the Veal discussion

[offroadgeek]

is veal skin different from cow skin the way I think it is?  I don\'t mean to be a bastard, but I just can\'t picture wrapping the skin from a dead baby cow around my zaurus....

then again, I have a piel frama case for my 5500, so maybe I already have a baby spanish cow already....

[brett]

Ethereal:
Yes, I do some work for anokhi.biz

Offroadgeek:
Veal skin is used because it is softer and the hides generally have less damage than cow skin. Veal skin is used for the black, tan & black/tan cases. The crocodile & ostrich effect cases, plus other items - such as the cigar cases - use cow skin, though.

Best wishes

[VeeDubb]

Ethereal:
Yes, I do some work for anokhi.biz

Offroadgeek:
Veal skin is used because it is softer and the hides generally have less damage than cow skin. Veal skin is used for the black, tan & black/tan cases. The crocodile & ostrich effect cases, plus other items - such as the cigar cases - use cow skin, though.

Best wishes

Never mind that the way in which veal cows are raised is mind boggilingliy cruel and disgusting and should be considered a crime.  If you treated a horse or a dog that way you would end up in prison.

don\'t get me wrong, i love meat.  in fact, I occasionaly kill my own.  But I don\'t eat veal, and i try very hard to avoid meat that came from factory farms.

Veal are not \"baby\" catle.  They are some times as much as two years old.  They are grown, and I say grown not raised because their life is constant misery.  The are kept in small inuvidual kennels that are so small they can\'t do anything but stand or lay for their entire lives to keep the meat as tender as a babie\'s.  There is an electrified wire above their back, so every time they try to deffacate, they are shocked so they back up and defacate over the back wall of their cage.  

They are never allowed to eat solid food, instead they are bottle fed a milk substitue and protien slurry.  They never see the sun.  They never see another cow.

I will not buy one of these cases, simply because they also sell one from veal skin.  If you do work for them, I wish you would pass my point of view along.  i know that many others share it.

[wolfman]

Gee I think 99% of your post should have been in a PM and not in the open like this.  Hate filled statements or those that come across that way tend to end up in the trash can and ignored.

[padishah_emperor]

..shudder..

[clivel]

Gee I think 99% of your post should have been in a PM and not in the open like this.  Hate filled statements or those that come across that way tend to end up in the trash can and ignored.

I don\'t think that VeeDubb\'s message came across as hate filled, he was expressing an opinion. He believes that the treatment of calves used for veal is in-humane, and I agree.
That being said, calf skin (as it is called), is a byproduct of veal production and not an end in itself, so effective protest would be against the farmers, butchers, and abattoirs. Boycotting the leather industry would probably have very little impact.
Regards,
Clive

[braindrop]

veal shmeal, if its soft I like it.

[wolfman]

veal shmeal, if its soft I like it.

yeap I agree its just a food source not a pet anyway.  cows live their entire lives to either give beef or milk and some methane gas to help with global warming.

[offroadgeek]

for some reason this reminds me of South Park episode 605, where the kids calf-nap the baby veal... funny shit

[img]http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/605/605_image_13.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]

[img]http://images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/605/605_image_06.jpg\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]

[braindrop]

to continue down the of topic slant:
all life feeds on the end result of something else dying.

Except when people die we seal up the remains in a coffin thereby breaking the chain.

[VeeDubb]

to continue down the of topic slant:
all life feeds on the end result of something else dying.

Except when people die we seal up the remains in a coffin thereby breaking the chain.

As I said in my post, I have no objection to killing animals for food.  I occasionaly do it myself.  The differnce is that the deer and sheep I have killed to eat were not hidiously and cruely abused for their entire lives before I killed them.  On the cotrary, the 3 deer I\'ve shot were all quite healthy adults (and tastey by the way) and the many sheep I have killed (I grew up on a sheep ranch in Oregon) were all well cared for and lived short happy lives before I cut them into litle pieces and ate them.

wolfman, I did not post this as a pm, because I didn\'t want to.  My mesage is not a private one.  It is in fact, quite public.  The entire point of this kind of post is twq fold,

1.  To let everyone know about a product or company that is usefull to zaurus users.

2.  To give us a place to discuss those products and companies to help other in deciding where and how to spend their money.  I feal that the way in which veal is produced is deeply and fundamentaly wrong, and as a person who believes in doing the right thing, it\'s my responsability to make sure people considering buying from this company know just how disgusting the industry they support is.

If you read my post and still want to buy, that\'s fine, it\'s a free market.  if you feal that the way veal are proodced is okay, that your right as well.  I think that you would have to be sub-human to hold that belief, but you are entitled to it none the less.

[braindrop]

I think that you would have to be sub-human to hold that belief, but you are entitled to it none the less.

man I knew I could have thought of a better name than braindrop.  

but yes many people do feel the way you do,diversity is good. its all good.  

By the way, as a prioir farm hand, dairy cows spend great lengths of time in their holding bays but they do it for years so its not as bad but the time might equal it out some.

[padishah_emperor]

I can see people will start falling out on this thread if we dont tone it down a bit.  Also, I must say, it\'s no good preaching animal welfare etc if a poster then goes out an slaughters an animal in order to devour it\'s flesh.  Is it ok for an animal to live a \'happy-go-lucky\' life until it\'s final moments in terror, pain and fear? Just to feed a Homo-Sapien who could have got the nourishment elsewhere? It\'s ok to kill, as long as the horror is left to the last few minutes of an animals life? Fortunately we are on a slow path to outlawing this behaviour pattern here.

To quote another poster, I don\'t mean to be a bastard here but I find it hard to really defend killing on any level (butchering animals or dropping bombs on women and children), especially in an age where we don\'t have to. We should be a lot more grown up by now.

Ok lets all chill on this subject, it\'s just a case, buy it or dont. I won\'t, my reasons are my own. Let\'s not turn it into a debate about animal welfare because people beliefs or rights etc will be stepped on.


We all have a common interest which binds us together here on ZUG, and that is our lovely Z\'s.  Let\'s keep other subjects off the forum, please! This is NOT the place for it.

Alternatively, I saw a really nice hemp pouch for my Z at the local market which I may get today.

:-)

[offroadgeek]

Let\'s keep other subjects off the forum, please! This is NOT the place for it.

Actually, this is the place for it.  It\'s true, this thread has gotten off-topic with the personal opinions of several people (including my own, but I chose to express my opinions thru the comedic artistry of the South Park gang), but those opinions and discussions are WELCOME on the ZUG, as long as people respect others (ie. no blatant bashing, name calling, etc.)  Also, it\'s suggested that this happens in the off-topic forum, but that\'s not always the case.

I will split the off-topic posts from this thread into a new thread in the off-topic forum.

offroadgeek

[brett]

With reference to my earlier post, I have spoken to the supplier and he assures me that only Grade 1a Cowskin is used. Veal is NOT used and I therefore apologize for this mistake and any distress caused. The anokhi.biz site will be modified shortly to reflect the use of Cowskin.

Best wishes