Can The C3000 Power A 1.8" Hd Through Usb Bus ?

[pierro78]

Hello Everybody,
I have read that it is possible for the 6000 to power a 1.8" usb hard drive through its USB host bus. Can anybody tell me if the C3000 can or can not do the same with the available low-powered 1.8" usb hard drives ?
Thanks !
Pierre

[Jonathan]

Today I again tried this 1.8" USB hdd with my C3000:

40gb usb 1.8" HDD

And again it didn't work.  The green power light glows, bit more dimly than it does when plugged into a PC USB port and there was no whirring from the motor.

What did seem to work today though was using this 1.8" hdd with this usb power booster:

USB hdd startup power booster

This booster contains a small battery that the drive can draw it's high start-up current from and then idle on the current available from the C3000.

I only had a couple of seconds to plug it all together before going home (snowing heavily).  The booster I used was flat (never been used) so I gave it 20 seconds plugged into the C3000's USB port on it's own.  Then I unplugged it and connected it to the 1.8" hdd and plugged it all into the Z.  The green LED came on strong and the motor started to power up.  Then the juice in the booster ran out.  

Not conclusive, but it does show that this drive definitely won't work on its own, but may work with the booster.

I'll try a longer test when time allows.

Jonathan

[pierro78]

thanks a lot for the information about the 40GB drive Jonathan !
hopefully it will work with some drives which draw less power ... maybe a 20GB drive ?

please keep us posted about your progress with the power booster !

[omega]

Interesting Idea... if it is in fact possible to run the harddrive on idling power from the c3000 and just startup power is needed then a large 10Farad capacitor (not very big phsyically, and just a few euros) placed in parallel with the usb cable might be sufficient to handle the spikes in power requirements.

[Jonathan]

 

Interesting Idea... if it is in fact possible to run the harddrive on idling power from the c3000 and just startup power is needed then a large 10Farad capacitor (not very big phsyically, and just a few euros) placed in parallel with the usb cable might be sufficient to handle the spikes in power requirements.
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Hmm, good thinking!  A large capacitor is nice in theory but I can see a few problems...

- Max caps (e.g. 1-10F) are designed for much lower current draws since they're primarily designed for memory backup etc.

- Not many max caps have ratings of 5v (better use > 5.5v to be safe)

- Voltage across the cap falls as it discharges making it only useful at the near 5v level - hence much less useful capacity than one might hope.

So for this application - sourcing a motor and associated electronics - such a cap is unlikely to work.  Hence the booster uses a NiMH battery (I think).

But, I might just do some quick calculations and maybe order one for our lab to give it a try...

The booster isn't so big and it might even be useful for those of us that need an external 5v supply for changing batteries in the field - just needs an extra little adaptor (Grrr no internal battery backup in the C3000   )


Jonathan

[Grant]

hopefully it will work with some drives which draw less power ... maybe a 20GB drive ?

The 30 GB and 60 GB drives are supposed to draw less power...

Grant

[nilch]

The 30 GB and 60 GB drives are supposed to draw less power...

Grant
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How is that so ?

Everywhere I read - it seems the 40GB require more power (at least to startup spinning) than the 10GB or 20GB HDD's.

In fact I just ordered a Archos ArcDrive 20GB (instead of a 40GB) just for this reason.
I also orderd a Belkin USB hub, so lets see how multiple devices working on the Zaurus works out for me.

I bought the hard drive basically for my trip to Grand Canyon - want to store those pictures and movies and empty the Camera CF card each night. Plus of course it just gives me more flexibity using the Zaurus as a mobile tool and not depend on computers while I am on the move.

[albertr]

My C1K can't even provide sufficient power for 802.11 usb dongle (rated @ max 350mA).
-albertr

[nilch]

Uh oh ! Thats not good news...

But the 6000 could run the Archos disk, so is the USB port power specs on the C1000 very different from the 6000L ?

Any feedback there on what are the USB devices working on the C1000 (and 3000) ?

I mean if the USB  host support on the C series is different from the 6000, then maybe we could have a thread dedicated for the C series USB device support (cause I tend to go to the 6000 thread and lookup the device support there).

[albertr]

AFAIK they have completely different hardware. On C1/3K USB OTG is implemented by Intel PXA270 that acts as an OHCI controller and a two-ports hub (Sharp just glued OHCI driver to PXA registers). Intel PXA technical documentation probably would be helpful for figuring out max. power load per hub port. I guess it's no less that 100 mA, but not sure if it's much more.

Unfortunately, I don't have a 6000, but I think is uses dedicated usb host controller chip.
-albertr

[Meanie]

Well, I have many little USB gadgets for my C3000 so let me share some of my experiences.

USB mini LAN adaptors work with the Z. The USB port on the Z provides sufficient power for it.

USB Bluetooth dongle also works. (well at least the little one I have)

USB mini mouse (mine is very small) also works

USB mini keyboard works as well

MP3 player's USB disk and USB memory sticks are OK

1.8" works if the Z is plugged in but not if its not plugged in to the mains

2.5" need a powered hub, but you can have multiple 2.5" plugged into the hub

3.5" have external power supply so no drama

plugging 4 USB devices into a powered hub works fine, but does not work if the hub is unpowered

USB light needs a powered hub, in fact, it does not need the Z, just the hub

USB camera needs the powered hub

[zaurian]

Well, I have many little USB gadgets for my C3000 so let me share some of my experiences.

USB mini LAN adaptors work with the Z. The USB port on the Z provides sufficient power for it.

USB Bluetooth dongle also works. (well at least the little one I have)

USB mini mouse (mine is very small) also works

USB mini keyboard works as well

MP3 player's USB disk and USB memory sticks are OK

1.8" works if the Z is plugged in but not if its not plugged in to the mains

2.5" need a powered hub, but you can have multiple 2.5" plugged into the hub

3.5" have external power supply so no drama

plugging 4 USB devices into a powered hub works fine, but does not work if the hub is unpowered

USB light needs a powered hub, in fact, it does not need the Z, just the hub

USB camera needs the powered hub
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I'm looking for USB hub which has its own internal power(Li-Ion bat). Is this kind of product available in the market?

[rickh]

I'm looking for USB hub which has its own internal power(Li-Ion bat). Is this kind of product available in the market?
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Not Li-Ion, but, 4 AAA recahargables:

[a href=\"http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/hub420mp.htm]http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/hub420mp.htm[/url]

R.
==

[neuroshock]

I'm looking for USB hub which has its own internal power(Li-Ion bat). Is this kind of product available in the market?
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Not Li-Ion, but, 4 AAA recahargables:

[a href=\"http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/hub420mp.htm]http://www.cyberpowersystems.com/hub420mp.htm[/url]

R.
==
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Yes indeed...kinda funny I was reading through the thread and I was all excited to tell folks about my CyberPower self powered usb hub....then you'ld already done it.

Anyhow, I've used this hub in conjunction with my 6000 for about a year and I've had no problem powering up just about anything for at least an hour or so.  I've never actually tried to see what would happen if I ran the batteries completely dry on this thing (afraid of data corruption when it gave out if using a usb hdd) but even after a constant hour of disk intensive active using a 2.5" laptop HDD in an external enclosure I had almost a full battery charge left.
It's very cool and easy to use, to charge it you just plug it into your desktops usb port. It charges very quickly.  When you're ready to use just grab it and plug it in via a USB Host cable and away you go.  It has a convenient switch to turn the power from the batteries on or off depending on whether you actually need it at the moment for the device your using.  This is really nice because it extends the battery life greatly....I'll be surfing the net or typing a document with my keyboard mouse with the switch off, and then with a flick of the switch I can power up my ext 2.5" drive.  After I'm done I can quickly switch it off so it won't keep draining power uselessly. Another nice feature is that it has a red led that shows you when and if a device is actually pulling juice from the batteries.  I've been amazed at the devices that DON'T need the extra power.  Also it's no bigger than most USB hubs that are powered through ext power!  You can alternately power it from an appropriate DC Powersupply (see specs below.) Oh, and you can easily replace the rechargeable batteries (standard  NiMh AAA batteries x4).  I suppose in a pinch you MIGHT could use 4 alkaline but it would be dangerous if you forgot and left them in and tried to charge them accidentally! As forgetful as I am I just couldn't make myself try it even if I wanted to.

EDIT: I just checked and the link above isn't working for me- so here's the model info etc. directly from the label on my hub:

Cyber Power
USB 2.0 4-Port Mobile Battery Powered Hub
MODEL NO. CP-H420MP
INPUT: 5Vdc 2.6Amp (little diagram that states the centerpole is positive)
CyberPower Customer Support: 1-952-403-9500
www.cyberpowersystems.com
Made in China (like everything else)


Anyway I can't say enuf good things about this hub.  It's a great, cheap piece of technology.

-NeuroShock

[bam]

cool, just ordered one, been looking for something like this, now I can power my 100GB external drive