More Choice In Linux Based Pdas And Smartphones

[adf]

. He did mention a sub qvga res.

The thread is on both pda and smartphones

 was pretty clear on my agreement w/ potter's position re phones

I think, though that there is a real market for powerful sub-sub-sub notebooks  (z clamshell sized)-- I have spoken to wince and palm pda owners who
say they would love such a device. There are alot of people for whom a pda doesn't cut it and who don't want the laptop "ball and chain"
Smartphones won't fill this niche either--though a simple phone that connected easily to the handheld would sell to this market.

My point is that Qtopia as it is now would do nicely on the smartphones, but I think a linux based handheld will need a more versatile,interface w/ a bigger software base

Qtopia does what it does well. Would you want your desktop to run it?  Would you put a desktop w/  qtopia ( only, not kde) against wnXP or osX in
a marketing or funtionality showdown?

The idea of a "handheld computer" is a very different thing than a pda or smartphone. Look at the evolution of the use and functions of laptops...
I think a tiny version is happening in parallel, and that if linux is going to have a peice of that market, it is going to have to be fully functional...
Think of the obstacles to development and progress on the Z--- all to do w/ closed source components. A hndheld needn't have such components, though a phone must, apparently.
I am happy enough to use a modem, aor a cheap cellphone to connect to the various telephone networks... and would happily buy a cheap cell to keep my handheld open sourcce.
It has been the open nature of linux that has made it develop, and garner what success it has. When a coporate liason (even from as benign a company as trolltech) starts talking about
how linux devices need to become closed  source or extinct I start looking for the catch..  

Pss the devices in questio are @300 mhz arms btw..w/ qvga screens.

[euroclie]

I hate to inform you of this, but there isn't a phone manufacturer or operator on the planet that is going to let you have easy access to the system. Some phones don't even let you install 3rd party applications. Why? Security and legality reasons. Phones are highly regulated devices, not like PDA's.

What exactly do you mean by "let you have easy access to the system"? Do you mean access to the network stuff (SIM toolkit, GSM/GPRS settings and info, etc.) or just access to the general system (i.e. the OS part that handles the display, keyboard, sound, etc.)?

I can certainly understand why manufacturer / operators would restrict your access to the network stuff, but they do not need to care about the rest of the OS, and there are a few smartphones available on which you have an almost complete access to the system - as long as you don't try to mess with the network part, of course...

[adf]

When someone issues such sweeping assertions, it  is sometimes useful to know  the source of their cashflow.....   I would't want trolltech to go  under, or potter to become disreputable. But the position stated is the one whereby trolltech gets ahead in the world.  Better them than MS, but maybe it is a limited assement they provide?

[tovarish]

Give me a well integrated Linux smartphone in Nokia 9300 form factor and I'll buy it ASAP. I don't need a camera etc, but I want the keyboard in a format that I can actually hold in my hand while talking. The prototypes in the first post are sadly lacking in the usability front.
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your wish has just been answered. now shell out the cash
i like this one enough to consider trying it
[a href=\"http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=8090]http://www.pdalive.com/showarticle.php?threadid=8090[/url]

tovarish

[nequiem]

This is an awesome concept but as discussed in other threads, it smacks of vaporware. No one has seen a prototype (that pic is a rendering), the website is thin on details and they do not respond to e-mails. I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. There are supposed to be 20 Linux cellphones on the way this year. It's almost April. Where are they? I'm hoping at least one of them is close to the specs of this device or at least offers phone, WLAN and keyboard. I'm tired of carrying my phone, PDA & MP3 player around. Give me one device to rule them all.

Edit: Humorous anecdote removed

[BarryW]

Before convergence:
Yo,  Shaniqua. What, girl? Here comes gadget boy. For real. He's like a skinny Batman. Wassup wit all that stuff hangin' on your belt clip, dawg? Is that a vacuum cleaner? A Zaurus? What's a Zaurus? You want to take me out where? You are trippin'. Get real!

After convergence:
Yo, Shaniqua. What, girl? Who's that? Is that gadget boy? Ya, girl. He's got a pimp lookin' Phone/PDA/MP3 player all-in-one now. Yo, that's tight. I didn't know what you looked like without that belt-clip. You are all that, dawg. I got a hot tub. You wanna come to my crib tonight? 
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The first person I see that actally talks like that I'm going to laugh at them and tell them to go back to school!

[adf]

Previously posted comment deleted by admin request

So... the idea quoted above is that If you hang more than one gadget on your belt, you are unattractive to women who speak poor english? Is this the general idea?

Are there an awful lot of people buying cell phones primarily  to impress these women?

For that matter, do most people hang their handhelds in holsters? and their phones?

[lardman]

Barry, you should treat idiots and ebonics with the respect they deserve 

Whatever the intention of this comment, I don't think it was necessary.

Back to the topic please.


Simon

[BarryW]

Barry, you should treat idiots and ebonics with the respect they deserve
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That was!!

[kahm]

I hate to inform you of this, but there isn't a phone manufacturer or operator on the planet that is going to let you have easy access to the system. Some phones don't even let you install 3rd party applications. Why? Security and legality reasons. Phones are highly regulated devices, not like PDA's.

What exactly do you mean by "let you have easy access to the system"? Do you mean access to the network stuff (SIM toolkit, GSM/GPRS settings and info, etc.) or just access to the general system (i.e. the OS part that handles the display, keyboard, sound, etc.)?

I can certainly understand why manufacturer / operators would restrict your access to the network stuff, but they do not need to care about the rest of the OS, and there are a few smartphones available on which you have an almost complete access to the system - as long as you don't try to mess with the network part, of course...
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My take on it is that cell phone providers don't like to give you access to the OS on the phone because the more access they give you the easier it is to get data in and out of the device on your own. What the providers want is for you to only be able to get data in and out through your expensive cellular data plan - none of this IR or BT or USB data transfer nonsense! People are getting stinking rich selling background pictures and ring tones for $2 apiece for tiny, low res pics and short midi files.

Sharp sells you a productivity tool when you buy a Z. The cell phone companies are trying to sell you air time.

[euroclie]

My take on it is that cell phone providers don't like to give you access to the OS on the phone because the more access they give you the easier it is to get data in and out of the device on your own. What the providers want is for you to only be able to get data in and out through your expensive cellular data plan - none of this IR or BT or USB data transfer nonsense! People are getting stinking rich selling background pictures and ring tones for $2 apiece for tiny, low res pics and short midi files.

I wholy agree with you, although I think that this applies more to mobile phones than to evolved smartphones or connected PDAs.

The owner of a "simple" mobile phone probably doesn't expect much as far as exchanging data between the phone and a desktop PC goes (contact informations, maybe pictures or videos if the phone has a builtin digicam), whereas a PDA or Smartphone user expects more syncing capabilities, if only to install third party apps...

One additional reason why they are usually reluctant to unleash the full power of BT or USB/Serial connections is that the smartphone can then be used as a wireless modem, which is definitely NOT what the carriers like if they provide some unlimited plans (like some US carrier do, as far as I could understand).
Sprint or Cingular did just that by crippling the BT DUN profile on the Treo 650, for instance.

On the other hand, carriers that don't have unlimited plans have no particular reason to prevent that use of a smartphone, quite the opposite...

Sharp sells you a productivity tool when you buy a Z. The cell phone companies are trying to sell you air time.

Yep. I just wish Sharp would have done a better job with the builtin apps (especially the PIM apps) as they clearly lack some basic features you find in, say, PalmOS or PPC equivalents... It's not as if there was a tremendous choice when it comes to finding a good datebook for the Zaurus, for instance.  

But then, true geeks can always install full-featured apps like the KDE PIM suite, or a debian distro, which can prove very useful at times although IMHO this completely defeats the "PDA" function of the Zaurus, as those apps are generally slooooow and cumbersome to use because not designed/optimized specifically with a PDA in mind.

I'd really like to see more choice in Linux PDAs and smartphones, but I think that to achieve this, companies would have to improve the builtin apps, because of the lack of "plug & play" software when compared to the other platforms. I mean, being able to tweak and recompile almost any Linux application is fine for the über-geek, but definitely not for the faint of heat or newbie!

[ev1l]

But then, true geeks can always install full-featured apps like the KDE PIM suite, or a debian distro, which can prove very useful at times although IMHO this completely defeats the "PDA" function of the Zaurus, as those apps are generally slooooow and cumbersome to use because not designed/optimized specifically with a PDA in mind.

Eh, KDEPIM can be installed normally, it doesn't take a Unix expert to install it. And for the love of god fast-load it, it'll launch just as fast as the default apps.

[euroclie]

Eh, KDEPIM can be installed normally, it doesn't take a Unix expert to install it. And for the love of god fast-load it, it'll launch just as fast as the default apps.

Ha! I wasn't refering specifically to KDEPIM when mentioning the hacking/compiling involved to install some apps, it's indeed quite the contrary: a nicely packaged .ipk, very user friendly.

But when it comes to using Ko/PI for instance, even if "fast-load" hides part of the overhead by moving those long seconds needed to launch the application in the boot process, it's still a very slow application by average PDA standards... When I switch to the month view, for instance, it takes 5 to 6 seconds on my 3000 for the display to stop refreshing. In the same month view, switching to next month takes approximately 2 seconds, and the same kind of delay appears when you show or hide the date picker, etc.

I don't think that Ko/PI is a bad PIM application, it's very powerful and configurable, but when I compare the time I need to, say, switch on the PDA, launch (or recall to the front) the agenda application,  get to next month's view, find a day with a free slot to put an appointment with my doctor, then create the said appointment, the same sequence of actions is much longer on the Zaurus than it was on my previous PDA (PalmOS Treo 600). Granted, part of the problem comes from the fact that I'm new to the Zaurus and need to get used to its UI, but Ko/PI is definitely slower in its display (not to mention launch) than any PalmOS equivalent, or the Sharp original agenda application, and the Zaurus in general is a bit less responsive than a PalmOS unit. Nothing dramatic, of course, but such minor things tend to add up, and in the end makes for a good or bad PDA experience.

[rickh]

...
When I switch to the month view, for instance, it takes 5 to 6 seconds on my 3000 for the display to stop refreshing. In the same month view, switching to next month takes approximately 2 seconds, and the same kind of delay appears when you show or hide the date picker, etc.

Something's wrong.  What else do you have running?  take a look at all your processes.  If you're uncomfortable with the command line, download process manager GUI.  They only time I've ever had a fast loading app take that long to switch views is when I was futzing around with getting Personal Java running om the C3000.  It was eating up around 20M of memory.  Otherwise it should only take a second to load a fast-loading app and switch views.

My guess is you've got some process left over from something else you were doing earlier.

R.
==

EDIT:  I should of course amend this by saying that I'm referring to KOPI when I say "fast-loading" apps.  I use it and love it.

[zautrix]

...
When I switch to the month view, for instance, it takes 5 to 6 seconds on my 3000 for the display to stop refreshing. In the same month view, switching to next month takes approximately 2 seconds, and the same kind of delay appears when you show or hide the date picker, etc.

Something's wrong.  

He is right. The problem was from switching from <some-view> in non fullscreen to the month view in fullscreen. There was the layout recomputed twice. It should work much faster in the next version 2.0.20 (available in some minutes) . I removed the double layout recomputing for that case.

And, by the way, KDE-Pim/Pi is already heavily optimized for the usage on a PDA.

z.