Where Do I Get A 5600?

[Armagon]

Hi.

I have done some searching, and looked at the FAQ, but am dying to ask some questions (some of which are probably newbish, which is why I felt this post fit better in the General forum than in the For Sale/Wanted one.)  

I've never owned a PDA-like device, and after doing some research, I believe I'd like a Zaurus 5600.  [And if I can't get one, I guess I will go for a 5500.]

First and foremost, where can I get a 5600?  I've looked at several of the distributors in the unofficial FAQ, and they don't seem to carry it.  [Yes, I know it is discontinued.]  It appears that a few months ago, online retails offered 5x00s at deep discounts, but now they are hard to find.  

I should mention that I'm in Vancouver, Canada, and could run down to Seattle if needs be.  Surely there must be some zaurii stuck in warehouses, never to be sold or see the light of day ... needing an owner who doesn't want to pay much ... Sigh.  I will probably have to make a purchase over eBay (which I've never done.)  

I should also mention that I'm hoping to spend $200 - $300 Canadian, for which I want a Zaurus with WiFi, an SD card, and a card reader for my PC.  [Possibly there is some other linux-based PDA that meets my long list of requirements, but I haven't heard of it.]


Now for some more, sort of random questions:

If you had the choice of buying a refurbished zaurus or a second-hand one (with accessories), which would you choose?  If the price is comparable, is there an advantage either way [ex. not worrying about a damaged device on the one hand; not worrying about getting a WiFi driver to work on the other ...]

Speaking of accessories, which ones do I need?  I expect that I'll want a WiFi card and maybe a LAN card (but can likely pick them up later... there seem to be tons of zaurus accessories online.)  Do I need a screen protector and a carrying case?  Do I need extra stylii?  (Are stylii for different PDAs not as good for some reason?)

How can I tell if the 5600 I'm interested in has a processor that runs at 400 MHz without a special ROM?

Lastly, in comparing PDAs [not specifically the zaurus], I've often seen comments like, "Yeah, it's a good PDA.  I've had three of them."  Does this mean that the person is loaded with money and buys the newest model whenever it comes out?  Or perhaps that PDAs are highly fragile, and if you are slightly clumsy it'll cost you?

Thank you so much for your comments,
Armagon

[TsingTao]

Here's my soundbyte on the subject.

 First off, you mention you've never had a PDA like device before.  And you also ask what accessories you will need (more on that later).  The obvious counter question is what do you plan to do with this device ?  If you're looking for straight PIM (Personal information Managment) a Palm device of some type is probably a better fit.  But if you're looking for a device that can do basic PIM and you can tinker with and use your MAD LiNuX skillz on, the Z is the way to go.

 ebay is inevitably going to have 5600 on it sometime in the near future if it doesn't right at the moment.  And if you get tired of waiting there are ALWAYS 5500's available on there.

 Amazon.com is also someplace else you might try.  They quite often have Zaurii for sale.  Occasionally even 5600's.


 As far as I know ALL 5600's have a 400mhz processor.

 About this 5600 thing though.  It'll cost, but you might want to consider the 6000 instead.  It's got a better screen and a couple other features that people really seem to like.  Assuming of course that it's the native portrait /tablet layout that you want.  Cause if you're just looking for a good Z w/ 400+ mhz of guts I'd say get yourself a C-1000 or C-3000.  With the apearance of the C-3100 the 1k's and 3k's are hitting the 2nd hand circuit pretty strong at just about one year or less of age. The USB host is a nice feature to have...and the 5600 does NOT have it...

But that will likely mean eBay.  So a word on eBay...

 I both buy and occassionally sell on eBay.  I've only had 2 negative experiences during that time.  One buying, one selling.  But I've had about 100 GOOD experiences.  Just make sure you read the descriptions VERY carefully.  And if you have a question ASK (there's a button in most/all adds that will let you email the seller).  If he/she doesn't respond or gives you attitude DON'T BID.

 But to be honest, you're not too likely to get your unit and all those accessories you want for under $300 (US).  I sold a 5500 on ebay a few months ago with the accessories you mentioned and an IR keyboard and it went for about $300.  A 5600 with twice the horsepower would likely go for more.

 And if you buy used (from eBay or amazon or anywhere really) I'd advise you to expect to spend an extra $30 (US) for a new battery.  'The battery still runs great!' is a HIGHLY subjective statement...but you see it in many ads.  

 As for other Linux  PDA's...thus far the Z is the only franchise that has really seen anything like wide spread success.  I tried to get ahold of a GMate Yopy a while back, but missed it by $2 on ebay.  I've since been told that while the Yopy was kinda cool, it's probably not worth the effort of looking for one...as the community is all but gone...

 On the horizon we have the Nokia 770 Internet tablet, which isn't to be a pure PDA per se, but it will be running linux, and the (pocketable) Linux community seems to be interested in it. You might check it out a bit on-line...it's not out yet.

 There is also Unications 'Magpie PDA' (the dubious "Personl DREAM Assistant).  It's not out yet either, but it's specs look intruiging (though it's cpu is only going to be ~200mhz).  And since their website seems to be down about 1/3 of the time I think this device could end up vaporware.  Keep your eye on it though.

 As per your question concerning what to think about people with lots of PDA's...all I can say is...it happens.  I started out getting a 5500 which was awesome.  But then I got curious about the Pocket PC world so I picked up one of them, then I wanted to run a few specific apps so I ended up with a Jornada 720 and a Mobilepro 790. I've since sold them all and now I've got a C-1000.

 It's just kinda happens when you start getting into it as a hobby (most multi device owners buy at least a couple of their devices and accessories used...and often that involves eBay...you really can save/recycle a lot of money if you use eBay responsibly).

 Many people on these boards have multiple Z's.  One for regular use and one as a test bed, or they are simply lagging in unloading the older one on the heals of aqcuiring the newer one.  And at this point I should probably add that this website has a Buy/Sell/Trade section that you might peruse or perhaps even throw a 'wanted' ad up on...


 As for accessories...again, it depends on what you want to do...but I would advise at least a softside case of some type ($10 - $15 for a basic one).  A screen protection applique is always a good idea (it is a good way to protect resale value).  Stylaii really depend on how well you keep track of your original stylus.  I didn't notice my 5500 having any problem retaining the stylus in it's little silo, so if you are good at keeping track of things like that you probably won't need more.  Many people here like the battery extenders that allow you to recharge your Z off of 4 rechargable AA batts...it's not a must, but it's handy.  A travel power adapter is a good thing to have as well.  If you plan to be using this for PIM a second cradle for work might be a good idea if you have a desktop at work (or in your summer home or whatever).  When purchasing I/O cards (bluetooth, wifi, lan, modem, etc)  I'd suggest perusing and posting in here before you buy one so you can verify compatibility.  Look through the threads first though, many devices have already been tried and remarked upon...

 That's about all I got for the moment.  Wish you well and I hope this helps.  It's longer than I intended and slightly editorialised, but I'm sure Meanie, Speculatrix, Ragnorak et all will be along soon to correct my deficiencies  

 Take care!

[lardman]

How can I tell if the 5600 I'm interested in has a processor that runs at 400 MHz without a special ROM?

Both are 400MHz processors, but there are two flavours - the PXA250 and the PXA255. The former has a cache bug which means that it runs more slowly (if the bug workaround is enebled).

The only way to tell is to look at the output of /proc/cpuinfo and see what it says.

If I were you, I would be tempted to get something other than the 5600 (sorry 5600 owners) as, because not many devs have one, there are fewer 'ROM' options for them. It also only has 32MB of RAM, compared with the 64MB or most other Zauri.

The 5500 is good, but more flash space would be good; the c700 suffers the same lack of RAM and two types of processor issues as the 5600 (both released about the same time).

If you can afford it, I'd go for a C750/C760/C860 or if you want the portrait view an sl6000. (actually I'd get a C1000 now to tell the truth, but that's more expensive).

One more thing, the latter Zauri have a usb host which would be cool (not needing a CF host card) - these are the 6000, c3xxx and c1xxx machines.

Hope that helps to some extent,


Si

[Armagon]

Well, since TsingTao asked, here is what I'm looking for in a PDA (warning: long!):


The following list is what I’m looking for.  I intend to rate devices on a 1 to 10 scale (higher is better), and each category has a multiplier for how important it is to me.  

1. Cost   x 10
-   I am frugal and want good value for my money.  I’m thinking of spending around $300 for the system and attachments (media card, keyboard).

2. Reading  x 10
-   One of the primary uses of this device will be for reading.
-   I would like to be able to read .txt, .rtf, .html, and .pdf files
-   Support for .ps and .doc files may be nice
-   I’m unsure where I stand on proprietary e-book formats
-   I would really like of screen resolution of 320x240 or greater.

3. Linux Friendly  x 9
-   I need to be able to transfer files and settings and do development work from a PC running Linux.  I don’t want to have to boot into Windows to use it!

4. Longevity  x 8
-   I want a quality product that is not likely to break; one that is rugged and long lasting
-   I want a product that can be replaced (if stolen), such that I can continue to run all my software.  The replacement can be another of the same kind of unit, or a backwards compatible successor.

5. Writing  x 7
-   The ability to enter text quickly and painlessly is important [not that I expect it to be as easy as a PC]
-   I’d like to be able to jot down notes, draft e-mails, write poetry …
-   I need to be able to save what I write and transfer it to a PC

6. Coding  x 7
-   I want to be able to write my own applications for the system (and cross-compile it)
-   I would also like to be able to write code on the system (and interpret or compile it)
-   I’d like the device to be happy with people doing homebrew, and I’d like an active, friendly homebrew community to participate with

7. Battery Life  x 6
-   The unit needs to be able to handle 2.5 hrs of use while commuting each day
-   It needs to be useful for long trips
-   The batteries must be rechargeable; it is useful if I can have a second battery charged and can swap a dead one out

8. Audio  x 5
-   I want to play .ogg music files
-   I’d also like to play speex encoded files (which I think will be great for conference talks or books on tape)
-   I’m not interested in DRM-laden formats (.wma, .aac)

9. Network Access  x 5
-   It’d be nice to surf the web, transfer documents, do SSH, remote desktopping …
-   I don’t have any WiFi or Bluetooth devices, but I think WiFi is the way to go

10. Useful right now  x 5
-   If I can use it to do these things right now, rather than wait for / writing applications for it, so much the better

11. Games  x 4
-   I’d like to have interpreters for playing text and graphical adventure games
-   Emulators (SNES, Apple II, …) would be nice
-   I’d also enjoy being able to play (affordable) commercial games
-   I am not interested in piracy

12. Hackability  x 3
-   I’m a hobbyist robotisist, and would love to be able to hook my system up to other electronic devices (such as keyboards, PCs, microcontrollers …)

13. Portable  x 3  [Doesn’t count much because it should be a given]
-   It needs to be useful on a bus!  (This is where my laptop falls down – I’m too scrunched up to type when on a bus)

14. Anti-Microsoft  x 3
-   I’d rather not give MS any more money or mindshare



Thinks I don’t care about:
-   Watching movies
-   Taking pictures
-   I’m not a mobile professional; I don’t need to send e-mails while on the go; I’m not worried about scheduling or contact synchronization, and I don’t really need an organizer


---------------------

I figured [and I was quite possibly wrong] that I could go two ways -- with a PDA that runs games, or a game machine with some PDA functions.  

Devices I was going to look into:
- Sharp Zaurus 5500 [Discontinued]
- Tapwave Zodiac [Discontinued]
- Nintendo DS
- GP2X
- Palms and PocketPCs

I have done some poking into them (but haven't looked at them all in depth.)  It appears that the Zaurus is what I want.  I ranked it as follows:

-----

Sharp Zaurus 5500  [Discontinued]

Specs:
   206 MHz ARM
   16 MB ROM
   64 MB RAM (Program memory and data memory)
   CF and SD slots (and add-on cards)
   IrDA
   Stereo headphone jack
   Built-in keyboard
   Touch screen
   320*240 reflective TFT @ 16 bpp

   

1. Cost: 6
   It is hard to tell if I can actually buy one or not.  I’d probably have to get it off of e-bay.
   $325 - Looks like I can get a refurbished one with WiFi for $250 US at http://linuxwebtool.com.  I don’t know what the shipping is ($20?).
   $20 - 128 MB CF card
   $20 – Flash card reader
   ---------
   $365 [or less, from e-bay or possibly other sources.]


2. Reading: 10
   Has a web-browser; can read .pdfs and e-books
   Resolution: 320*240 – excellent.

3. Linux Friendly: 7
   I don’t know how friendly it is out of the box, and it sounds like there may be syncing issues, but with different ROMs installed it is fairly friendly.  I can certainly cross-compile from linux.

4. Longevity: 3
   I’m not even sure if I can get one now, much less get one later.  [Although, if I’m willing to pay a ton of money and import from Japan, I can probably get a newer model.]

5. Writing: 8
   Built in thumb-pad, limited hand-writing recorgnition with touch screen.
   There should be word processing software available – it appears that there are lots of broken links.

6. Coding: 10
   Can cross-compile on PC; can compile on system, runs python and perl!

7. Battery Life: 3
   Sounds like it isn’t very good.

8. Audio: 10
   Plays .oggs (out of the box!)
   
9. Network Access: 10
   If I get a wifi card (and have a wifi network), it will do all things I could hope to do on a network.  (ssh, web browsing, VNC …)

10. Useful right now: 10

11. Games: 7
   - tons of emulators, including NES, SNES, Apple II
   - interpreters, including ScummVM and FreeSCI
   - I don’t believe there are commercial games (and if there were, I probably can’t get them now.)

12. Hackability: 6
   Didn’t look too deeply, but it appears to be (hardware) hackable.

13. Portable: 10

14. Anti-Microsoft: 10

My final rating for it was 647, out of a possible 850; it averages 7.61 per category.)

The 5600 appears to be like the 5500 but better -- faster CPU and longer battery life.  If I could get it for a good deal, then it would be the way to go.

Armagon

[pgas]

I would also get a 5500 rather than a 5600
 
The 32 meg of ram will limit you more than the cpu speed. With a 5500 there are ways to use the whole memory as ram having the file system on a card.

For instance  reading big pdfs might be a problem, or you might want to do some on board compilation, you might want to run X, run a chrooted debian.... all these need ram.

You wil end up setting a swap on a memory card and your machine will then be very slow.

see also this http://www.pocketworkstation.org/c700-vs-5600.html

the 5600 is also discontinued.

[Armagon]

see also this http://www.pocketworkstation.org/c700-vs-5600.html[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100226\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Wow.  The c700 and the like are incredibly tempting.  Sigh.  I wonder if my budget can stretch that far ...

[raduga]

see also this http://www.pocketworkstation.org/c700-vs-5600.html[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Wow.  The c700 and the like are incredibly tempting.  Sigh.  I wonder if my budget can stretch that far ...
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100249\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Ye olde standbye fore cheape Zaurii:

[a href=\"http://www.conics.net/]http://www.conics.net/[/url]

C700 for $290 USD -
used, but you're buying from a (semi) reputable company,
so you may have some recourse against DOA.

Ebay has plenty of 5500s, a few 5600s, but relatively few of newer models.

The MAJOR distinction between the 5500/5600 and Cx0 / Cxk series are:

screen and keyboard.

If you plan to use it out-of-doors, the reflective, front-lit 5x00
are better visible in those environments.

Indoors, or in low-light conditions, the Cx0/Cxk are much better.

For typing/data entry, the keyboard on the C series are a vast improvement;
if you've small fingers you (may) be able to touch type.  Impossible on the 5x00.

All of these (except the 6000) have CF and SD ports, but no builtin wifi.
You will almost certainly have to buy a CF wifi card that sticks out the
top on a 5x00 or right on a Cx0/Cxk.

Also,  Cx0/Cxk users tend to operate them most effectively while placed
on a flat, stable surface; a table, desk, lap, steady palm of the hand

while 5x00 are more frequently used held in one hand, with the second hand operating. They also have a (VERY HANDY) screen-protective flip cover.

The C-series are slightly smaller than the 5x00.  the 6000 is rather larger
than the C-series (too bulky for pockets, in my opinion!)

..............

For Palm users, specifically, the major driving force behind 'getting a new PDA' in my observation and experience, has been dead/fried/crunched Palms.

For Zaurus users, it tends to be that people have too much money to spend,
and are too envious of the features on newer models.  Someone should start
a charity drive, for donating old (but good!) Zaurii to the needy.

My best advice to you would be, if you can wait,  save your money,
and buy a new C1000 (~ 400-500 USD).

If you can't wait, scrape together the pennies you've got, and find a C700 used
(~ 290 USD from conics,  more or less from elsewhere)

Either way, you're likely to get more out of your experience than you might
from a 5500/5600.

good luck!

[Armagon]

My best advice to you would be, if you can wait,  save your money,
and buy a new C1000 (~ 400-500 USD).

If you can't wait, scrape together the pennies you've got, and find a C700 used
(~ 290 USD from conics,  more or less from elsewhere)

[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100257\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

The C1000 is an active product [as in, not discontinued], is it not?  Do you suggest waiting just to save money, or will the C1000 be more widely available or cheaper if I wait awhile?

Also, Cx0/Cxk users tend to operate them most effectively while placed
on a flat, stable surface; a table, desk, lap, steady palm of the hand
while 5x00 are more frequently used held in one hand, with the second hand operating. They also have a (VERY HANDY) screen-protective flip cover.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100257\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Would it be easy enough to use a Cx/Cxk on a bus?  That's where my laptop really has problems -- I just don't have the elbow-space to type [Well, unless I move the laptop so that I can't make out what is on the screen  ]


Thanks for all the feedback so far, everyone; I really appreciate it.

Oh, I guess I'll have to ask another question.  Is going for a more expensive Zaurus better than going for a more mainstream PowerPC/Palm, and then putting linux onto it?  I am under the impression that progress in that direction is not far along, and that these devices don't have keyboards to compete with the Zaurii.  [Sorry, haven't researched them much.]

Thanks,
Armagon

[TsingTao]

On the subject of typing you are pretty well definitely better off with a C series.  The CxK models are the best with both good layout and tactile feel, but I think even the membrane style Cxxx models were better for straightout typing than the 5x00/6K were.

 Standing, sitting at a table, sitting on a bus,  lying down...for typing the C's really are more enjoyable...not to mention faster and more accurate.  I've ownd both kinds (5500/C1000) and that was my experience.  I actually have a very nice folding usb keyboard that I use with the C-1000, but I've only used it few times to write REALLY long emails since the KB on the C-1000 works so well.

 Also, if you actually WANT to 'thumb type' as you would basically be forced to with the portrait style units, you can simply flip the screen of a C series all the way back and do so...except you have more room between keys that the 5x00/6K would.  Of course if your hands are REALLY small that could actually be a bad thing...

 A word on your criterion of being able to use the device from day one...The CxK models are still light on apps written precisely for them.  Many of the older hombrews out there do work just fine...but there's a number of them that don't.  Your immediate  ROM selection is also going to be significantly wider with a 5x00/Cxxx rig (all of us are still breathlessly awaiting Cacko for the C-1000 and C-3100).  But that's today...I don't know how vigorously those models are still being developed for.  Undoubtedly some people still are, but I think a lot of the major homebrew talent out there right now is concentrating on the later models...

 I think most people posting here will agree the CxK models are definitely worth the extra money in power, features, longevity, and quality...it's just a matter of being able to afford them.

[DrSteve]

I own a 5600 and now really wish I had more RAM.  I run the fast kernel with my current ROM (stably, so far) and I've liked all the ROMs I've tried thus far (OZ/Opie, OZ/GPE, and Watapon, which is what I'm using right now).  Pocketworkstation (Debian on your Zaurus) runs but you have to set up a swapfile to get anything to install (took 2 minutes -- once it occurred to me -- so no worries there).

I must say I really like the long battery life (5h of use between charges doesn't sound crazy to me, but I don't use mine as a media player), and the clear flip-up screen cover, which IIANM the 5600 has and the 5500 doesn't.  But 32MB of RAM for program execution is a *real* drag.

I think the simple fact is that you can do the most with the newest models (duh).  The 5600's a really nice unit if you're interested in having a zippy PIM -- but after a while you'll find yourself turning green over what the fellas with the clamshells are doing with theirs.

Just my $0.02.

STS

[Armagon]

As I posted here [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=100583\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a], JR.com is selling 5500s for $100 USD, and I've purchased one.

I'm hoping all goes well, and that this'll tide me over until I can afford a better model.

Thanks for all your advice!  I'm sure I'll have more questions to come.
Armagon

[microsoft/linux]

I recently go tmy refurbed. 5500 off of ebay. i like it a lot. I need to get a wireless card for it, but yeah.