How likely is Android 8 really?

[bloblo]

I am no expert on this but

You're just reiterating my point. Google will definitely not provide updates for Android 7 as long as Android 9. It's that simple. No need to talk around it. Shipping with an outdated android right from the start simply shortens the life of a device, if you care about security. (and as a special case, a proper Android 8 Treble build would in contrast extremely increase it, even if Planet Computers dropped support at some point - since it should make a really longterm-maintained custom ROM release much easier)

[graynada]

I am no expert on this but

You're just reiterating my point. Google will definitely not provide updates for Android 7 as long as Android 9. It's that simple. No need to talk around it. Shipping with an outdated android right from the start simply shortens the life of a device, if you care about security. (and as a special case, a proper Android 8 Treble build would in contrast extremely increase it, even if Planet Computers dropped support at some point - since it should make a really longterm-maintained custom ROM release much easier)

They will and they do. They know the difficulties manufacturers have moving some let alone all of their devices across to a new version of Android. As I said before it is not in Google's interest for there to be a security issue left unpatched in the wild for any Android version. Loss of confidence in the security of a product is so easy achieve and difficult to regain and would have knock effects for years. Android 7 will continue to receive updates for a long while yet. I bought my Gemini expecting 7 with no guarantees of 8,much like I would have done from any other manufacturer so if I get 8 it will be a bonus (unless of course I don't like the new features) otherwise I'm very confident 7 will serve me  well for the avarage 2 years I use a device.

[wheel_deal]

Here's an editorial from Ars Technica that is unsparingly critical of Google's abysmal history of keeping Android patched:

Waiting for Android’s inevitable security Armageddon: Android's update strategy doesn't scale, and that's recipe for disaster.

The context of the article was one in which less than three percent of Android handsets would receive a crucial security update to fix a critical bug. Yes, the editorial was written three years ago, but the situation is almost as bad today. Indeed, Computerworld contributing editor JR Raphael recently lamented BlackBerry's misleading claims about the Android security of its flagship phones. Regarding the lackadaisical update situation on both the KeyOne and Key2, Raphael wrote,

[blockquote]"Even if you set aside the feature additions and interface improvements introduced with most major Android releases, operating system updates contain a significant number of foundational fixes and security-oriented enhancements — things like the tightened-down APIs . . . strengthened backup data encryption, and emphasis on steering apps toward secure web transmissions included in the upcoming Android P update."[/blockquote]
The manifest lack of proper support for Android was a major factor in my decision not to buy the current Gemini PDA. If the Gemini 2.0 has similar shortcomings, I'll likely look elsewhere.

Best regards,
Brian

[Notime2d8]

Well I think i'll go ahead and order mines now. I actually found new MT6797 devices with Oreo from the factory so ports should be easy with file swapping or an official Oreo for the Gemini may be coming soon. Then mainline support is picking up pace. Most of us are using old devices for years. We want something that is either perfect or that we can maintain ourselves.

[inmontanis]

The Huawei

- runs Android 8
- was ordered in February and received in February
- is EUR 350 cheaper and came with its accessories (I am STILL waiting on the ones for the Gemini)

- has no built-in keyboard I think? So a completely unfair comparison.

Some months before I pre-ordered the Gemini, I pre-ordered the Red Hydrogen (shipping is now said to be in October). More than twice as expensive and of course completely different to the Gemini, but if we want another unfair comparision, the Gemini is a bargain then ;-)

Every update I did on my iPhone made thinks worse, I stopped updating a long time ago and regretted every time I installed one. So I think I will absolutely have no problems with not having a newer version of Android on my Gemini.

[speculatrix]

When the Gemini was first discovered to be Mediatek based I nearly groaned out loud, I knew it would become a significant pain point.

The key thing we need is a good kernel, ideally with source so we can rebuild it and patch it. Unfortunately we know Mediatek are serial GPL violators and even if they do release source it might not match the kernel binaries.
In my experience their code is low quality and can't be used with a modern kernel - I stupidly bought an 802.11ac Wi-Fi adaptor that claimed Linux compatibility, but their driver was for an ancient kernel, and attempting to compile it gave so many warnings I had to turn them all off in gcc! That adaptor has sat gathering dust in a drawer for most of its life

And yet I still bought a Gemini. Fortunately Google Play Services is a core part of android which can be upgraded  along with most system apps. We can also unlock the bootloader and abuse root to hack the system if needed.

That all said, yes, I want to see a plan to move to Android P. I too want security updates, new features, more modular system, newer kernel etc.
I hope Planet continue to make sales so that they gave the revenue stream to be able to afford to do this.

[bloblo]

They will and they do.

What? I think you may have skipped over some of the words I wrote. Why would you ever assume an older Android version would get the same length of updates as a newer one? If that was the case, Google would still be shipping Android security updates for Android 2 today. (Newsflash: they aren't)

[graynada]

They will and they do.

What? Did you even read what I said? Why would you assume an older Android version would get the same length of updates as a newer one? If that was the case, Google would still be shipping Android security updates for Android 2 today. (Newsflash: they aren't)

I obviously didn't mean for all Android versions but they do for 7 which is obviously the area of our concern.

[bloblo]

I obviously didn't mean for all Android versions but they do for 7 which is obviously the area of our concern.

Do what for 7? Ship as many updates in the future for as long as Android 9 gets them? I highly doubt it, and unless you have a statement from Google that confirms those plans, I would go as far as to say that is nonsense. (and even then I wouldn't be convinced Google actually follows through with it. There's a reason the software world moves on, and I'm pretty sure Android 9 already has new security hardening features today that won't be backported)

[graynada]

I obviously didn't mean for all Android versions but they do for 7 which is obviously the area of our concern.

Do what for 7? Ship as many updates in the future for as long as Android 9 gets them? I highly doubt it, and unless you have a statement from Google that confirms those plans, I would go as far as to say that is nonsense. (and even then I wouldn't be convinced Google actually follows through with it. There's a reason the software world moves on, and I'm pretty sure Android 9 already has new security hardening features today that won't be backported)

No obviously there will be a point where security updates continue for 9 ,and 10 and 11 and maybe even 12 at that point and stop for 7 but within the lifetime of this machine (2 years on average I would suggest) I would predict we will be fine.

BTW I have 8 on my WileyFox and I'm finding it a bit of a pain. The settings menu seems way less intuitive and it's not playing nicely with dual SIM.

[bloblo]

You're going to throw away a 700 bucks device after 2 years? For a flagship-priced device, two years is about the barely acceptable minimum for patch support, not actually good or expected. That is literally the entire point of this thread. Being possibly stuck on an outdated Android right at launch is really not good or anything we ought not to complain about, and I think you should stop pretending it is - or that it wouldn't have any notable impact on the lifetime of the device, because it will. We can argue about how big exactly it is gonna be with nobody being able to predict that, but the fact is that it will make years of difference, whether you like it or not. (And I don't like it)

[graynada]

You're going to throw away a 700 bucks device after 2 years? For a flagship-priced device, two years is about the barely acceptable minimum for patch support, not actually good or expected. That is literally the entire point of this thread. Being possibly stuck on an outdated Android right at launch is really not good or anything we ought not to complain about, and I think you should stop pretending it is - or that it wouldn't have any notable impact on the lifetime of the device, because it will. We can argue about how big exactly it is gonna be with nobody being able to predict that, but the fact is that it will make years of difference, whether you like it or not. (And I don't like it)

I,'ve never had a phone for more than 2 years and i'm not sure I know anyone who does. When I bought this device it was advertised as coming with Android 7 with no promise to upgrade it therefore when I parted with my $500 I had made my choice I was happy with the fact that I have no guarantees of getting 8. I personally don't see I have anything to complain about, it was all upfront.

The question of this thread is will we get 8? Maybe, but I don't think any of us know for certain that we will. But we got what we were promised.

[gymbo]

I,'ve never had a phone for more than 2 years and i'm not sure I know anyone who does. When I bought this device it was advertised as coming with Android 7 with no promise to upgrade it therefore when I parted with my $500 I had made my choice I was happy with the fact that I have no guarantees of getting 8. I personally don't see I have anything to complain about, it was all upfront.

The question of this thread is will we get 8? Maybe, but I don't think any of us know for certain that we will. But we got what we were promised.

Well, I've been using the Nokia Communicators since Nokia 9500 (and then E90 and E7...)*, and people here have been reporting that they have been using Psion 5MX as their "DEVICE" until getting the Gemini, so a lot of people here have obviously been using their phone/devices for more than 2 years...

So even though I might agree that 2 years is usual for the "lifetime" of a phone, that might be wrong in the case for the average Gemini owner. So wanting support/update for more than 2 years would be essential (or at least desirable) for many Gemini owners...

* (I also, prior to the Nokia 9500, used a Psion 5MX until the cable broke, and was connecting it with the "workhorse" Nokia 6310i (which would last for WEEKS without needing charge...) through infrared, to get internet on it...)

[Dixit]

This is why several reviews go like this:
"Mediocre phone with mid-level specs for a flagship price. OS outdated before actual delivery started.
Oh... and it has a keyboard."

True... we knew it beforehand.

[bloblo]

This is why several reviews go like this:
"Mediocre phone with mid-level specs for a flagship price. OS outdated before actual delivery started.
Oh... and it has a keyboard."

True... we knew it beforehand.

Right. I'm mainly unhappy that Planet Computers still pretends they're working on it while refusing to give out any details which just seems a little shady. I'd rather have them say upfront if it's not going to happen - also, they haven't given out a single info of what Mediatek actually told them (which I would suspect is the most vital info on whether anything is going to happen at all regarding Android 8 or not).