Author Topic: SailfishOS on the Gemini?  (Read 1626 times)

Varti

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« on: February 15, 2018, 06:07:26 pm »
Planet has recently retweeted a post made by Jolla, the company developing the SailfishOS, where they are inviting everyone to their booth at the forthcoming MWC fair in Barcelona, Spain. Could this mean that they'll announce there a port of SailfishOS for the Gemini?

https://twitter.com/planetcom2017

Varti
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terryowen

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2018, 07:04:24 pm »
I will be incredibly disappointed if SailfishOS is what comes installed.

Varti

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2018, 02:47:12 am »
Quote from: terryowen
I will be incredibly disappointed if SailfishOS is what comes installed.
They have announced at CES that they'll ship with Android and, probably at a later stage as a separate download, Debian. I guess that, if Sailfish will be released, it will be available as a separate download too.

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petefoth

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2018, 04:56:00 am »
Quote from: Varti
Quote from: terryowen
I will be incredibly disappointed if SailfishOS is what comes installed.
They have announced at CES that they'll ship with Android and, probably at a later stage as a separate download, Debian. I guess that, if Sailfish will be released, it will be available as a separate download too.

Varti

I must have missed that. When / where did they say that Debian a: won't be available when the device ships and b: will be a separate download?

Varti

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2018, 06:02:05 am »
Quote from: petefoth
I must have missed that. When / where did they say that Debian a: won't be available when the device ships and b: will be a separate download?
This is just speculation from my side, I'm basing this on what Janko said in Charbax' interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQLawxkYyug...tu.be&t=787

Janko said that there's more work still to be done on Debian than on Android, and that they'll put the Debian release on the web. When I first watched this interview I understood this as that Debian won't be ready when the first units will be shipped and that it will be released on the web when it will be ready. Now that I have rewatched it it might be that he actually meant that the Gemini will be shipped with a preliminary version of Debian, and that a final one will be released later, or that their Debian distro will be released both with the units and on the web.

I'm sorry if I have generated some confusion, I might have read too much into what he said.

Varti
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depscribe

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2018, 08:14:55 am »
Quote from: Varti
Quote from: petefoth
I must have missed that. When / where did they say that Debian a: won't be available when the device ships and b: will be a separate download?
This is just speculation from my side, I'm basing this on what Janko said in Charbax' interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQLawxkYyug...tu.be&t=787

Janko said that there's more work still to be done on Debian than on Android, and that they'll put the Debian release on the web. When I first watched this interview I understood this as that Debian won't be ready when the first units will be shipped and that it will be released on the web when it will be ready. Now that I have rewatched it it might be that he actually meant that the Gemini will be shipped with a preliminary version of Debian, and that a final one will be released later, or that their Debian distro will be released both with the units and on the web.

I'm sorry if I have generated some confusion, I might have read too much into what he said.

Varti

I took it to mean that 3D video support will be a separate download, but that the machine will ship with Linux otherwise.
dep

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andrewl

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 07:37:38 am »
Quote from: depscribe
I took it to mean that 3D video support will be a separate download, but that the machine will ship with Linux otherwise.

First one that we know is delivered (possibly in Japan from HK fulfillment) confirmed no installed Linux boot image.

Planet said that they will be publishing an update later today for the linux.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 07:38:51 am by andrewl »

Varti

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 07:50:18 am »
Quote from: andrewl
First one that we know is delivered (possibly in Japan from HK fulfillment) confirmed no installed Linux boot image.

Planet said that they will be publishing an update later today for the linux.
I have invited that first owner here, hoping that he'll post here his first impressions.

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Charlie Stross

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 12:33:40 pm »
Planet's update #49 is out and covers Linux on the Gemini.

The device ships with only Android installed.

Gemini are going to provide a tool that runs on a desktop PC (Windows, Mac, and Linux will all be supported) that can flash a Gemini to dual-boot Android/Linux, single boot Linux, or single boot Android. You'll be able to change configurations as often as you want.

They have been making progress on device support in various Linux distributions, and show photos of a production" Gemini PDA running Debian 9, and also Sailfish OS, Ubuntu 17.10, and Postmarket OS (a Hildon UI based distro — similar in look and feel to Maemo/MeeGo).

They add, "Please note that although many functionality are already working (including 4G connection on Sailfish!), these are still early days and as such we still have to deal with performance issues, missing drivers, keyboard layouts and other issues."

Murple2

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2018, 12:38:16 pm »
Quote from: Charlie Stross
They add, "Please note that although many functionality are already working (including 4G connection on Sailfish!), these are still early days and as such we still have to deal with performance issues, missing drivers, keyboard layouts and other issues."

I would like to be proven wrong but this seems to tell us something important - 4G is not yet working in Linux and sailfish is functional because it uses android drivers / libhybris. This isn't good news on the open source front

andrewl

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2018, 12:56:35 pm »
Quote from: Murple2
Quote from: Charlie Stross
They add, "Please note that although many functionality are already working (including 4G connection on Sailfish!), these are still early days and as such we still have to deal with performance issues, missing drivers, keyboard layouts and other issues."

I would like to be proven wrong but this seems to tell us something important - 4G is not yet working in Linux and sailfish is functional because it uses android drivers / libhybris. This isn't good news on the open source front

It's more likely that Sailfish supports 4G because it was developed by Jolla as a smartphone OS.

Open bootloader and kernel is very good news on the open source front. It's now very possible that Gemini will become an enthusiasts hack tool which will have real benefits for linux users.

depscribe

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2018, 01:29:56 pm »
Quote from: andrewl
Quote from: Murple2
Quote from: Charlie Stross
They add, "Please note that although many functionality are already working (including 4G connection on Sailfish!), these are still early days and as such we still have to deal with performance issues, missing drivers, keyboard layouts and other issues."

I would like to be proven wrong but this seems to tell us something important - 4G is not yet working in Linux and sailfish is functional because it uses android drivers / libhybris. This isn't good news on the open source front

It's more likely that Sailfish supports 4G because it was developed by Jolla as a smartphone OS.

Open bootloader and kernel is very good news on the open source front. It's now very possible that Gemini will become an enthusiasts hack tool which will have real benefits for linux users.
First, I think Murple2 is probably deeper into this stuff than many of us are.
Second, development will hinge on how widely used the Gemini becomes. I cannot imagine vast development if they only sell 5000 units, but considerable development if they move 100 times that many. The industry suggests that tablets and smartphones are evening out and maybe declining, with people going longer between upgrades. Fortunately, the Gemini presents something that gives a person the reason to upgrade. Let us hope word gets out and that enough people are interested that a large and robust community comes into existence. Otherwise . . . well, I am old enough to remember IBM telling us we would have the microkernel OS/2 for the PowerPC real soon now. That was 25 years ago and we are still waiting . . . though now there is no PowerPC anymore.
dep

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Murple2

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SailfishOS on the Gemini?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2018, 01:45:33 pm »
Quote from: andrewl
Open bootloader and kernel is very good news on the open source front. It's now very possible that Gemini will become an enthusiasts hack tool which will have real benefits for linux users.

Open bootloader is potentially good news, it remains to be seen what exactly this means.
Open kernel means nothing. Anyone who uses the Linux kernel has to release the source, it's stipulated as part of the license. It is literally no different to any other device out there in that regard. Admittedly some big companies (including mediatek in the past!) have completely flaunted this and not released anything.

All that said, it is very encouraging that Planet Computers are even talking about this stuff! With the Gemini Linux is front and centre and that is excellent and commendable.


Quote from: depscribe
First, I think Murple2 is probably deeper into this stuff than many of us are.

Probably to an unhealthy degree. My life motto is 'if I can't install Linux on it, it's not worth having'. That said, I've never been able to adequately explain to anyone what is the earthly point of having Linux installed on a toaster. Normal I ain't.