newbie questions - epoc pasion

[itreeye]

Howdy, I know this is likely a foolish question, but here goes. Years ago I started out getting mobile and organised with a Psion, which runs epoc OP. I grew to really appreciate this interface.

1. Is there anything similar I could flash/install onto my new C860?
2. If not, how would it be possible to get epoc onto my Zaurus?

Thanks for any thoughts!  

[lardman]

2. Is not possible I\'m afraid.

I\'m a Psion convert - I\'ve grown used to Qtopia.


Si

[Teletubbie]

coming from the psion, I am now using a 5500. I am quite happy with the device, but the keyboard is as not so fine as yours on the 860. With the 5500 openzaurus is quite likely, since it is as stable as the psion os. From the people who use the 860 I hear they are quite fine with a cacko rom named elena. Maybe someone with a cackorom can be some advice.
Cheers,
Sam

[amrein]

1. Is there anything similar I could flash/install onto my new C860?

Nothing official. PdaXrom or Cacko could replace Psion Epoc OS but the applications as the two Zaurus desktop environnement are not well designed.

2. If not, how would it be possible to get epoc onto my Zaurus?

Using an emulator perhaps. There\'s none at present.
The official emulator on Windows is a not an emulator but a simulator (programs are i586 binary and not ARM binary).
Note that Epoc is compiled with gnu gcc toolset. After gcc output, libraries and programmes headers are modified to be able to include some \"Epoc\" information.

A few people have used the gcc Epoc source (as it is GPL) to build a version for Linux (like here: http://gnupoc.sourceforge.net/). So... it is possible to imagine a dynamic loader for Epoc applications. Something like http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/ could be used to begin this kind of project.

The main hardware part of Psion Series 5/5mx (and a little less the netBook) are know by the guys from http://linux-7110.sourceforge.net/  (because they have received documentation on Psion device hardware in order to be able to port Linux).

All those answers won\'t satisfy you I guess...
It\'s a \"to be done by hackers\" project.

[padishah_emperor]

Howdy, I know this is likely a foolish question, but here goes. Years ago I started out getting mobile and organised with a Psion, which runs epoc OP. I grew to really appreciate this interface.  

1. Is there anything similar I could flash/install onto my new C860?
2. If not, how would it be possible to get epoc onto my Zaurus?  

Thanks for any thoughts!  

1. No, only the options mentioned so far
2. You cant. If someone ported a fast DOS emulator where is a EPOC16 emulator which would run on the emulated VGA. The EPOC32 emulator is a Win32 app.

However, Psion is long dead (there is some derivative company who uses the brand name) and there are equivalent/better apps for Qtopia.

[amrein]

Hello padishah_emperor.

You mine equivalent/better apps for Qtopia lile Psion Agenda / Todo, Data, Jotter, Route Planner, TomTom Citymaps, Money, Draw/Sketch, Contacts, Word Processor, Macrosystem, Printer drivers, Font Machine TTF driver, Mocha Telnet/tn3270/tn5250 emulator, Mobile, PhoneMan Manager Pro, E-mail, Navigator, plBeam, PDF+, Essential Disk Utility, nConvert, nftp, Wap browser, XTM DOS emulator, ... and even Calc?

Or perhaps you talk about Opera new Z version, MP3/DIVX player and ssh/bash.

Regards
Dark side of the moon?

[amrein]

I help you to answer:
 But what do you want to do with a Wab brother on a Zaurus?

Good.

[lardman]

PdaXrom or Cacko could replace Psion Epoc OS

In the same way that any of the other ROMs could too. Personally I\'d recommend OZ, but that\'s just me. ;-)

A few people have used the gcc Epoc source (as it is GPL) to build a version for Linux (like here:http://gnupoc.sourceforge.net/).

Not wanting to dampen spirits, but from my quick read of the aforemetioned page this just looks like an SDK which you can use on Linux (rather than on Windows which is the only place the official ones work) to build binaries for EPOC machines rather than to build Linux binaries from EPOC code.

My feeling is that EPOC was very nice, the entire system worked well, especially considering the relatively low end harware and memory constrains. The agenda was great, I also rather liked the database which came with it. And a spreadsheet with graphs! This is something I can\'t understand not having on the Z - it ought to be relatively easy to do (he says ;-)).

But all in all the Z is better - music & videos, better browser, more choice of apps and they are easier to port/develop too.

Just my tuppence\' worth.


Si

[padishah_emperor]

Hello padishah_emperor.

You mine equivalent/better apps for Qtopia lile Ps..

mmh.. itreeye asked a question and answered and I gave my opinion as he asked. I agree with Lardman and I\'m not entering into yet another debate with you on the merits of a dead platform.

[amrein]

The patches they provide is to be able to run the SDK on Linux. The compilier is build for Linux and the other tools are from the SDK (mainly, the emulator).

Here is a better link to give some more light on this:
  http://epocemx.sourceforge.net/

I agree with Lardman and I\'m not entering into yet another debate with you on the merits of a dead platform.

Opinions clash between you and me as always.
It\'s part of the game and I admit that you could think differently. But I can\'t be quiet as I must (as you) defend my ideas and give my opinions, even on what you say.

[padishah_emperor]

Not true, I frequently agree with you and greatly admire the way you defend your position, but I occasionally do not get what you are on about or you just put things in a way that gets my back up. ;-)  I\'m just not into floggin a dead horse, let it rest in peace. Psions have had their day in the sun, I\'m proud that a British company did so much so well, but that\'s the past now. Psion Teklogix is nothing more than an obscure derivative making the same uninspired drivel as all the other PocketPC makers, they just insult the memory of Psion by squeezing that tripe into a NetBook...

But back on thread...

We need better applications for Qtopia and less fussing over alternatives such as Opie or pdaXrom, that\'s all there is to it. But I haven\'t the time or skills to do it, I really wish I did, the platform would be long dead before I ever got into it that much. I really wanted the Psion PIMs on my Z, but now Ko/Pi (and the forthcoming address book) has obsoleted the idea.

We DO badly need a graphing application which is interoperable with Hancom though.. Plus a tool to produce presentations on the Z..

I don\'t think the SDK will be of much use to someone who just wants to run an EPOC app without turning their Z into a major science project. I will keep my fingers crossed for an EPOC32 emulator.. in time these things may come, I wouldn\'t hold your breath though...

[DrWowe]

We need better applications for Qtopia

YES!  I actually agree with you for once.    Qtopia is simply a great platform that \"looks and feels\" exactly like a PDA should, and QT makes producting quality C++ apps quite pleasant.  Sure, having a \"mini-workstation\" with X11 and Mozilla is nice to brag about, but lets face it, X was designed for workstations with 3 button mice and large screens, and is at best a little clunky on a sleek palmtop machine.

I think people should also consider Java as a viable option for making applications.  It\'s easier for less experienced programmers, and I\'ve tried some Java applications on my 6000 and the speed is fine.  Maybe an extra second or two of startup, but what\'s the big deal?

[padishah_emperor]

YES!  I actually agree with you for once.  

Cheeky monkey, I thought we always agreed LOL!! You\'re just sore from all your lost clamshell fights with me. ;-)

Sure, having a \"mini-workstation\" with X11 and Mozilla is nice to brag about, but lets face it, X was designed for workstations with 3 button mice and large screens, and is at best a little clunky on a sleek palmtop machine.

The \"because I can\" mentality was at work, I LOVE X plus I love running GIMP on my Z, BECAUSE I CAN! ;-) But apart from GIMP and multiple Xterms, all of which I can do on X/Qt, there is no need for it. All the effort which has gone into pdaXrom and  porting apps for it, could have been spent on porting said apps to X/Qt and writing new apps for Qtopia.

I think people should also consider Java as a viable option for making applications.  It\'s easier for less experienced programmers, and I\'ve tried some Java applications on my 6000 and the speed is fine.  Maybe an extra second or two of startup, but what\'s the big deal?

It does seem underused. My astronomy software is in Java, works for me. I\'m sure my 860 was shipped with a decent Java, the default ROM wasn\'t on for long and that vanished when I switched to Cacko QT ROM. I\'m using something which I think was meant for a 5500.

[DrWowe]

Cheeky monkey, I thought we always agreed LOL!! You\'re just sore from all your lost clamshell fights with me. ;-)

In your dreams!  DrWowe 1, padishah_emperor 0!

It does seem underused, but I know very little about Java or the issues.

Java is easy to learn, if you\'ve ever programmed in any other language.  Much simpler than C++.  If you really want to help the Z, you should buy a book and dive in.  Write a small app to start with, and add features gradually as you learn more.  I bet you could have something useful in 2 weeks.

Other languages like Python or Perl could work, too.

[fpp]

Other languages like Python or Perl could work, too.

Especially Python I\'d say, with its pyQt bindings ported by Riverside.
As the Zaurus has SDL, if pyGame was ported as well, that would make for a nive dev platform.