ipk system is a pain in the...

[Anonymous]

I have just installed openzaurus 3.3.5 (which comes with opie 1.0.3) on my C750. This default initial install works fairly well. I then try to install additional packages from the opie 1.0.3 feed (which I have downloaded and placed on my SD card) but always run into the same following problem. (I am using mindbreaker - an apt choice since this is what opie/OZ is doing to me - app in the following example, but it is the exact same problem with other packages.)

From terminal:
# /opt/QtPalmtop/bin/mindbreaker
QuickLauncher invoked as: mindbreaker
Could not create application main window

From GUI:
Application not found
Could not locate application mindbreaker

My install method is as follows:
(From both a ssh terminal and a local terminal - same results.)
# cd /mnt/card
# /etc/init.d/opie stop
# ipkg install opie-mindbreaker_1.0.3_arm.ipk
# /etc/init.d/opie start

Everything is installed on local storage so I should not have any link issues (I think - for kicks, I ran ipkg-link and that made no difference). I also have compared all references to \"*mindbreaker*\" and they seem to match how working applications are set up and linked.

I\'ve searched around the archives, FAQs, etc and have seen others mention this type of problem, but never seem to find any answers (answers usually say \"try the latest feed\", well, I am using the latest stable feed on a fresh clean install). I would think installing new/additional packages is something that is done all of the time. Appreciate any insight into this porblem. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

What a waste of time.

[Mickeyl]

Right. We would like to see something better... dare to develop it?

[ccrandal]

Try reflashing the ROM.  The first time I installed Cacko Qt 1.20 ROM, I couldn\'t install anything whether it was in internal memory or on my SD card.  I reflashed and have never had the same problem.

I\'d say that maybe the ipk you installed was not meant for OZ, but if it installed then OZ\'s installer must have been able to open the ipk.

I\'d try the Cacko Qt ROM unless there\'s a compelling reason to use OZ.  I use it on my C750 and while it is not flawless, it\'s pretty damn good.

HTH,
Curt

[Anonymous]

No, I do not want to develop it.  I will go develop on the pdaXrom team, at least I can install apps on their latest release.  OZ/opie appear to be out to lunch.

[jorvic]

Cant say I\'ve had this problem. I can test this out for you and see if I run into the same problem however I have a sl-5500. Just tell me where you downloaded the application and can you post your ipk conf file. Does it do this for any other apps or just this one.

 
No, I do not want to develop it. I will go develop on the pdaXrom team, at least I can install apps on their latest release. OZ/opie appear to be out to lunch.

I think thats a little uncalled for and sounds more like a troll.
I\'ve not ran into this problem yet on any of the ipk\'s I\'ve installed. If theres a problem it would do better to try to work through it and discuss things wiht people who can help not flame. The OZ team has had little support from others and is doing good for the amount of people they have if theres problems with it working to help solve problems and discussion of these is a better route. If  everyone took the attitude you seem to be presenting in this post I\'m sure we wouldnt have a lot of applications or much of a linux community...

[jorvic]

 
I have just installed openzaurus 3.3.5

Just thought I would also point out that this version of OZ is in testing phase it is there for a reason so one shouldnt expect it to run like a production version its there because its most likely not compeltely stable and has some issues...

[Anonymous]

I was just returning the smirk that was given me.  No less than by the lead developer.

That is what gets me about open source.  The arrogance of a lot of open source developers is truly amazing.  I myself am an open source developer (and a software engineer with almost 20 years of experience) that believes in it 100%.  The only downfall with it is the developers themselves.  The majority of them do not realize that they need users more than the users need them.

This specific case is a perfect example.  The install process has to be rock solid for any release - retail, stable, unstable, testing, whatever.  A developer, or more likely a development community/team, will not get any valued usable feedback otherwise and will only be answering install questions and/or, at the same time, losing users out of frustration.  Also, for true development work to be done, if only eventually, the documentation on software releases and their corresponding hardware models, where to get proper items (images, packages, apps - build environments and SDKs are great too, but they can be delayed a bit), and installing these items has to be bulletproof and must be available at the time of the first release.  Also of great importance is that this documentation has to be kept current - remove out dated and wrong information.  I have to say, and I am sure that the majority of users will agree, the OZ and opie sites are really lacking in these areas to the point of mass confusion.  It is why this forum is so necessary and busy.  That OZ and opie even are still around, in my opinion, is due almost solely to the fantastic hardware of the zaurus.  Getting back to this specific case, it was posted in a Newbies forum and decently written and yet it still received nothing helpful (or even polite) and this was not my first post here or on irc to receive similar treatment.

This is not meant just to get on one Lord-like (I\'ve read more than a few of his posts) developer and I really don\'t like to rag on fellow open sourcers, but in the hope that other open source developers will think about these things and try to get the open source process moving along a bit more smoothly for both users and developers.

[Anonymous]

lead developer?!?!? Opie has no lead developer.

umm. I think you must be talking about commercial releases, not open source releases. open source developers dont have any reason to write documentation. We have lifes to live, and jobs to do.  Opie has maybe 5 or 6 active developers. we dont get paid, and we dont do this full time.

[Mickeyl]

Just for the records, my statement about ipkg wasn\'t arrogance - I meant it exactly like i said it. ipkg is a pain and we know about it and we would like to see something better.

Unfortunately, a package management is a non-trivial thing and ipkg is better than nothing, which is why we use it.

[jeffk]

I meant) ipkg is a pain and we know about it and we would like to see something better.

If you\'re looking for something better (in the future), you might look to the Gentoo for Zaurus project. I\'m a Gentoo user (formerly Redhat), and I can agree with you that ipkg is yet another binary package format with all the attendendant problems of dependency versioning. Lots of distros have reengineered their own packaging systems to do it like RPM, which isn\'t perfect by any stretch.

I\'ve been totally won over by Gentoo\'s Portage system, where \'ebuilds\' provide source fetching, installation/build instructions and dependency metadata. More appropriate for standalone PDA\'s Portage also has features for end-users to prepare binary packages from these source builds for well-defined targed environments. Dependency library versions, processor architecture, etc are all frozen into the binary package metadata, and portage offers to pull other packages in to resolve dependencies.

If Gentoo for Zaurus can eventually bring some of that effectiveness to the Zaurus PDA, and make effective use of host cross-compilation and gentoo\'s binary packaging features, you\'ll really have something there. If anyone really wants to solve .ipk packaging problems, get to know and hopefully love full Gentoo\'s features, then help OpenSistemas bring some of that to the Zaurus.
http://www.opensistemas.com/Gentoo_for_Zau...urus.715.0.html

[Hrw]

jeffk: There is enviroment for building packages - it\'s called OpenEmbedded and is easy to use (after few days of \"#$%#$%\"). The problem is rather with ipkg (the tool) which working strange.. some versions are better then other etc.

[Anonymous]

Right. We would like to see something better... dare to develop it?

What is the mean problem with ipks?

[Joshp]

I just installed opie-mindbreaker_1.0.3_arm.ipk  form over ssh and works fine.  Try this insted of stoping opie before install.  Install the package form in a shell and goto the \"Shutdown\" program under the \"Settings\"  tab and click \"Restart Opie\".  That is what I did and works fine.
Good Luck

JP

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the opensistemas info jeffk.  Looks very interesting!  Well documented too!