I don't use my cell. I think though, that if I did I would prefer the nice handheld/cheap phone combo to an awkward integration. If I had to have only one device to be a phone and a pda I guess i would have to go with something small and phoneish. I feel like a bit of a dork holding a 6k to my head playing w/ voip.  If I were to use it seriously i would need a headset.
Besides.... I wouldn't keep the ringer app and the phone network services running long enough for it to be useful, uynless it were specifically a phone first and other stuff second.  since my handheld gets used for a variety of things..some of them unstable, it would be a very bad choice to integrate vital communication.  to be able to do phone from my pda..to call out..is cool. anything else really requires a dedicated telephone.

[Storm]

You know, I really have grown to love my Zaurus in the last four weeks which I have had it, but to be honest with you, I would consider other Linux offerings...if...it had clearly distinct Linux functionality like the Zaurus has. In my short time with it, I have found the Z to be not only a PDA but a complete, standalone Linux box. I mean, lets face it. Palm is talking about their "next" (read "vaporware") version of PalmOS is supposedly to be Linux-based. But I can guarantee you that they will not give access to the underlying OS, nor will they give a command prompt.

As for Smartphones, I don't like a PDA combined with a smartphone. I do a lot of reading on my PDA, and the screens are too small on a phone.

Just my 2 cents,
--Storm

[seed]

more choice in linux handled held could definitively be a great thing. i think sharp need more competitors in linux handled held unit.But more importante than new hardware, is as allready said in the forum a BETTER software support and more open specification .

I think manufacturer have to know that release information on they device could made them more attactive and evolutive .i dont like the term linux pda cuz i think for only pim use , i better to stay with palmos or such of wich are design for only that purpose,can effort less porwerfull harware and be much less expensive  .i think linux is not going to replace palmos or wondowspocket edition for a while .people generaly dont need the more functionnality that linux offer and when it come wich more complexity... by comlexity i mean change peolpe dont want to change the way they act to thier pda or smart phone   , i prefere to see linux handled held only like  laptop replacement unit_ or people for power user  who dont like to carry a laptop. basicly poeple wich use laptop also use a pim device  and i think all of these can be esealy integrate in one for basic use of laptop (office,mp3,readind paper) (zaurs can almost do all of this), linux make it possible because it handle held version is not a shortcut of the pc version but full version (and optimised?)
in software support i would like to see manufacturer to realese more tool , optimised libraires and program and support the 3rd party i dont understant why sharp lost time in develloping very poor pim aplication when they could simply take part in developing process of existing aplication (kde/pim).yea i know that company dont really like open source thing but... i think more people will be interested if they see a sharp is take in opensource developement and this could lead to better aplication,less develloping time and a richard stallman more happy ... i think code optimisation  is very inportante in this kind of device ... with a well optimized program i think 400mhz of the zaurus are more than enought for the the next tree year (maybe more ram ?)

[speculatrix]

Why no fully opensource GSM mobiles?

It's not a well-known fact that many companies buy-in their protocol stack for GSM (this is the program which does all the GSM signalling, making calls, de/encoding audio, doing data, sms etc).
GSM is also encrypted, with the keys hidden inside the SIM, but when the call is running the sessions keys need to be available to the GSM call processor. If someone had those keys, they could clone SIMs, listen in to other's phone calls etc.
Many GSM phones' hardware will only be compliant with telco legislation in a specific country when run with specific software.

So, basically, the GSM software could never be GPLd, nor could the application have free run of the whole system. Same problem as some wireless lan cards, they're more software than hardware.

So, the problem with a linux smartphone is that you'd have to partition the system into two parts, a closed-source locked-down secure OS (or co-processor), and the open-source part. This makes it hard to optimise power consumption, talk time etc.

It's easier to simply have a GSM phone module which has no user interface at all, and is controlled through a tightly defined interface which makes it relatively secure; this leads to designs like the PCMCIA/CF data cards, or modules like the springboard phones that worked with the handspring visor.

Paul

[speculatrix]

don't misunderstand me,  I *truly*want* a C3000 with a more ROM/RAM, larger display, built-in wlan or bluetooth.

I think we have two choices, really.

We find a manufacturer of a device that we all really like, and start an escrow fund to get the manufacturer to sell it with linux on it (even if it's just a command-line boot, with working device drivers), so they get the money when the device is finished. I am thinking of HTC and the wonderful new MDA-IV, or the gizmondo, or others mentioned.

or

We start an escrow fund and offer it to Sharp when they produce a C3000 with extra ROM, RAM, bluetooth or wlan.

in other words, we *must* demonstrate the commitment to buy a certain volume of the product, to take the risk away from the maker of not selling enough items. Hell, if we owned the distribution rights, we could make a fortune. Or lose it :-)

Paul

[adf]

along those lines, has anyone considered working with novell/suse on tightly integrated handhelds?  It seems like they would have a place for such a device (like a handheld that ran selinux and communicated with novell servers through ssh2--transparency and security both!) in their enterprise model. All that would be required on the handeheld side would be that it ran an (updateable) linux.

[handheld-linux]

We find a manufacturer of a device that we all really like, and start an escrow fund

I have submitted the spec to two manufacturers and from one (Asia) I already have an answer. They claim they can develop all three models. But they are asking for the business model behind.

They ask
a. who is funding development (well, we need at least some adaptation and industrial design)
b. how manufacturing is done (from that I assume they are a Design House)
c. how warranty/repair is handled

for a. we need some purchasing association and/or some fund - and I have asked them how much they estimate.
for b. I have asked if they have a manufacturing site in asia
Part c. is IMHO lower priority - this can be handled by companies already importing the Zaurus to Europe (like us) and the US. Usually this is handled by overshipment / having a repair pool or stock of spare parts.

So, I am keen to learn on ideas on the fund / fund-raising approach. One example coming to my mind is the Blender3D foundation.

Nikolaus
http://www.handheld-linux.com

[B_Lizzard]

Great Stuff!!!

Could you please upload the final spec given to the two manufacturers?

Now, this is quite exciting! I assume that these PDAs won't be mass-produced and will probably be in small quantities.The funding COULD come from the community...If people are willing.The Blender3D associasion is a good model for fund raising, although, we need to see the total costs.
The thing is, If the cost is higher than the Zaurus, with comparable specs, not many will buy these devices.So, they have to offer something not currently being offered.Lower prices, better specs, I don't know.These are "Deep Waters", so you better take it slowly.A poll on the form factor wouldn't be bad either.Sticky it, and have it running for a month or something.

I vote Yopy.

[adf]

what about software for the low priced pda, and the microlaptop? Since qtopia seems the obvious choice for the phones.

It seems to me that there are really 2 current canditates to develop from:

OE and Debian-Arm

advantages/disadvantages:

OE is (when "stable"or locked) a good build system and has a (small) team focused on handhelds. Their software is optimized for tiny devices. Unfortunately it is still in development. (though given free reign  on a new device they might do something cool)  Maybe someone from OE could address the possibilities here?

Debian is much more mature has a larger software base and broader development. They offer a wider variety of easy to install user interfaces (including matchbox and opie). Unfortunately emdebian hasn't gone very far yet, there doesn't seem to be a stable cross compiler and dpkg makes for more storage use than does ipkg.

On the low end device, I think maybe opie or qtopia seem logical.  Does that imply a continuation to the high end model?

Ideas?  I really don't wan't to get stuck with weird sharpish software issues again.....

[handheld-linux]

Could you please upload the final spec given to the two manufacturers?
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The spec is attached.

I learned in the meantime that the micro-laptop should probably be separated into two models, one being sort of a high-end C3000 - and the other one a sub-notebook-mini-tablet (e.g. 6-8'' screen). But probably the same processor, architecure, memory, interfaces etc.

Regarding software I should add that the asian company says they have 4 years experience with Linux and Qt.

Nikolaus

[mussi]

I've been following this thread and the discussion around it and I'm not entirely convinced this stuff is the right thing, especially a cell phone with a real keyboard.

Actually, what I want is something like the QDA 700 from Qoollabs, which does away with all these funky buttons execpt the few ones for apps like calendar, addresses (coupled with the phone app) etc.

[ltrm]

Just looking at the specs and the PSU unit works at 110-240V.  This is fine for everyone in the US, Europe and most places but wouldn't it be worth running down to 100V so that these can be used in Japan also?

I'm just going be the PSU which came with my C860 so I don't know whether people in Japan can run 110V equipment or not.

[TsingTao]

The cry I keep hearing from both the Linux handheld camp and that of PocketPC is for more clamshells.  Adding all this power and special functions to devices such as these really makes them difficult to take full advantage of without a keyboard.

 I own (but will soon sell) both an HP Jornada 720 and an NEC Mobilepro 780 and they're great machines, but too big to be really convenient, and they don't really give you a tablet/slat option to work with.

 Sharps 'switchblade' (as I like to call it) approach with the C series seems to work great  as did the similarly styled Clie (though I've seen some that got twisted the WRONG way.  Ouch.).  I also think the Nexio detachable keyboard/screen cover has merit as well since it too allows you to use your device in a tablet or desktop style.  While I think the Gmate Yopy vertical approach, along the same lines as the Clie NZ90 , is better that the SL5500 sliding keyboard, I think the keyboard is best paired with a landscape layout and not portrait.

 But I'd definitely take a good look at a competetively priced linux handheld if it were SOME form of Clamshell.  But until then I'm happy with the Zaurus line...

[ev1l]

Just get Linux ported to the HTC Universal and I'll be happy. Throwing a HD in there wouldn't hurt, but I can live with SD cards for a while.

[adf]

that'd be about perfect.