Pdaxrom Activity

[kkazakov13]

Wow ... noone wrote anything here a lot of time ... no activity ... what is going on ?

I saw some guys that were active here, posting a lot in oesf/debian forum ... are we moving there ? is pdaXrom dying ?

I guess it will remain in the archives as very successful distribution ... but dead.

Almost no activity in the devel list for months ... this should speak enough ...

Sad times for pdaXrom ... this used to be my favorite distro so far (well, beta3 was the most stable x11-based distro I've encountered)

Maybe it's time to try debian ? ... seems things are going great there.

[Martin]

Hi :-)

Did you look on the pdaxrom.org site? There's a nice and busy roadmap on here

NO ... pdaxrom ist not dying ... I think there are many working Z units on the world ... now waiting for new pdaXrom release ... maybe / sure InSearchOf is the most busy developer in the last few month! THANKS to him ...

I hope a new testing image will come up soon (for my c860) doing some tests

Martin

[Chero]

Well,

I would not call it "dying" or "dead", but "sleeping" maybe ...
I just flashed my C1000 back to beta3 because it is the most stable X-release I know and I want to be using ...

There are still new packages being added to the feeds on a weekly base, so it ain't dead.
Debian has some benefits :
- I use two repos and can apt-get it all (almost)
- recent kernel with recent hardware support
- it works the same on the Z as on the desktop (and people feel "at home")
- it uses standard locations for libs and files so more packages can be compiled "out of the box"
- very active development (repos get upgraded almost every day)
There are some downers to it as well :
- broken packages
- no gui-s to change zaurus specific settings (not through apt-get at least)
- it takes up lots and lots of space

The downside of pdaXrom is the somewhat older kernel and the split up feeds. You need to use it for quite some time before you know where to get what. The good thing about is
- that it really is all there (once you found it)
- it needs less space (it's amazing how much packages you can install on 121Mb flash).
- it has a perfectly working "right-click" support
- it has gui-s to configure things
- ...

I still believe there are a lot more users than the ones you see posting here ...

I like debian on the Zaurus, but I wouldn't want to miss pdaXrom. My dream-team on the zaurus would be dual-booting pdaXrom and debian.

Long live pdaXrom !!
Chero.

[kkazakov13]

Well,

I would not call it "dying" or "dead", but "sleeping" maybe ...
I just flashed my C1000 back to beta3 because it is the most stable X-release I know and I want to be using ...

There are still new packages being added to the feeds on a weekly base, so it ain't dead.
Debian has some benefits :
- I use two repos and can apt-get it all (almost)
- recent kernel with recent hardware support
- it works the same on the Z as on the desktop (and people feel "at home")
- it uses standard locations for libs and files so more packages can be compiled "out of the box"
- very active development (repos get upgraded almost every day)
There are some downers to it as well :
- broken packages
- no gui-s to change zaurus specific settings (not through apt-get at least)
- it takes up lots and lots of space

- broken packages
    => well, that's not an issue for me - i compile everything i need.
- no gui-s to change zaurus specific settings (not through apt-get at least)
    => but you can change everything, right ? I don't use guis at all anyway.
- it takes up lots and lots of space
    => the space is not an issue with the microdrive 6G or with 16G CF.


What about the speed at all ? I heard it's faster ? EABI ?

The downside of pdaXrom is the somewhat older kernel and the split up feeds. You need to use it for quite some time before you know where to get what. The good thing about is
- that it really is all there (once you found it)
- it needs less space (it's amazing how much packages you can install on 121Mb flash).
- it has a perfectly working "right-click" support
- it has gui-s to configure things
- ...

I still believe there are a lot more users than the ones you see posting here ...

I like debian on the Zaurus, but I wouldn't want to miss pdaXrom. My dream-team on the zaurus would be dual-booting pdaXrom and debian.

Long live pdaXrom !!
Chero.

I agree on the plusses. However - I _really_ miss the newest and coolest things. I can say that pdaXrom Builder is not in usable state for me or anyone else who tries it ( except , as it looks , for InSearchOf ). It just gots broken on so stupid places!

This means that I _cannot_ develop for pdaXrom, even if I want to. I wanted to fix a lot of things, but I can't.
pdaXrom-latest for my opinion is not stable in any mean.

I'm also tired of messing so much with the core to make an OS running. I want to _simply_ use it. I'm hardcore linux user in the normal life - doing every config in the config files on my machine with slackware-current (always current), don't get me wrong.

I will try debian soon when having some time.

After this, there are to me 2 options:

1. Flash back to pdaXrom beta3 and update with my script and get my _really_ working system (but not that updated) back.
2. Keep playing with debian.

option 2 will happen if debian is a bit stable, I can run X on it, and few simple programs that I use daily. Oh, and mplayer with 640x480 support would be nice, as I have it on my beta3

[ZDevil]

No flame, ever.

About pdaXrom...

Martin: Don't you know that kkazakov13 is one of the pdaXrom devs?  

I agree, as Chero says, that pdaXrom is sleeping, as it has always been.
Perhaps it's my problem, but I don't want to sound like a pain. I just can't bear my Z getting  stranded in an indeterminate state of (half-)fixing after almost one full year of the formation of the new pdaXrom dev team.
True, there are the hotfixes, but still the hotfixes (mostly Meanie's wonderful work) are for the still very experimental r198/198 builds and not fixes for a final release. And new (and nontrivial) issues keep popping up.
The biggest thing that pdaXrom falls short of is the up-to-dateness of the system, including everything from kernel to shared libraries to individual apps. This of course can be remedied to some extent by the "contrib" feeds, as long as there remain a (small) group of ardent and loyal contributors doing all the (re)compiling tasks manually.
Then again, my experience is from time to time there were issues to get my desired program compiled, because of missing components in the toolchain, or old versions of the essential libraries (like GTK2 and QT -- rebuilding them implies a total reinventing of the wheel.), or too many missing/broken dependencies.
A couple of weeks ago I did a careful check of all the contrib packages in the pdaXrom's "Package Announcements" thread, and I find most of those programs are existing in Debian, with the few left which can be compiled easily.
And after switching to other distros (first openbsd, now debian), I got rather confused by the versioning and fixes for different forks. I know many of the tricks apply across the board, but I can imagine if I pick up pdaXrom again I will have to pick up a lot of hacking from scratch.
I fully agree that the biggest advantage of pdaXrom is its compactness.
Perhaps there is some fundamental difference between what hackers enjoy and expect and what ordinary users are eally looking for?

As for Debian/Zaurus ...
Debian indeed takes up a lot of space. Well, nothing comes for free, and the distro doesn't take that much space for no reason.  
The situation of broken packages is only transitory, imho. As the repos get updated frequently and regulary, and (re)compiling things on board is just as easy as on desktops, fixing the broken dependencies is simple a matter of time and effort (and contributions from the users).  
Documentation-wise, Debian users will never run out of references.
GUI system configuration tools? The gpe-conf stuff and some existing Debian packages already cover this.
Keybinding of mouse right-clicking: i've got used to the yonggun way of mapping the first three round keys in the bottom row as the mouse buttons. Yet I suppose it is not an insurmountable problem to come up with the same mouse-button keybinding as in pdaXrom (ask yonggun and cortez?)
Speedwise, I can't tell much difference between pdaXrom and Debian EABI, after testing and running those big apps (firefox, gimp, gnumeric, etc.).
Apt-get and ipkg are worlds apart.
What else isn't working? I have no idea yet...

[ZDevil]

- broken packages
    => well, that's not an issue for me - i compile everything i need.

Honestly (and a pity), the Debian toolchain is far more usable than the pdaXrom's. You can first apt-get build-essential, then apt-get build-dep, and finally apt-get -b source PACKAGE. Things work just like quenching your thirst from a drink vending machine...
New ports/versions for EABI? Easy and dirty. Steal any necessary file structure, control, postisnt, postrm, desktop file, desktop icons, customized config ... what have you from existing packages (e.g. ARM packages, pdaxrom and even angstrom), drop the compiled stuff in there. dpkg -b PACKAGE. voila.

- no gui-s to change zaurus specific settings (not through apt-get at least)
    => but you can change everything, right ? I don't use guis at all anyway.

Same here.  

- it takes up lots and lots of space
    => the space is not an issue with the microdrive 6G or with 16G CF.

A much cheaper 8GB CF will do the job just fine.  

What about the speed at all ? I heard it's faster ? EABI ?

No obvious difference.

I agree on the plusses. However - I _really_ miss the newest and coolest things. I can say that pdaXrom Builder is not in usable state for me or anyone else who tries it ( except , as it looks , for InSearchOf ). It just gots broken on so stupid places!
This means that I _cannot_ develop for pdaXrom, even if I want to. I wanted to fix a lot of things, but I can't.
pdaXrom-latest for my opinion is not stable in any mean.
I'm also tired of messing so much with the core to make an OS running. I want to _simply_ use it. I'm hardcore linux user in the normal life - doing every config in the config files on my machine with slackware-current (always current), don't get me wrong.

I think it is not what pdaXrom can't do. The key is always team work and project management.

I will try debian soon when having some time. After this, there are to me 2 options:
1. Flash back to pdaXrom beta3 and update with my script and get my _really_ working system (but not that updated) back.
2. Keep playing with debian.
option 2 will happen if debian is a bit stable, I can run X on it, and few simple programs that I use daily. Oh, and mplayer with 640x480 support would be nice, as I have it on my beta3

It is no zero-sum game. You can easily run both pdaXrom r1xx and debian eabi (with yonggun kernel) with uboot.
(mplayer also plays videos fullscreen in debian eabi)

[kkazakov13]

Martin: Don't you know that kkazakov13 is one of the pdaXrom devs?  

Well ... I cannot say that I'm a real pdaXrom developer - as I was _unable_ to do any developing. All I _can_ do is packaging stuff for beta3 - the most stable version for me.

It is no zero-sum game. You can easily run both pdaXrom r1xx and debian eabi (with yonggun kernel) with uboot.
(mplayer also plays videos fullscreen in debian eabi)

I don't want to run pdaXrom 1xx and debian EABI - I would like to run pdaXrom b3 and debian EABI. pdaXrom 1xx is in not usable state for me. Tried it a lot of times and there are still few key things broken.

Angstrom ... well tried this lately , too - same thing - a lot of things simply BROKEN. I know, I know, it's a beta, alpha, etc software, and the devs are working. But I don't want to lose all my time constantly trying all the distros to find any that works.

About mplayer - that's good news. Really. If this works, It can win my heart.

The other variant is to sell the zaurus and buy something else - probably N810 ... at least it comes with a lot of support (what support from Sharp have Zaurus???), and things that you cannot find somewhere else yet (say, Skype for linux for example). Don't forget to mention the built-in wifi, bluetooth, gps ... key hardware missing in Z.

I just hope debian will be far more stable than pdaXrom ... and, please - don't tell me that there's some active development for pdaXrom, because there isn't. Just see how often someone posts on the devel list of pdaXrom and this will tell you much.

[Capn_Fish]

I'd argue that pdaX is more moving in fits and spurts when people have time to do stuff rather than sleeping, but we're all entitled to our own opinions. I know I haven't done much of the dev work I'm supposed to be doing yet because I somehow lost the code I was working on (not that there was much done), and haven't been motivated to restart it yet.

As for Debain, I don't see what the big deal is. Outside of a huge repo of packages, pdaXrom wins.

R198 works fine for me (the builder definately needs improvement, though), so where are all of these bugs you people are complaining about? My keyboard works, I don't have random crashes, it's fast, and software builds/installs/runs fine. It even installs much faster/easier than Debian (I spent some 6 hours trying to get a working Debian install going, and have spent maybe 1 doing all of my reflashes of r198). The only thing I see as missing is BVDD (hopefully replaced-ish with an Angstrom patch).

Hopefully that wasnt too rant-ish and answered some quesitons or was at least semi-helpful

EDIT: Perhaps there are no posts here recently because a: It's the weekend and b: There are no issues that need posting about.

[kkazakov13]

My keyboard works, I don't have random crashes, it's fast, and software builds/installs/runs fine. It even installs much faster/easier than Debian (I spent some 6 hours trying to get a working Debian install going, and have spent maybe 1 doing all of my reflashes of r198). The only thing I see as missing is BVDD (hopefully replaced-ish with an Angstrom patch).

Well ... if that's all you need, you should be fine.

However, I want stable and working wifi, bluetooth. not to mention that I had real problems with the date loses and such ... not to mention that mplayer isn't pxa optimized ... not to mention that fbpanel was some kinda broken and things that just annoyed me ... why is so hard to simply have working distro? that's the thing I don't like about pdaXrom - not much active developers. Yes - okay, i'm a inactive developer too, but one day I spent 8 hours trying to do this builder to run and gave up. How I can contribute?

Anyway ... looks simply the things are frozen for now, which is bad

[Capn_Fish]

No problems with data loss here, and Wifi works fine for me (WPA worked as well the one time I tested it). I haven't tried BT.

As for FBPanel, just switch WMs to IceWM, Xfce, or EvilWM (a great choice!).

Things aren't frozen. InSearchOf apparently has the kernel work done and a lot of other stuff moving along nicely.

To contribute, find something that irritates you and fix it. Then upload your change to SVN. Or write docs, or whatever. I don't have the builder running, and I'm working on an all-in-one app to replace the GUI config tools and maybe the package manager (they're so slow!).

[adf]

No problems with data loss here, and Wifi works fine for me (WPA worked as well the one time I tested it). I haven't tried BT.

As for FBPanel, just switch WMs to IceWM, Xfce, or EvilWM (a great choice!).

Things aren't frozen. InSearchOf apparently has the kernel work done and a lot of other stuff moving along nicely.

To contribute, find something that irritates you and fix it. Then upload your change to SVN. Or write docs, or whatever. I don't have the builder running, and I'm working on an all-in-one app to replace the GUI config tools and maybe the package manager (they're so slow!).

Interesting conversation. I'd pretty much concluded that Beta3 based stuff was the functional state of the art for the Z--I'm not really interested in running most of debian ( pr r198, or Anggstrom)and having "sort of" functionality (I listen to music and watch video on my Z, so the multimedia stuff counts)  spent some time last night thinking about putting the microdrive back in the 3100 and selling both Zs for an N810--so far I'm not convinced it is worth the trouble; I suspect I'd get the n810 and find something at least as annoying as a Z annoyance...but we'll see

[Martin]

@all

thanks for those replies :-) ... now I don't know he's a developer :-( ... I read the post with the notes of the new dev team after my last post ...

I own a c860 and know someone who owns a nice c3100 ... but he uses original sharp image ... not able to replace because he is only user and needs a stable Z :-)

Hope to help and maybe I will donate some $ (€) ... is there a pdaxrom paypal acount for donating?

How fare is it away to get a first alpha / beta image for new pdaXrom ... yes I have read (seen) the roadmap table watching the going on forward of kerneldev an notes of InSearchOF :-)

Martin

[Capn_Fish]

My impression is that this release is to stop the alpha/beta cycle, so it seems kind of backwards to have an alpha or beta of it, to me at least. That's not saying that there won't be one, as it's not my decision. I'm guessing the stable release will be out in 3-6 months (don't hold me to that, it's an unofficial estimate), but I don't know for sure.

[ZDevil]

I should've said what was unsaid in the last post.
I didn't say that pdaXrom is not cool. I for one am still look forward to the upcoming release. Then I can dualboot both pdaXrom and debian and make full use of every MB of space.  
If different distros can boot on different media then I'd say they are not really competing with each other but just alternatives and more fun.
So please don't stop working on this great project!

[stupkid]

Are the embedded Debian binaries stripped? Just wondering how much space they take up and why they take up as much as they do.