What do you prefer...

[Laze]

We are currently working on the next release of the pdaXrom and we are having some dicussions regarding default GUI/panel/window manager etc.

We are currently leaning towards ROX and maybe fbpanel or mb-panel. We could also stay with matchbox as it seems to be the best PDA gui.

So we thought we would ask you guys about your oppion. What do you think makes the best/fastest flexible combination of \"panels, windows managers\" etc. to make the default GUI? Please write you details and explain why you like it and if it feels fast and good etc. Amd no i don\'t wan\'t to create a poll - and please don\'t start a poll on wheter i should start a poll or not :-)

Bonus question:
We are currently talking about replacing all the \"built-in\" prefs/settings programs with python+pygtk - how do you feel about that?

[coolass]

I just hope you guys could make a port for the 6000.

[ChrisEBoy]

hi Laze,

matchbox seems a much better fit than ROX, rox took up way too much memory and gave little in return for use on a pda.

matchbox is minimal and fast enough.  short of refreshing the clock on it, I don\'t see much room for improvement on a small device.  It\'s a good fit for the Z.  

If the pref\'s program is python (or something else) this should allow for easier hotfixes or enhancements that wouldn\'t require an ipkg for it.  If people want to tailor it gives a good place for it too.  The main benefit I would see is that you can pull all settings into a common look and feel, and easily add to all of them.

[pgas]

I like matchbox, and i would say with the matchbox window manager as i end up using the apps in fullscreen anyhow.
Matchbox is designed for pda which is important to me. (It is usable with the keyboard only or with the stylus only)

Also matchbox is small, so  if someone wants to install something else, less storage is wasted.

ROX with mb-panel is not such a good idea as there is currently no way to switch between apps without the keyboard.
(well, i have small applet for this but i didn\'t tested a lot, and tested it only on pc, and  have no time to work on this...)

[Zazz]

Do not install any window manager by default. Put all of them into optional ipkgs. Space is precious, and it\'s so annoying to manually get rid of the unwanted stuff.

If you must install install a default wm, I recommend ratpoison. Definitely do not choose matchbox/openbox until the horrible hide-taskbar bug is fixed.

[Laze]

Zazz - we are planing on making two different \"rom\" downloads:
1. Normal ROM with matchbox and some usefull preinstalled util (all installed as IPKs so they can be removed if you don\'t wan\'t some or all of them). This is thought for normal users
2. Expert ROM with only kernel/term and no GUI and preinstalled IPKs

Sound ok to you. Our thought with the new system is that nothing should be \"impossible\" to remove.

And just for the record: Im not doing much programming (except some of the new python stuff and all web related activities)

[ScottYelich]

I agree with zazz.

I haven\'t tried it yet, but I\'ll proably play with xcfe + goodies under the next release.

The only thing I miss from rox was being able to put icons on the screen.  I *really* like that ability.

With the current openbox, it\'s not bad -- \'cept the \"active tasks\"  section seems to update/lock the beast so getting out
of that section is difficult (you tap the back, it doesn\'t work, so you tap tap tap... ig back, but then selects the next section after you go
back... etc).

Ya, I believe xcfe doesn\'t allow icons on the desktop either... :-/  dunno.

I also need/want single keystroke virtual workspace switching... like where the ` key is now,
use the two japanese keys to be \"back one virt\" and \"forward one virt\" ... with a default of like 8 virts (I have 6 now).

I\'m also interested in python, pyqt, etc... but that\'s not the question asked :-]

Basically, like with zazz, perhaps install the \"smallest\" footprint window manager that just has a default screen with a link to ipks
for other window managers -- openbox, rox, xcfe, e, etc.  That way, people still can get X and an xterm... but nothing that they
will have to unconfigure.  Base apps can still be installed and lauched via a shell (menu?) ...

I figure, if you\'re not going to have xdm running by default and just have the console login -- you might as well let people
decide what they want for X.  If you\'re gonna run an xdm like login, then you might want a slightly more configured system,
but I\'d still limit it to just a basic window manager -- with an initial xterm + shell menu (to install other wms or launch apps).

Scott

[martint]

I use rox with mb-panel and am very happy.

I generally work from keyboard (apart from when browsing).  I like being able to see multiple windows.

I don\'t like the tab-based-PDA-style GUI (the categories seem pretty arbitrary to me and I never bothered to find out if/how to change them).

For me the mini-laptop feel of the X11 Rom is one of its biggest attractions (together with the nice SDK).

If the community is divided on this (as it seems to be), then I would go with Zazz\'s suggestion of offering optional WMs, with none as default.

BTW thanks for asking for views on this!
m

(c760, 256SD)

[Zazz]

Zazz - we are planing on making two different \"rom\" downloads:
1. Normal ROM with matchbox and some usefull preinstalled util (all installed as IPKs so they can be removed if you don\'t wan\'t some or all of them). This is thought for normal users
2. Expert ROM with only kernel/term and no GUI and preinstalled IPKs.

I am delighted to hear that.

The next logical step is to think about version updates without completely reflashing the root partition. The Expert ROM looks like it could be installed over an existing installation without erasing it first with no ill effects, and everything else done via ipkg upgrades. If that is so, non-expert users will soon want to have that option too. For the upcoming release, a fresh start over is probably a good idea, but from there on, it would be nice if further upgrades did not wipe out the existing installation.

Will Ashley\'s single root partition scripts be included in the new installer?

[Laze]

Zazz: Normal users will probally also have the option to upgrade without flashing.. The can just uninstall - but not until 2.0 will we have finished \"product\".

[jgraves]

Laze,

I think matchbox is fine.  I would like to see something other than the \"default\" scheme as the default. (Sounds strange).
It is very ugly and gives people a poor first impression.

Also, I\'d love to see the default user NOT being root.  You should only need to su to install pkgs and such.  Use the
sudo package to help there.  It\'s just good for people to understand the proper use of root on a linux/unix platform. (IMHO).

-John

[whit]

but not until 2.0 will we have finished \"product\".

Too bad you can\'t get Sharp to recognize that there could be a significant market for your product plus theirs. As delivered their clamshells are nice eye candy but only add up to an overpowered yet clunky PDA. Reprogrammed with pdaX you have something close to perfect for the growing numbers of *nix sysadmins, students and hobbiests who\'d love to have a real computer in their pocket rather than have to carry an awkward laptop. I\'ve been waiting for years for a real computer, real small, under a thousand bucks. Hey, we\'ve got it.

I second the idea that the default theme at present is quite ugly; don\'t know the options on the light-weight end of the spectrum but images of file folders just look strange on a 21st Century device.

[ikm]

What do you think makes the best/fastest flexible combination of \"panels, windows managers\" etc. to make the default GUI?

Panel: anything that would offer a taskbar. matchbox-panel doesn\'t seem to offer it, and it makes it very hard to switch tasks without keyboard.

WM: anything that would give the possibility to launch applications maximized by default. Every time I launch something, the first thing I do is maximizing it.

Bonus question:
We are currently talking about replacing all the \"built-in\" prefs/settings programs with python+pygtk - how do you feel about that?

That is reasonable. It would be a bit more sluggish I guess, but that\'s not the issue with the configuration tools -- as most people tend to configure their systems only once in a while. As an exchange for the startup time, you get the rapid application development tools that would help making configuration tools much better.

[Zumi]

Laze:
1. I\'m very impatient.  Approximately how many days \'till the release of the new ROM? (No PayPal from Hungary, sorry; but I\'m busy clicking the ads on your page! )

2. I like matchbox but a list-of-open-windows-applet would be handy. (I have to use alt-tab and that\'s not too convenient. A built-in (in the ROM) onscreen keyboard is needed too.

3. I think you sould see the Cacko Qtopia ROM and try to implement some of the features. (for example backlight adjusting applet for matchbox)

4. The handwriting program in the Qtopia ROM is really good; Is there a way to convert it to GTK? (I really don\'t know anything about gui programing...)

Keep up the good work! :wink:,
Zumi

[zxerx]

Zazz - we are planing on making two different \"rom\" downloads:
1. Normal ROM with matchbox and some usefull preinstalled util (all installed as IPKs so they can be removed if you don\'t wan\'t some or all of them). This is thought for normal users
2. Expert ROM with only kernel/term and no GUI and preinstalled IPKs

Very nice - having everything but the core system installed as IPKs is excellent. I definitely want to run X, but the only window manager I\'m interested in is Ion, which I\'m happy to build myself.

BTW. Is there any news on having qtopia compatability under pdaXrom?

cheers