Xfce Default For Pdaxrom

[Chero]

Hi,

As I already mentioned, I believe that, no matter what the default WM is, pdaXrom users will always set up the Z with the window manager of their choice.

As for the crashing panel : it has something to do with the menu-plugin(s). This is a known issue, not Zaurus related. There are 2 different menu plugins : the one provided by xfdesktop (in the default xfce_4.2.2 ipk and the one that has been added as a seperate plugin (start-menu-plugin). The second has more features, but when adding it the first time, the panel almost certainly crashes. Bringing it back through an aterm always brought it back for me (with the plugin loaded).

All the things you can do with other WM's i've read about in this thread (icewm, fluxbox, ...) are also possible in xfce4. I admit, xfce4 is somewhat heavier than others, but I never had any memory problems (except when running xfce4 for several weeks without leaving - the 4.2.2 version has a memory leak and it shows after long times of use). I has been fixed in 4.2.3.2 and seems still fixed in 4.4 beta1 (at least, I haven't noticed anything strange so far).

I was never able to activate light-n-power settings automatically in xfce4 4.2.2. Or the battery-applet didn't do what is was supposed to do (like it is in most WM's from what I read in the forums), or it didn't load on starting xfce. This has been fixed in 4.4 beta1. I'm running a second panel (which has been set to autohide) where the battery-applet is running. It does the light-n-power job properly. To show me the battery status, I use the battery-plugin for the panel.
Most plugins that I've found to be 4.4 ready, work better than their 4.2.2 brothers and sisters. (cpu-load seems correct, so are memory and swap-status and others)

What I was planning to do :
- try to get the graphical login working (logout already works)
- clean the experimental 4.4 packages, add the dependencies
- create a "base" dummy package to install the base system through the deps
- create a "full-option" dummy package to install everything through the deps
- ask the developers to add a wakeup feature to orage, then we can talk about making xfce4 the default wm.

Now all I need is some time to do it all,

Have fun,
Chero.

[coreilly]

my vote is for fvwm... fvwm is a great, fast wm and highly configurable. however, it isn't very newbie friendly... which could be a downside for lots of users... and probably a reason why it will never be selected  

i like matchbox, its fast, light... no real problems here

i have played around with xfce before but not on the Z.. will have to give it a go.

[adf]

on the other hand an xdm login with wm selection options would be kinda nice....   and make remote xdmcp connections a bit easier (i haven't manged yet, btw)

[coreilly]

how many choices would there be?? 3? 6? 10? how would we decide?

[adf]

how many choices would there be?? 3? 6? 10? how would we decide?
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script it to check for installed wms. default would be 1 or 2.  you want to install every wm that runson your z? then that would be the number.


My concern would be xdm resource use. I really have no idea what it would use

[coreilly]

yah i meant default... on x86 its easy.... gnome/kde split with maybe one or two else...

i dont know either about the xdm resource. i have no problem sticking with matchbox... i prefer to keep my system minimal so adding more wms to piss about with isn't an idea that i like very much

[karlto]

As I already mentioned, I believe that, no matter what the default WM is, pdaXrom users will always set up the Z with the window manager of their choice.

I agree, but on the other hand it would be nice to have something a little more powerful as the default - matchbox/openbox is definitely on the PDA side, and somewhat hides the true power of the Z.

on the other hand an xdm login with wm selection options would be kinda nice....

That'd be nice for new users without much Linux experience.

i have played around with xfce before but not on the Z.. will have to give it a go.

It's strange how much difference the environment makes too - I've tried xfce and icewm on my laptop, but they just didn't suit me. On the Zaurus I find it ideal!

I admit, xfce4 is somewhat heavier than others, but I never had any memory problems (except when running xfce4 for several weeks without leaving - the 4.2.2 version has a memory leak and it shows after long times of use). I has been fixed in 4.2.3.2 and seems still fixed in 4.4 beta1 (at least, I haven't noticed anything strange so far).

I was never able to activate light-n-power settings automatically in xfce4 4.2.2. Or the battery-applet didn't do what is was supposed to do (like it is in most WM's from what I read in the forums), or it didn't load on starting xfce. This has been fixed in 4.4 beta1.

That's really interesting - I'm still running 4.2.2 and I haven't noticed any of these problems (only the crashing panel). The mb battery applet works fine with fbpanel, and I have xfce running for long periods at a time without issue. Now I'm keen to upgrade and get even better performance!

ask the developers to add a wakeup feature to orage, then we can talk about making xfce4 the default wm.

Awesome. Personally I think that alarms triggered by atd are best, as that's a nice simple, accurate, and reliable interface for waking up the Z (and other platforms).

[karlto]

i dont know either about the xdm resource. i have no problem sticking with matchbox... i prefer to keep my system minimal so adding more wms to piss about with isn't an idea that i like very much
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xdm doesn't actually run while the WM is running, does it? I thought that X respawned it when required (i.e. only when no session - maybe xdm is a session?)

There should only be one WM by default - but using xdm would mean that adding another from ipks would be very easy and would operate alongside the existing

[coreilly]

yes you are right karlto, but if matchbox comes default with pdaxrom then that is what i use... with my openbsd boxes i stick with stock (old) fvwm.. maybe that is why i lean towards it. i have always seen installing more programs as being a threat to security... thats the openbsd guy in me... though i have tried fluxbox/blackbox in the past few months which i thought were excellent products.

[adf]

There should only be one WM by default - but using xdm would mean that adding another from ipks would be very easy and would operate alongside the existing
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That's kinda the point...  ease of use outta the box.  and having xdm means easy xdmcp logins from  other boxes, which might be nice, if not necessary.

[jerrybme]

I'd like to see a login manager like xdm, especially for security reasons. I'd like to force login on resume. I've done this with xscreensaver but a ctrl, alt, backspace can side step this.

That's one of the things I like about OZ/GPE, however I keep coming back to pdaXrom because it works better  

My $0.02

Jerry

[clofland]

Personally, I just use Matchbox because that is what comes on the ROM, but the main reason is because the new ROM's come out so often I keep reflashing. If I had a year to stay with one ROM, I would probably take the time to test and migrate to a new WM.

REASON: It is just too difficult to get a new WM up and running. So many quirks. I imagine I would have to dig through about 5 to 10 forum topics and read them top to bottom, then install a half-dozen packages, and then spend most of a day fiddling with scripts and settings and such.

ANSWER: Instead of asking for "multiple ROMs" or changing the "default" why not just make a VERY GOOD IPK for each WM? If someone made a one click install (ie. an IPK with proper dependencie set up in a feed) for a desktop envirnoment, I would try it.

I realize that the big problem with developing good IPK's is 1. No one tests them more than once, and 2. They tend to break with each new ROM. I find that even when I report a bug in an install to the forums, I just get, "Oh, just go edit this script, or change this setting and it works fine," but no one will bother to fix the IPK. Very annoying at the next reflash, and very annoying for newbies.

If someone has a one-click install for one of these lovely WMs, I'd be happy to test it for them. I'll even test it more than once!
Just be sure to list any known issues. I'll be very annoyed if I loose my battery meter, cannot rotate, or find that suspend/resume becomes flakey.

[Antikx]

ANSWER: Instead of asking for "multiple ROMs" or changing the "default" why not just make a VERY GOOD IPK for each WM? If someone made a one click install (ie. an IPK with proper dependencie set up in a feed) for a desktop envirnoment, I would try it.
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Amen! I wish the same for pdaXrom and OZ.
I'm sure the main problem is that trying to get one WM tweakend and polished is enough work.
What if the dev's worked with people on this forum that enjoy getting their favorite WM up and running each ROM release? Perhaps involve them before a release comes out so that they will have time to get their WM working before the release hits mainstream. That way... New pdaXrom or OZ comes out and you have the option of installing an IPK for XFCE or ICWM, etc. I think that would bring more professionalism, excitement and usablilty to the ROMs.
I don't think anyone will expect it to be perfect right off the bat, but by working together  our english Zaurus ROMs could have the freedoms that out desktops do.

[scoutme]

Chero, you know I'll be there for testing and helping other users with xfce
these days I'm having some problems with current pdaxromreleases (sounds like everyone is giving everything for CXX00 models, while my poor C860 has been left alone with new arising bugs  )

tomorrow I'll reflash with beta1 (seems stabler than beta2), and I'll be here for testing

Hi,

As I already mentioned, I believe that, no matter what the default WM is, pdaXrom users will always set up the Z with the window manager of their choice.

As for the crashing panel : it has something to do with the menu-plugin(s). This is a known issue, not Zaurus related. There are 2 different menu plugins : the one provided by xfdesktop (in the default xfce_4.2.2 ipk and the one that has been added as a seperate plugin (start-menu-plugin). The second has more features, but when adding it the first time, the panel almost certainly crashes. Bringing it back through an aterm always brought it back for me (with the plugin loaded).

All the things you can do with other WM's i've read about in this thread (icewm, fluxbox, ...) are also possible in xfce4. I admit, xfce4 is somewhat heavier than others, but I never had any memory problems (except when running xfce4 for several weeks without leaving - the 4.2.2 version has a memory leak and it shows after long times of use). I has been fixed in 4.2.3.2 and seems still fixed in 4.4 beta1 (at least, I haven't noticed anything strange so far).

I was never able to activate light-n-power settings automatically in xfce4 4.2.2. Or the battery-applet didn't do what is was supposed to do (like it is in most WM's from what I read in the forums), or it didn't load on starting xfce. This has been fixed in 4.4 beta1. I'm running a second panel (which has been set to autohide) where the battery-applet is running. It does the light-n-power job properly. To show me the battery status, I use the battery-plugin for the panel.
Most plugins that I've found to be 4.4 ready, work better than their 4.2.2 brothers and sisters. (cpu-load seems correct, so are memory and swap-status and others)

What I was planning to do :
- try to get the graphical login working (logout already works)
- clean the experimental 4.4 packages, add the dependencies
- create a "base" dummy package to install the base system through the deps
- create a "full-option" dummy package to install everything through the deps
- ask the developers to add a wakeup feature to orage, then we can talk about making xfce4 the default wm.

Now all I need is some time to do it all,

Have fun,
Chero.
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[clofland]

these days I'm having some problems with current pdaxromreleases (sounds like everyone is giving everything for CXX00 models, while my poor C860 has been left alone with new arising bugs  )

tomorrow I'll reflash with beta1 (seems stabler than beta2), and I'll be here for testing

Really? I run Beta2 and it works great.

Personally, I kind of expect development to lean toward the newer Z's. After all, how much word do we hear about the 5500 here? I'm just glad my 760 (same as 860) isn't left in the dust completely!

Also, it doesn't really hurt to let those cxx00 users find the bugs first before the ROM is released to the rest of us.

I think the 860 is pretty well supported. I've had no complaintes.