USA Phone & Data Networks

[defunked]

I just got off the phone with Verizon, again.  The magic application form that was submitted (twice now I think) to get the Gemini approved for use on the Verizon Network here in the USA, came back as unapproved.  So I'm back to a data only device (no phone, no SMS) on their network. And of course WiFi works too. I find it mystifying that data works on Verizon even when the phone does not, but so it is. Maybe Verizon is not fully using LTE?  Maybe LTE for data and 3G for voice?  I **THINK** full spec LTE uses VoIP/SIP for voice.  Maybe I can find some other more functional country that would have me.

[Dixit]

@gymbo

I'm not sure why a European bringing an identical device to the US to try the
networks would provide any additional insight into the problems here.

Because if that European device works without any hassle on the Verizon network, then you know it is Verizon deliberately hindering its own clients.

You can't blame  Planet for that.

Then the logical conclusion would be to go to another network.

[Ifanafi]

I just got off the phone with Verizon, again.  The magic application form that was submitted (twice now I think) to get the Gemini approved for use on the Verizon Network here in the USA, came back as unapproved.  So I'm back to a data only device (no phone, no SMS) on their network. And of course WiFi works too. I find it mystifying that data works on Verizon even when the phone does not, but so it is. Maybe Verizon is not fully using LTE?  Maybe LTE for data and 3G for voice?  I **THINK** full spec LTE uses VoIP/SIP for voice.  Maybe I can find some other more functional country that would have me.

--------------------
Verizon's review and approval process requires more than an application or two.
Rather, Verizon requires stringent testing of phones seeking access to their network AND sales outlets.
Testing is done at their NJ testing facility (Verizon's old HQ facility) wherein each device endures crash-test dummy like tests.
The device's manufacturer must pay many thousands of dollars in fees for testing.
I doubt seriously Planet paid Verizon for their testing.

Ifanafi
--------------------
P.S. IMHO, Planet did not know fully the precise specifics of Verizon's network APNs.
There is no valid reason / excuse for the Gemini's Verizon APNs to lack critical numbers: 13 and certain specific frequencies.

[Ifanafi]

@gymbo

I'm not sure why a European bringing an identical device to the US to try the
networks would provide any additional insight into the problems here.

Because if that European device works without any hassle on the Verizon network, then you know it is Verizon deliberately hindering its own clients.

You can't blame  Planet for that.

Then the logical conclusion would be to go to another network.

--------------------
Illogical.

Verizon's network can identify uncertified devices like the Gemini and hobbles them to 3G and messes with SMS as a result.
That happens (not to "hinder" its clients) but as a result of a device like the Gemini lacking all their network's specific bands and frequencies for full voice and text functionality.

Fully functional compatibility necessitates that, at the very least, a phone device's APNs are exactly those of Verizon's USA network.
The Gemini does not have them all.

Verizon's EU? network probably and necessarily has slightly different configurations than their USA network.
Planet, I believe, probably assumed (incorrectly) that configuring the Gemini with same EU settings would therefore work in the USA.
Reality has proven Planet was mistaken (even if their mistake was not intentionally deceptive but rather a gamble they lost).

Ifanafi
--------------------
P.S. I appreciate you coming to Planet's defense. However, your defense is illogical and patently wrong.
I have been deep down the Verizon Gemini incompatibility rabbit hole and the evidence is clear (and presented in more detail elsewhere herein) that the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon US network. This backer and others relied on Planet's statements of Verizon compatibility which proved wrong (and, I believe, deduced by extrapolation from their very limited, short-term use of a Gemini in (Boston?) USA. RE: GSM vs CDMA, et al.

P.P.S. After six weeks of back-and-forth go-around over this with Planet Support, and in the face of missing certain bands and frequencies info that caused my Verizon SIM Gemini many dysfunctions, Planet eventually, reluctantly admitted the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon network, and said "sorry" to me (via email).
By then I decided to switch carrier and dropped Verizon so I can use my Gemini.

[gymbo]

@gymbo

I'm not sure why a European bringing an identical device to the US to try the
networks would provide any additional insight into the problems here.

Because if that European device works without any hassle on the Verizon network, then you know it is Verizon deliberately hindering its own clients.

You can't blame  Planet for that.

Then the logical conclusion would be to go to another network.

--------------------
Illogical.

Verizon's network can identify uncertified devices like the Gemini and hobbles them to 3G and messes with SMS as a result.
That happens (not to "hinder" its clients) but as a result of a device like the Gemini lacking all their network's specific bands and frequencies for full voice and text functionality.

Fully functional compatibility necessitates that, at the very least, a phone device's APNs are exactly those of Verizon's USA network.
The Gemini does not have them all.

Verizon's EU? network probably and necessarily has slightly different configurations than their USA network.
Planet, I believe, probably assumed (incorrectly) that configuring the Gemini with same EU settings would therefore work in the USA.
Reality has proven Planet was mistaken (even if their mistake was not intentionally deceptive but rather a gamble they lost).

Ifanafi
--------------------
P.S. I appreciate you coming to Planet's defense. However, your defense is illogical and patently wrong.
I have been deep down the Verizon Gemini incompatibility rabbit hole and the evidence is clear (and presented in more detail elsewhere herein) that the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon US network. This backer and others relied on Planet's statements of Verizon compatibility which proved wrong (and, I believe, deduced by extrapolation from their very limited, short-term use of a Gemini in (Boston?) USA. RE: GSM vs CDMA, et al.

P.P.S. After six weeks of back-and-forth go-around over this with Planet Support, and in the face of missing certain bands and frequencies info that caused my Verizon SIM Gemini many dysfunctions, Planet eventually, reluctantly admitted the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon network, and said "sorry" to me (via email).
By then I decided to switch carrier and dropped Verizon so I can use my Gemini.

By this

Verizon's network can identify uncertified devices like the Gemini and hobbles them to 3G and messes with SMS as a result.
That happens (not to "hinder" its clients) but as a result of a device like the Gemini lacking all their network's specific bands and frequencies for full voice and text functionality.

YOU also admit that they ARE stopping devices based on what device it is, and not necessary because they are incompatible as such...

Which was my point...

If a device can function on a network/carrier, although not on ALL their frequencies, why not let it? Yes, give the user some kind of warning that the service may be unstable and unavailable in areas where it doesn't support the right frequencies/bands.

And I would be surprised if there are not quite a few devices that ARE certified for Verizon that doesn't support ALL their frequencies/bands too... (I might very well be wrong, as it is based on solely on my rather limited understanding of the matter... But frequencies/bands seems to change quite often, and there has been 4G phones out there for a while, so it seems unlikely that there are not, at least older phones, that does not support all frequencies/bands that have been approved. And it would seem rather odd if they would then get revoked??)

[defunked]

I'm actually kind of shocked that the Gemini works on any CDMA networks at all.

That is because LTE is not CDMA.  With 4G/LTE, everyone in the USA is finally agreeing on an over-the-air interface.  Now if we could just get all the carriers to stop using UMTS, EVDO and CDMA in the older bands, and get them to switch there voice networks over LTE too, then the Gemini would work in many more locations. If you loose your data service during a voice call, your phone is switching it's radio to a 2G or 3G service for the voice call.  This little cheat allowed carriers to add LTE data service without the cost of upgrading there voice networks.

[Ifanafi]

@gymbo

I'm not sure why a European bringing an identical device to the US to try the
networks would provide any additional insight into the problems here.

Because if that European device works without any hassle on the Verizon network, then you know it is Verizon deliberately hindering its own clients.

You can't blame  Planet for that.

Then the logical conclusion would be to go to another network.

--------------------
Illogical.

Verizon's network can identify uncertified devices like the Gemini and hobbles them to 3G and messes with SMS as a result.
That happens (not to "hinder" its clients) but as a result of a device like the Gemini lacking all their network's specific bands and frequencies for full voice and text functionality.

Fully functional compatibility necessitates that, at the very least, a phone device's APNs are exactly those of Verizon's USA network.
The Gemini does not have them all.

Verizon's EU? network probably and necessarily has slightly different configurations than their USA network.
Planet, I believe, probably assumed (incorrectly) that configuring the Gemini with same EU settings would therefore work in the USA.
Reality has proven Planet was mistaken (even if their mistake was not intentionally deceptive but rather a gamble they lost).

Ifanafi
--------------------
P.S. I appreciate you coming to Planet's defense. However, your defense is illogical and patently wrong.
I have been deep down the Verizon Gemini incompatibility rabbit hole and the evidence is clear (and presented in more detail elsewhere herein) that the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon US network. This backer and others relied on Planet's statements of Verizon compatibility which proved wrong (and, I believe, deduced by extrapolation from their very limited, short-term use of a Gemini in (Boston?) USA. RE: GSM vs CDMA, et al.

P.P.S. After six weeks of back-and-forth go-around over this with Planet Support, and in the face of missing certain bands and frequencies info that caused my Verizon SIM Gemini many dysfunctions, Planet eventually, reluctantly admitted the Gemini is incompatible with the Verizon network, and said "sorry" to me (via email).
By then I decided to switch carrier and dropped Verizon so I can use my Gemini.

By this

Verizon's network can identify uncertified devices like the Gemini and hobbles them to 3G and messes with SMS as a result.
That happens (not to "hinder" its clients) but as a result of a device like the Gemini lacking all their network's specific bands and frequencies for full voice and text functionality.

YOU also admit that they ARE stopping devices based on what device it is, and not necessary because they are incompatible as such...

Which was my point...

If a device can function on a network/carrier, although not on ALL their frequencies, why not let it? Yes, give the user some kind of warning that the service may be unstable and unavailable in areas where it doesn't support the right frequencies/bands.

And I would be surprised if there are not quite a few devices that ARE certified for Verizon that doesn't support ALL their frequencies/bands too... (I might very well be wrong, as it is based on solely on my rather limited understanding of the matter... But frequencies/bands seems to change quite often, and there has been 4G phones out there for a while, so it seems unlikely that there are not, at least older phones, that does not support all frequencies/bands that have been approved. And it would seem rather odd if they would then get revoked??)

--------------------

Reasonable speculation that doesn't jive with reality and the planned obsolescence of cell phones.

[ehasbrouck]

I have a T-Mobile USA SIM in my Gemini. Here's my experience:

I already have a smartphone on a T-Mobile One (postpaid) plan. I was able to add a data/SMS (no voice) SIM for my Gemini for US$20/month after rebates and credits.

(1) Google Android: All functions (voice/SMS/cellular data) work "out of the box" with rooted Google Android. The SIM is recognized as T-Mobile 4G.

VoLTE calling and SMS sending and receiving over LTE work from the Gemini (Google Android) works over cellular data using the "T-Mobile Digits" app from Google Play Store and the phone number of my non-Gemini T-Mobile SIM. VOIP calls from the Gemini Google Android work with a separate SIP account and an Android SIP client.

(2) Sailfish:  SMS sending and receiving and cellular data work in Salifish. I don't know of a VOIP app for Sailfish, and don't have voice service on the SIM in my Gemini, so I haven't tested voice calling in Sailfish.

(3) Debian: Neither voice calling nor cellular data work in Debian on the Gemini. (WiFi does work, but only with a braodcast SSIS, not with a "hidden" SSID, and the settings don't "stick". I have to re-enter the wi-fi password each time I re-boot the gemeini into Debian.) There is a "wireless" tab in the "connman" GUI, but I can't get it to do anything.

Has anyone been able to get cellular data to work with Debian on a Gemini with a T-Mobile USA SIM?