Student Of Japanese

[Vice]

I will be living in Tokyo for one year, starting in April.  I currently have a cannon wordtank, but kanji look up is still rather cumbersome.  I am interested in the ability to hand draw kanji, and Zaurus are well known for this.  I am a Computer Science major and like to play with Linux, but cannot convince myself to buy one for just that reason.

My question is about the Japanese software that comes standard, and any other programs that are helpful for Japanese study.  Any map programs would also be great.

I was hoping to find another student of Japanese who could let me know of there experiences.

Also, I would like to know what model would suit me best.  Is it worth it to go up to c3000?  Or will the c860 or later models suffice?

Thanks for any help

Vice

[Razzle]

If you're looking for a capable japanese dictionary PDA I'd suggest you take a look at the MI series first before thinking about buying one from the SL series.
The SL-series has the same input methods but it lacks good dictionaries afaik.
There's Kanji-Nirvana and maybe a few others but its still far away quality-and quantity-wise from what you can get for the MI-models.

This is the MI-21:

[img]http://www.kodai1.ed.jp/kadaiken/pasokon/mie21.gif\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]

It can play MP3s, has a CF slot and 64MB RAM.
However it doesn't run linux but otherwise it wouldn't be able to use the dictionaries from this site which are quite good.

Hope this helps.

[halx]

The SL-series has the same input methods but it lacks good dictionaries afaik.

Now, you made me curious.  Which dictionaries does the M series have that would be better than any  dictionaries from Kenkyuusha, Iwanami, Sanseidou, Koujien, etc.

[ashikase]

Vice:

Though you mentioned being able to use other software, to make this easier to answer, let's assume your main (only) purpose for getting a Zaurus would be for use as as a Japanese dictionary/study tool.

One big question then comes to mind... do you plan to continue studying Japanese after your year in Japan is up? If not, the Zaurus might not be the best choice, financially speaking. If you really want a dictionary that allows hand-drawn input, you might be better off getting one of Sharp's older non-Linux Zaurus models, some of which can apparently be bought for less than $100. As you already have a Wordtank, the two together should be more than enough to get you through a year here.

If you do plan to continue studying Japanese, the Linux Zaurus line has plenty of tools to cover most needs. Available software includes sljisho (included on Cx60 models), zdict (C3000's dictionary software), zten, zbedic, kanjinirvana, and my own knQuiz (*plug*). In addition, you can also use the Zaurus to read Japanese ebooks, manga, and webpages (whether live or saved locally).

Is it worth getting the C3000? The selling point in your case (aside from the included dictionaries) would be the internal 4GB microdrive. If you plan to carry a lot of data with you, a large CF/Microdrive or SD card is necessary - my dictionary directory alone takes up 1.6GB.

I would suggest try-before-buy, if possible. In fact, you might be better off waiting until you get to Japan before you buy one; it will give you a chance to see what's available, and by that time prices will probably have dropped a bit.

Of course, if you're really just looking for an excuse to buy a new toy, and you've got money burning a hole in your pocket, then I don't know if my advice really makes a difference (^_^)

(P.S.: As I was writing this, I noticed Razzle beat me to the punch. One thing to note, though, is that many (most?) of the dictionary files listed on ZOK can be used on the Linux series. One place where the older models _may_ fair better than the Linux models, though, is outdoors - the screens on the Linux models are hard to read outside. An old MI model (black and white?) may work better.)

- ashikase
- anpachi, gifu, japan

[halx]

zdict (C3000's dictionary software)

Ok, what did they change this time?  Do they still use the JISPA format?

[ashikase]

halx:

zdict is based off of the zten codebase; as such, it can use the same formats as zten. It includes some nice improvements over the original zten (not counting ztenv), such as a cleaned-up interface and a bookmark feature.

I still prefer sljisho for some things, though; it's much easier to switch between Japanese-Japanese and Japanese-English dictionaries with sljisho. Also, zdict doesn't include the nice 'pop-up definition window' feature.

- ashikase
- anpachi, gifu, japan

[halx]

zdict is based off of the zten codebase

Ah, interesting.  Did Sharp make the improvements?  There is no sljisho anymore on the 3000?
I just see that Sharp's web page mentions Koujien and Genius as denshijisho.

[ashikase]

Yeah, C3000 does not include sljisho. It does, however, still include slgdbk, the kanji lookup program, though the same information (and more) can be found in Koujien.

- ashikase
- anpachi, gifu, japan

[Razzle]

The SL-series has the same input methods but it lacks good dictionaries afaik.

Now, you made me curious.  Which dictionaries does the M series have that would be better than any  dictionaries from Kenkyuusha, Iwanami, Sanseidou, Koujien, etc.

Since my statement was based on personal experience (-> "afaik")  I hope you will forgive me if I'm incorrect. I was looking for a suitable dictionary for my SL5500 for quite a while but gave up when a friend recommended the site I mentioned above. Also afaik the dictionaries posted there are incompatible with the SL series (see compatibility-column).

Since you seem to be know better dictionaries (are they compatible with the SL6000?) could you maybe post a link here where they are available for download/buying?

[Vice]

First, thank you for the information, this ML might be all I need, but I would like to make sure.

I have been studying Japanese for a few years, and will continue to study after my year in Japan.  It is highly probable that I will be spending much of the next ten years between the US and Japan.

 If the higher end units are better as dictionaries, then I want one.  However, if the ML works just as well, then the ML is all I need.  

What I really want is, the *best* Japanese dictionary, that fits into the smallest space.  I do not want to throw money away. If the differences between the ML and C3000 are negligible then a ML unit would be the better choice.

[halx]

Since my statement was based on personal experience (-> "afaik")  I hope you will forgive me if I'm incorrect. I was looking for a suitable dictionary for my SL5500 for quite a while but gave up when a friend recommended the site I mentioned above. Also afaik the dictionaries posted there are incompatible with the SL series (see compatibility-column).

Since you seem to be know better dictionaries (are they compatible with the SL6000?) could you maybe post a link here where they are available for download/buying?

First of all, those dictionaries are not incompatible with a hardware device.  They might be incompatible with viewer SOFTWARE, however.  For the Linux based Zaurus there is at least zten (based on the EB library) which can read and display most EPWING/EB*(denshi book) dictionaries.  This format is quite popular in Japan and platform independent.  Publishing companies sell many of their dictionaries in this format (a somewhat outdated but still useful site is here).

For a start have a look at my Zaurus page.

[ashikase]

Vice:

What is considered the "best" dictionary is really a matter of opinion; the best dictionary is really whatever best suits your needs and is easiest for you to use and understand.

If money is not a concern, and you do plan to use the device for things other than studying Japanese, another thing to consider is other available software.

The Linux models have a lot of software available (though not always the easiest to setup/port), and has a lot of programming options if you ever plan to write your own (you mentioned that you study CompSci).

I've never personally used an MI-series model, but as far as I know, most - if not all - of the software for the series is Japanese-only; depending on your current Japanese ability, this could be a problem. I've been tempted to buy an (VGA) MI model myself, though, as the platform appears to have some interesting programs. If you want to check out software available for the MI series, try searching for Zaurus MI pages that mention "MORE" soft.

- ashikase
- anpachi, gifu, japan

[halx]

What I really want is, the *best* Japanese dictionary, that fits into the smallest space.  I do not want to throw money away. If the differences between the ML and C3000 are negligible then a ML unit would be the better choice.

There is at least a big difference in the hardware between those models (the C3000 is the first one with a 4GB harddrive, some of them come with keyboards added).  We are talking about several years of development here.

And, what's the "best" dictionary?  Probably you should first try to get an overview of possible candiates (as I said in the other  post, hardware is not so much of an issue here).

[ashikase]

Razzle:

Many of the commercial dictionaries come in formats (such as EPWING) which can be easily read by/converted to work with the SL series.

As for the dictionaries mentioned on ZOK... the C3000 comes with Koujien and Genius. I use Eijiro on my Z with zten. EDICT, of course, works fine on the Z. I can't comment on Nihonshi as I've never tried it.

If you do a search on the ZUG, there are also some specialized free dictionaries available that someone linked to at one time (sorry, I don't have the link anymore).

- ashikase
- anpachi, gifu, japan

[jamesannan]

I use an 860, substantially for Japanese learning (living in Japan now) but also for some other work (writing papers and presentations using LaTeX, general note-taking/alarm stuff, email and web, listening to music while doing soul-destroying programming in the terminal room :-). I'm  very pleased with how it has worked out.

For a beginner, zten with edict/kanjidic (see halx's web page) is definitely the way to go. Once you are up to speed a bit more, the in-built dictionary is probably a little better. Kanji handwriting recognition is very useful.

One thing that is missing IMO is a good flashcard program. I wrote a very simple one for myself in Java.

James