Author Topic: Thc, Iamasmith, Sashz..  (Read 6282 times)

danboid

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Thc, Iamasmith, Sashz..
« on: May 28, 2006, 04:18:30 am »
sashz has been talking about improving his uboot support so that the new pdaxrom could be installed onto SD. If he can do that then surely he can get it to install to MD too hence aping the OZ spitz release install method giving a unified release for all C3x00 owners. This would be a great advance for the distro and one of the greatest events ever for the C3000 platform.

If this isn't going to happen anytime soon then what are the chances Thc and iamasmith could team up to port us this ultimate C3000 rom?

The wait to see 2.6 kernel w/ vid accel and overclocking on my C3000 is killing me! Any day now zodttd will release his new zpsx (or is it psx4all now?). For anyone who has followed emulators since their beginning like me this is a major event and I'd prefer to see it when it happens. This new zpsx release (or +1 at least) will be great for all cxxxx owners as it will be one of the best ways to showcase the power of your clamshell Z. I talked my dad into buying a Z so he could run the same software on the Z as on the PC. That was almost a year ago now and the limitations of Cacko are really starting to frustrate us, especially since we have seen what we could be running.

From what I've read, it sounds as if somebody will need to write an iwmmx accelerated version of the mplayer rotation video filter so we don't have to reencode hi-res vids, or has this been done already for mplayer-bvdd?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 04:23:05 am by danboid »
Zaurus SL-C3000 w/ MD swapped for a Kingston 32GB Ultimate 266X CF running ALARM
Banana Pi running ALARM on a WD Scorpio SATA II HD
System76 Gazelle Pro i7 laptop w/ SAMSUNG 840 EVO SSD running Arch x64

How to install Arch on your C3x00 Zaurus https://github.com/danboid/ZALARM-install

iamasmith

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Thc, Iamasmith, Sashz..
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2006, 06:36:46 am »
Quote
sashz has been talking about improving his uboot support so that the new pdaxrom could be installed onto SD. If he can do that then surely he can get it to install to MD too hence aping the OZ spitz release install method giving a unified release for all C3x00 owners. This would be a great advance for the distro and one of the greatest events ever for the C3000 platform.

If this isn't going to happen anytime soon then what are the chances Thc and iamasmith could team up to port us this ultimate C3000 rom?

The wait to see 2.6 kernel w/ vid accel and overclocking on my C3000 is killing me! Any day now zodttd will release his new zpsx (or is it psx4all now?). For anyone who has followed emulators since their beginning like me this is a major event and I'd prefer to see it when it happens. This new zpsx release (or +1 at least) will be great for all cxxxx owners as it will be one of the best ways to showcase the power of your clamshell Z. I talked my dad into buying a Z so he could run the same software on the Z as on the PC. That was almost a year ago now and the limitations of Cacko are really starting to frustrate us, especially since we have seen what we could be running.

From what I've read, it sounds as if somebody will need to write an iwmmx accelerated version of the mplayer rotation video filter so we don't have to reencode hi-res vids, or has this been done already for mplayer-bvdd?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128655\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I'm probably never going to be interested in doing a great deal of Linux work on the SL-C3000 any more since working with OpenBSD for a bit. I won't turn this into a pro BSD vs Linux discussion - there are plenty of threads giving merits of one over the other all over the internet but I will pass on some observations here.

The last time I looked at running Linux entirely form the HD on the SL-C3000 (that time using a pivot_root mechanism) was when the OpenEmbedded folks had started to use this mechanism to implement the OPIE (and latterly GPE) ROMs for the SL-C3000.

I took this work and suggested to Thc a means whereby the pdaXrom image could be taken and run in the same manner.

The problem, at the time, seemed to be related to handling of suspend and the fact that the Kernel didn't flush and correctly suspend the hard drive.. this led to a few folk having problems particularly if heavy drive activity was present at suspend time. This may have been fixed in the 2.6 Kernel.. I'm not really sure, however, the only stable distribution that was available that ran from the HD of the 3000 and did correctly suspend the HD was OpenBSD.

With this issue present (if indeed it still is) then a heavy reliance upon the Flash filesystem for general operating system use and reliance on the HDD for user data storage seems sensible... hence the popularity of the 3100/3200 units.

With the issue fixed then there is really no need to wish for 128Mb Flash memory in the unit and the 16Mb of the SL-C3000 seems like less of a waste to host a simple bootstrap to start the unit from disk instead.

I now will not go back to using Linux on the SL-C3000 because I am running a whole distribution on my unit, complete with ports system and man pages which is identical to the desktop environment.. I also hold dear some of the other pro-BSD views (focus on stability, security and pro BSD license) so it is very unlikely that my interest will take me back to creating Linux ROMs for the 3000 unit specifically.

My suggestions are as follows...

OZ GPE seems like it might offer you a lot of what you want to do and they actively support the SL-C3000 so I assume that they are at work on (or maybe have fixed) HDD suspend/resume issues. Video acceleration etc. is something that you could probably discuss with them.

pxaXrom doesn't seem to have ever really supported the SL-C3000 with an origin based distribution. This is probably related to the dev guys not having units to test with but also possibly related to HDD issues and the fact that it is established and working on the 3100/3200 units. It is undoubtedly very cool running on these units.

I would suggest that you consider how you want to use the unit day-to-day and consider if one of the OE flavours may suit your requriements better. I know that they are starting to produce distros with 'Enlightenment' instead of GPE and if you have a reasonable Linux knowledge you could even take the bootstrap (bare Linux, no GPE and no OPIE) and build your ideal customised environment on it - given that they might have done all the hard work of resolving suspend/resume issues, video acceleration and more importantly have their patches included in the stock 2.6 Kernel sources this seems like a great way of producing your own environment.

Why am I going all pro OE on this one you may ask? well if you start to develop ROMs for these units you find that unless you are targetting what you are doing day-to-day yourself with the ROM the returns are zero for you (in fact not zero but negative since your Zaurus isn't running anything useful to you whilst you are doing the work for something that you don't need anyway). It is also possible to spot the trend of diminishing returns on any effort that you expend when new hardware emerges and the mainstream distributions go for this hardware - i.e. anyone purchasing a Zaurus now to run pdaXrom will almost certainly buy a 1000, 3100 or 3200. This means essentially that you put in a lot of work that you won't use yourself and the community which you are specifically attempting to help is diminishing all the time.

The only pragmatic solution to supporting devices in this category is to recognise the device dependent elements, make them most abstract between the devices and make the rest of the ROM distribution more or less generic across the device - the OE philosophy works fairly well in this respect.

That all being said, if the new bootloader works well on the 3000, the HD suspend thing is sorted etc. etc. etc. then pdaXrom may well be just the thing for you on the 3000. It would need someone with Linux skills who was inclined to adapt it to the 3000 layout to work on it though.

-Andy
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 06:41:20 am by iamasmith »
OpenBSD 4.2 -current on full 4Gb of SL-C3000
Microdrive replaced with 4Gb SanDisk Extreme III card

danboid

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Thc, Iamasmith, Sashz..
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2006, 10:18:52 am »
Hey there Mr. Smith!

Never one for your short replies are you?

You omitted the state of hardware support for the C3000 under openbsd. I would presume there is no video acceleration yet, but what about sound (full OSS support w/ recording?), touchscreen, USB host, cpu freq scaling and wifi support? I wouldn't really consider openbsd until its c3x00 hardware support reaches parity with Linux but I'd love to check it out as soon as it does.

Also, how does the openbsd boot time, disk IO and memory overhead compare to say OZ 3.5.4.1 or the latest pdaxrom?

Thc around to comment?
Zaurus SL-C3000 w/ MD swapped for a Kingston 32GB Ultimate 266X CF running ALARM
Banana Pi running ALARM on a WD Scorpio SATA II HD
System76 Gazelle Pro i7 laptop w/ SAMSUNG 840 EVO SSD running Arch x64

How to install Arch on your C3x00 Zaurus https://github.com/danboid/ZALARM-install

sashz

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Thc, Iamasmith, Sashz..
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2006, 12:08:56 pm »
Booting from SD/CF will in new u-boot/emergency sustem:)
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 12:53:08 pm by Laze »

iamasmith

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Thc, Iamasmith, Sashz..
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2006, 02:15:49 pm »
Quote
Hey there Mr. Smith!

Never one for your short replies are you?

You omitted the state of hardware support for the C3000 under openbsd. I would presume there is no video acceleration yet, but what about sound (full OSS support w/ recording?), touchscreen, USB host, cpu freq scaling and wifi support? I wouldn't really consider openbsd until its c3x00 hardware support reaches parity with Linux but I'd love to check it out as soon as it does.

Also, how does the openbsd boot time, disk IO and memory overhead compare to say OZ 3.5.4.1 or the latest pdaxrom?

Thc around to comment?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128670\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

You will probably see more free memory in OpenBSD with a comparable number of things running, however, this is really down to Linux cache handling which will reduce when memory starts to become depleted.

Boot time is fairly quick, although OpenBSD doesn't really need rebooting very often... I tend to get 'uptime' figures in weeks and usually don't reboot unless I am rebuilding a Kernel.

Disk IO is fast if you enable noatime and softdep on ffs and seems to waste far less space than journalling file systems.

Video offers DGA only when run in portrait mode.. other than that there is no acceleration. In standard landscape mode it uses a shadow buffer for X so no acceleration there. Perfectly fast enough for X tasks and for running ScummVM but I use my iPod for movies though.

USB Host is supported.. USB client isn't.

Wifi is supported... check out the OpenBSD pages for Wifi support.

CPU Frequency scaling is supported and can be enabled to scale performance if you wish.. I just use standard scaling.

Touchscreen, yes works perfectly

Audio model? - The OpenBSD audio subsystem provides OSS emulation if you want that kind of thing. although I haven't actually checked to see if recording or line in works.

Some ommisions : SD Card slot - I thought about porting this driver but it doesn't seem that important to many users, Bluetooth - there are mixed beliefs about the best way to implement this on BSD and it's a lot of work to have the source rejected because architecturally it isn't quite in keeping with the project. I gave up on porting Bluetooth because I couldn't get a consensus on how it should look on OpenBSD and I have little use for Bluetooth at the moment

-Andy
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 02:37:34 pm by iamasmith »
OpenBSD 4.2 -current on full 4Gb of SL-C3000
Microdrive replaced with 4Gb SanDisk Extreme III card

Glorin

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« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2006, 04:01:35 pm »
How i understand good reason start using openbsd ?
But i already try use freebsd like main os at my home PC and failed...
How about supporting linux (linux threads and some else i not remember) under openbsd ?

And i not understand why u-boot not support C3000 ? Problem in flash memory or in microdrive ?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 04:09:44 pm by Glorin »
Sharp SL-C3000
PdaXroM
CF ethernet TRENDnet
SD Kingstone 1 Gb
One more from Russia :)

iamasmith

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« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2006, 07:12:06 pm »
Quote
...
How about supporting linux (linux threads and some else i not remember) under openbsd ?

....
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128695\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

You get posix threads in OpenBSD.. you may not get all the pthread_np.h functions that you need though since these are noted as non posix extensions.

-Andy
« Last Edit: May 28, 2006, 07:13:32 pm by iamasmith »
OpenBSD 4.2 -current on full 4Gb of SL-C3000
Microdrive replaced with 4Gb SanDisk Extreme III card

sashz

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« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2006, 12:46:42 am »
Quote
And i not understand why u-boot not support C3000 ? Problem in flash memory or in microdrive ?

NO, if you want be betatester, PM me.

danboid

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« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2006, 11:29:09 am »
sashz told me somebody was supposed to be testing a new c3000 compatible pdaxrom yesterday- any news?
Zaurus SL-C3000 w/ MD swapped for a Kingston 32GB Ultimate 266X CF running ALARM
Banana Pi running ALARM on a WD Scorpio SATA II HD
System76 Gazelle Pro i7 laptop w/ SAMSUNG 840 EVO SSD running Arch x64

How to install Arch on your C3x00 Zaurus https://github.com/danboid/ZALARM-install

Glorin

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Thc, Iamasmith, Sashz..
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2006, 08:01:16 am »
Quote
sashz told me somebody was supposed to be testing a new c3000 compatible pdaxrom yesterday- any news?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128968\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Nope, still waiting...
Sharp SL-C3000
PdaXroM
CF ethernet TRENDnet
SD Kingstone 1 Gb
One more from Russia :)

danboid

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« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2006, 11:52:13 am »
Glorin: I presume you had PM'd sashz about being a beta tester then?
Zaurus SL-C3000 w/ MD swapped for a Kingston 32GB Ultimate 266X CF running ALARM
Banana Pi running ALARM on a WD Scorpio SATA II HD
System76 Gazelle Pro i7 laptop w/ SAMSUNG 840 EVO SSD running Arch x64

How to install Arch on your C3x00 Zaurus https://github.com/danboid/ZALARM-install

Glorin

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Thc, Iamasmith, Sashz..
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2006, 03:24:21 pm »
Yes, you right
Sharp SL-C3000
PdaXroM
CF ethernet TRENDnet
SD Kingstone 1 Gb
One more from Russia :)