Considering Sailfish -- is there a comprehensive howto?

[depscribe]

I haven't even fired up my Gemini for a few weeks now, finding the GPD Pocket a far preferable device for Linux and for docking to a desktop setup. But I hope to return to the Gemini as a phone/pda once things are a little farther along on the software side. It looks as if this means Sailfish.

(No disrespect -- indeed, praise and thanks -- to Adam B and Nikita and the others who have been working long and hard and well on Debian for Gemini.)

A couple of concerns, the first being how extensively Sailfish, as it exists and as it is envisioned, relies on bits of Googledroid. Specifically, whether it is possible to eliminate Android entirely from the device, or if Sailfish (as does Linux) required Android to be installed also. (The necessity of Android even for a Linux install would have been a dealbreaker for me and I would not have backed the project had this been made clear; alas, PC has not made much clear.)

Is there any working Gemini configuration that is Googledroid-free?

The second concern is whether there is a page anyplace that walks one through the switch to Sailfish in the way that Adam's git-hub page does with Debian? Lots of questions, particularly involving Wayland and applications, as well as of course a recipe for getting Sailfish installed and running on the Gemini.

Thanks.

[vader]

A couple of concerns, the first being how extensively Sailfish, as it exists and as it is envisioned, relies on bits of Googledroid. Specifically, whether it is possible to eliminate Android entirely from the device, or if Sailfish (as does Linux) required Android to be installed also. (The necessity of Android even for a Linux install would have been a dealbreaker for me and I would not have backed the project had this been made clear; alas, PC has not made much clear.)

Is there any working Gemini configuration that is Googledroid-free?

You can't boot sailfish by default (yet), however you can boot linux by default, and have the second boot as sailfish. In this configuration, there is no need for android. If you go to the PC site, go to support/firmware and use their tool, set android to 0 and linux to max. Sailfish uses libhybris to enable android device drivers to work, but has no google apps/settings/spyware/silliness.

The second concern is whether there is a page anyplace that walks one through the switch to Sailfish in the way that Adam's git-hub page does with Debian? Lots of questions, particularly involving Wayland and applications, as well as of course a recipe for getting Sailfish installed and running on the Gemini.

Yep. Meganerd has a git page which details a few things you might want to do. Sailfish is straight linux with a wayland front end. You can mess around with it the same as any linux. It uses systemd (boo), and I would suggest stopping/throttling journald (I only log critical errors in ram).


https://gitlab.com/Meganerd.eth/Sailfish-Development

I also found this page which has some useful stuff hidden away in a very long page

https://sailfishos.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS_Cheat_Sheet

Check out the sailfish site - there are community forums with lots of info as well.

[depscribe]

Thanks, Vader!

[depscribe]

You can't boot sailfish by default (yet), however you can boot linux by default, and have the second boot as sailfish. In this configuration, there is no need for android. If you go to the PC site, go to support/firmware and use their tool, set android to 0 and linux to max. Sailfish uses libhybris to enable android device drivers to work, but has no google apps/settings/spyware/silliness.

Going there, if I set Android to 0 it throws this error: "There is not enough space for the Android system, please reserve more space for Android." It demands that I give at least 4 gigs to Google.

[UPDATE] If I set it to this boot order: Linux, Sailfish, and Sailfish again, it gets rid of the error -- but downloading fails. Does the tool not allow a mere dual boot?

[UPDATE II] So I found where I can directly d/l the firmware, so I guess the main reason for going to the PC configurator was to get the scatter file, yes?

[vader]

When I did it, I left a small android partition just in case, but as it hasn't even been booted, I will probably at some stage wipe and give it all to linux. I did check and the scatter file says "linux_only", so should be valid. You probably don't even need the base firmware file, but if you download them all, then the mediatek utility should sort it out.

Let us know how you go - then I can backup and wipe android for good

[depscribe]

When I did it, I left a small android partition just in case, but as it hasn't even been booted, I will probably at some stage wipe and give it all to linux. I did check and the scatter file says "linux_only", so should be valid. You probably don't even need the base firmware file, but if you download them all, then the mediatek utility should sort it out.

Let us know how you go - then I can backup and wipe android for good

I plan to spend this evening studying -- I'd like to backup and restore a fairly elaborately configured Linux install, but I'm not sure that restoring is easy/possible -- and will dive into it tomorrow. Am a little wary because people who know a whole lot more than I do have broken their Geminis. And I'm still puzzled as to why I needed to select Linux, Sailfish, and Sailfish instead of just two.

I'll try it first without the base, which I gather is Android. I d/led it all, but as you may have gathered, I don't much trust Android.

If I'm never heard of again, it didn't work. (Or it did, and storm troopers from Google found me . . .)

[depscribe]

Let us know how you go - then I can backup and wipe android for good

Finally got a triple boot, the last two of which are Sailfish (there being no way to make just two choices, which kinda sucks, almost but not quite as badly as the Planet flashing instructions -- not much better than "try some stuff and eventually it will work," which is what happens here every time anyway). I have Debian and Sailfish OS and, sadly, something called base, which is Googledroid though not it its own bootable partition.

Anyway, it seems to be running well (thanks to Meganerd's page) but for a few little odds and ends:
-- I don't know if the phone works (no coverage here in the woods) but the SIM seems to be recognized.
-- I cannot for the life of me figure out how to close an app.
-- There's no Midnight Commander I can find in the repository, and life is hard without Miguel's chief gift to computing.
-- Potentially serious: when it goes to black and I close the screen, when I open it again it's in recovery mode.

But lordy, is it pretty! Reminds me just a little of the late, lamented WebOS. This will certainly be the Gemini OS of choice if 3.0 is anything near as good as this version suggests it will be.

[vader]

Let us know how you go - then I can backup and wipe android for good

Finally got a triple boot, the last two of which are Sailfish (there being no way to make just two choices, which kinda sucks, almost but not quite as badly as the Planet flashing instructions -- not much better than "try some stuff and eventually it will work," which is what happens here every time anyway). I have Debian and Sailfish OS and, sadly, something called base, which is Googledroid though not it its own bootable partition.

Anyway, it seems to be running well (thanks to Meganerd's page) but for a few little odds and ends:
-- I don't know if the phone works (no coverage here in the woods) but the SIM seems to be recognized.
-- I cannot for the life of me figure out how to close an app.
-- There's no Midnight Commander I can find in the repository, and life is hard without Miguel's chief gift to computing.
-- Potentially serious: when it goes to black and I close the screen, when I open it again it's in recovery mode.

But lordy, is it pretty! Reminds me just a little of the late, lamented WebOS. This will certainly be the Gemini OS of choice if 3.0 is anything near as good as this version suggests it will be.

Close an app
=========
Two choices, first long press on the running apps homepage. The tiles get an X at the bottom, or use the pully menu to close all.
Secondly, settings->gestures - enable the close app gesture. Swipe from the top of the screen to close the current app

Midnight commander.
==============
If there is a text version (like the original DOS version), you can probably compile it. I normally use the console, so I haven't really had a need for it (yet)

Recovery mode
==========
That sounds like the ESC key has been held down. I seem to remember that holding the ESC while booting boots in to recovery mode, and that holding ESC for 10 seconds forces a reboot. So if your ESC key is being pressed down, it will reboot (over and over) into recovery mode. Just a theory.....


I already love sailfish, but when 3.0 comes out I think it will be by far the best OS for the gemini.

[sbsshadow]

Some very interesting reading there

I take it that this OS cannot run all the usual apps like the Android OS, if that is the case, I think I would struggle with this OS as I now use the Gemini as my main device

[Meganerd]

-- Potentially serious: when it goes to black and I close the screen, when I open it again it's in recovery mode.

That is not normal behavior, not sure what is causing that sorry.

Some very interesting reading there

I take it that this OS cannot run all the usual apps like the Android OS, if that is the case, I think I would struggle with this OS as I now use the Gemini as my main device

It is capable if we had the license for dalvik but at this time SFOS dalvik is only licensed for specific devices. Considering Gemini PDA appears to be one of the flagship SFOS 3.x devices I imagine it will be available when 3.x is.

[depscribe]

-- Potentially serious: when it goes to black and I close the screen, when I open it again it's in recovery mode.

That is not normal behavior, not sure what is causing that sorry.

i'm wondering if the solution suggested by Vader -- that it's a hardware issue caused by the esc key getting held down by the closure -- is the answer. it might explain random reboots reported elsewhere (i think Adam B mentioned it happening to him or his at least having heard of it, in linux) and that happened occasionally to me, when i'd close it in linux and open it to a googledroid login.
UPDATE: while i haven't found a reason for the problem, i also haven't been able, through several open-close cycles of varying lengths today, to replicate it, either.

i've looked and cannot find again a reference i saw to sailfish applications that can be d/led from somewhere that allow X applications to run under sailfish and wayland. there are a couple X programs that i need and that have no analogue in the sailfish world. anybody know what these are and where i can find them?

[Meganerd]

I believe you can run x11 applications with xwayland. Ill give it a shot tonight.

Edit: I was able to install xwayland, still trying to get x running

[depscribe]

I believe you can run x11 applications with xwayland. Ill give it a shot tonight.

Edit: I was able to install xwayland, still trying to get x running

I'll be really interested to hear your results. All I could find about it was from here, which is more than four years old:
https://together.jolla.com/question/36877/h...ely-or-locally/

[Meganerd]

I believe you can run x11 applications with xwayland. Ill give it a shot tonight.

Edit: I was able to install xwayland, still trying to get x running

I'll be really interested to hear your results. All I could find about it was from here, which is more than four years old:
https://together.jolla.com/question/36877/h...ely-or-locally/

I kept getting a xbd keymap error at first, so I commented out the keycodes above 255 at
/usr/share/X11/xkb/keycodes/evdev

Then I was able to start xwayland server successfully.

But still having some trouble

[depscribe]

I believe you can run x11 applications with xwayland. Ill give it a shot tonight.

Edit: I was able to install xwayland, still trying to get x running

I'll be really interested to hear your results. All I could find about it was from here, which is more than four years old:
https://together.jolla.com/question/36877/h...ely-or-locally/

I kept getting a xbd keymap error at first, so I commented out the keycodes above 255 at
/usr/share/X11/xkb/keycodes/evdev

Then I was able to start xwayland server successfully.

But still having some trouble

Oh, my. Seems to me that an ability to run X11 applications under Sailfish/Wayland would be crucial to its success and adoption. (In my estimation, more so than the ability to run Android applications -- that "feature" certainly didn't save Blackberry OS 10.) Alternately, a quick and easy way to recompile for Gemini/Sailfish/Wayland. For example, I use ProtonMail, which can be a real pain unless one uses a dedicated application. The one I typically use is this: https://github.com/protonmail-desktop/application

I'll need to impose on Vader to get from him a sense of how I can recompile this for Sailfish -- along, I suppose, with some recipe for making an RPM out of the results so that the package manager will know it's installed. (I hope that by now this matters -- I haven't used a Redhat package system for close to 20 years, and its shortcomings led me to switch to a Debian derivative, which is very good at keeping track of what's installed and what isn't.)

Just now another issue: I opened the "People" app to see if there is a recipe for importing contacts from my SIM card. The SIM card is not listed among the places whence contacts can be brought in. But, weirdly, the names of all those contacts already populate the application -- but their details do not. Is this a symptom of the dreaded X25/X27 SIM card problem?