Lord, do not make me commit the Crime!

[mussi]

Hmmm...I'm a bit fed up, maybe, with my Z. It's still a nice pocket Linux PC, but I need a PIM as well.

Don't take me wrong, I'm not whining about a few things the Z cannot do. I'm not whining about about a few missing features that other PIMs might have. I actually like the software choice I have on the Z and it's pretty adequate for what I have to do with it.

However, with the upgrade to Mandrake 10 I have lost the ability to use KitchenSync. Installing just KitchenSync will create a segfault when you try to sync the Z with the KDE 3.2 desktop, and installing it the common way with everything will just make Kontact no longer work, which of course is also pretty annoying. Afteri having a look at KO/PI and consorts, this ain't an option neither as I think the standard Opie PIM applications are better. and defintely more suited to a 5500 I currently have. So no "SSH bricolages" for such hacks, I need a pro tool that will work like KPilot. Looking at KPilot from KDE 3.2, actually makes me drool at all the features the software offers.

So basically, things outside the control of the Z community might make me go out and buy a Handspring Treo 600 or a Tungsten E. PalmOS is not an unknown for me (I used it for quite a long time), but it would make me loose some useful applications and features I can only have on a Z.

It basically depends on the fact that I get some useful application like KitchenSync that will work on KDE 3.2 without a hitch and sync my Kontact stuff (execpt mail, I don't need that). If I don't get that in near future, I'll feel forced to switch. I need a PIM which is not some experimental toy, but a professional and slick software. The hardware is powerful enough.

Don't make me do the heinous deed!

[Teletubbie]

I hope the Lord hears you!
About Kitchensync: It will be surely developement there, as I heard, so waiting is a good option.
Until then, you could use multisync. I am using that for a while with opie PIM and its a dream. But it syncs with evolution, so you have to use evolution at the desktop. But then you see your contacts, your todos, your calendar etc. all in evolution. Its nice, give it a try.
Cheers,
Sam

[mussi]

Switching to Ximian Evolution is not up for discussion here as I have set up all interested parties with KDE Kontact and do not wish to become a stray. Also, KDE Kontact supports the Aegypten framework, which is quite important to me as I use encrypted email a lot.

So basically the only option is KitchenSync or a successor to it, at the moment. and usage of the original Opie PIMs, which I rate superior to Ko/PI and consorts for small screens like the one on my 5500.

[ulf1]

and usage of the original Opie PIMs, which I rate superior to Ko/PI and consorts for small screens like the one on my 5500.

Hello mussi,

We are interested why you think the Opie PIMS are superior to Ko/Pi?
Maybe we can do something about it to make it even better and to suite your needs.

If syncing is your only problem, then I think Ko/Pi must be the choice because it is currently the only solution that works for all and every combination of device and desktop computer/operating system.
Granted, the setup of the scp or ftp scripts might be not that easy, but this is a onetime thing and it is well documented.

cheers,
Ulf

[mussi]

OK, Guys, fecal matter is gonna rain down hard.  

My critics to KoPI:

1. Size. The whole operation is not small, it's noticable. Putting them on QuickLaunch works on the startup speed, but somehow defeats the purpose of having a PDA.
2. Clutter. If I want to edit a calendar entry, I don't want to have tabs, because usually, I neither have attendees. Look at the Opie Calendar applet. That's the way it should work, because a PDA is not a PC. Setting the fonts to 'tiny' lessened the problem, but did not do away with it. Make a "Today" application. Much easier to keep everything on it. And then have seperate Todo and Calenda apps.
3 The installation process puts them into the wrong tab - use the provided Opie PIM tab, it works just as well as the custom one. And People don't go looking for it unless they're really motivated to use it.

KaPI:

1. Size.
2. The scrollbutton should be in the contantcs list at startup so I can use the cursor keys to select a name, and then use the center button to pop up all the information on that contact.
3. A new address? More tabs around than needed. Take a close look at the Opie Contacts application, it somehow worked out that problem.

1) can probably be solved by putting them into ROM and replacing the Opie PIMs completely. Since they share a thing or two, RAM usage can be alleviated.

For the others - remember that you're programming for a PDA, not a PC. Have a look at Konqueror/Embedded. The developers there got it almost right. What KaPI and KoPI are trying is to get a PC application running a 320x240 screen, and like my ancestry says "Son, this dog won't hunt.".

Also, people are interested in Turn-Key solutions. Basically, applets on the PDA and a syncing solution that will sync the whole data without having the user start shell scripts. KitchenSync was not too bad at it.

I could live with the Pi-Sync stuff one day, but you have to fix

[zautrix]

*LOL*

oops ... sorry!

[mussi]

I'll have to invest some time into testing the theory for installing KitchenSync against KDE 3.2, but for the time being, read http://snoop.alphanet.ch/?q=users/mussi/zaurus/syncing.html and think up theories why it works despite being compiled against 'foreign' versions.

[edbarrett]

However, with the upgrade to Mandrake 10 I have lost the ability to use KitchenSync. Installing just KitchenSync will create a segfault when you try to sync the Z with the KDE 3.2 desktop, and installing it the common way with everything will just make Kontact no longer work, which of course is also pretty annoying

I'm running Debian Testing ("sarge") and got KitchenSync to play nicely with others.  It's overwriting (IIRC) the libical files that get installed with your distro with its own.  Here's what I had to do for everything to work for me:

Configure like so:

Code: [Select]

./configure --prefix=`kde-config -prefix` --libdir=/usr/local/lib --with-qt-includes=/usr/include/qt3/
You may not need to specify --prefix and --with-qt-includes (but if you do, make sure that's really where your qt3 include files are!).  the --libdir switch makes sure you don't overwrite your libical files.  Go ahead and then make && make install.

But you really should probably either use zical to export your calendar items (search the forums, there's a good writeup on how to use it) or learn to love KO/PI; I didn't like it either at first but it's really incredibly nice to drop the Zaurus on the network and have your desktop pick up the calendar right away.  I've set up a resource on my desktop KOrganizer for "Calendar in remote file" and am using the fish:// kioslave to directly read the KO/PI data from the Zaurus.

[sylvius]

On the topic of the Treo 600:

My brother's office switched over to them, so they have like 30-40 people using them. Since they started about 4 months ago, at least half of the units have been sent back for warranty replacement. They simply break, and I don't mean dead pixels, they just stop working.

As for me, I have tried the integrated PDA/phone and have decided that I just want a simple, small mobile that just works with good reception and a loud ringer. I don't need any of the other bells and whistles. The pda I want to be a good pda without hastily tossed in phone features that are obtrusive and don't work all that well.

Ko/PI and Ka/PI, I think, are amazing. I am on an SL-C860, so the bigger screen makes all the difference. However, it is amazing to have my entire calender and all my contacts on my PDA the exact same way as they appear on the desktop. No more custom fields to map (since Palm still only allows one address and four phone numbers per contact which is inadequate) and no more information that gets lost in the sync. Plus, if the pda crashes, all I have to do is copy two little files from kontact and everything is there again the exact same way. If I were you, consider getting a 640x480 zaurus and reevaluate the usefulness of ko/PI and ka/PI.

Finally, I just switched from a palm (Tungsten T3) to the zaurus. The Z is worlds ahead of the palm in terms of an architecture. The file system on the palm is still so lame and backwards, it makes it such a pain to put any document on there without a conversion program. For example, forget putting pdfs on your palm unless you are running the windows acroread conduit. WindowsCE is a little better (though I hate myself for saying it  ) and syncs beautifully if and only if you are running outlook under windows. It sucks trying to sync with kontact or evo.

Sorry for the extended rant...

[mussi]

I have been thinking about getting a clamshell PDA, but there are actually a few things speaking against it:

• Size. The clamshell PDAs are not quite smaller, and the 6000 ain't that neither. Size-wise, I'm happy with my 5500.
• Handling. I can flip the screen cover, turn it on, start the contacts application and voila, I have the info, and I didn't have to use a second hand. Do that with a C-860!
• Price. The 5500 I have always beats the 860 I don't have, or the Handspring Treo I don't have neither.

As I also stated, since I don't have a clamshell Z, KoPI and KaPI are mostly useless to me as the screen of my Z is too small to really accomodate a desktop application.

For switching - the only Palm Tungsten that doesn't profusely suck is the Tungsten E, which at least looks like a good old Palm IIIc which I enjoyed for quite a few years (five, IIRC). The handspring treo 600 could be much better by not featuring a large nonflippable keyboard. Also, at least the crop of Treos down here are quite nice and work rather well, out of two dozen people that I know to have one, only one has been sent back for warranty repair.

The document conversion thingy in Palms really annoys, though, but this shouldn't be impossible to overcome.

[sigmaX]

Well... my C860 is smaller than my SL-5500 ...

[zack]

I have a Treo 600, previously owned a SL 5500 and now C760.  

The Treo is a nice unit.  Very functional and the software just works and the keyboard is a huge plus.  

Whatever I dreamed of doing with my Z I can do that effortlessly.  Checking email from train, sms, voice, mms ...

The Z is good, got the most power and the best resolution when compared to the
Treo.  But again, what we lack is not processing power, but good software.  

One example:  When I had my Z, I bought a cell-phone to Z cable and connected to my mail server while on the move.  It worked.  But the mail program that comes on the Z, pulls in all the emails there is on the server.  

On the Treo, you have an option how much email you want to pull.  Treo is very keyboard friendly.  I hardly take out the stylus.   Again this is a very trivial thing to implement, but look at the apps for Z!  

As I said, I love the Z for its engineering, hate its s/w.  

And so far I haven't purchased any software for the Treo.  Most are free and they are very functional and has a vibrant development community.

I wish more folks participated.  But it was sad we actually drove out one of our star guys proto out of the community.

[elvis]

hmm off-topic but what happened to proto? i must have missed the soap opera.

[spaul]

If you don't mind carrying stuff my solution might work for you.  I carry both a 5600 and a samsung i330.  I use the keyboard and PIM on the 5600.  KoPi / zaurtrix rock for me but one could easily use palm compatable pims on the i330.  And you get relatively fast web browsing
with Avant Go and the phone itself is very high quality samsung.  The 5600 is great for the keyboard, broadband wireless opera, tx image photographs, videos of kids, and pdfs.  In theory you could hook up the 5600 to i330 and sprint for opera browsing but Avant Go / sprint cnxn is good enough.  

The worst part are the jokes about having two PDAs but both the 5600 and i330 are dirt cheap on ebay relative to the lack of even an expensive product that combines their functionality.