Cheap way to develop with Linux on Z-SL-5600? Anyone?

[ClintReese]

Hi.  I\'ve been trying to develop on a Linux system for the Zaurus SL-5600 in some of my spare time for what seems like months now.  I have a good background in computer programming, so I should be able to do this with some time, effort and money.

Until recently, I thought that I was progressing well, because I:  1. Installed my first Linux system. 2. learned to use rcs, VI, etc. 3. Llearned to write shell scripts. 5. practiced using gcc, 6. Followed the instructions under the \"How to,\" \"Developing.\" \"compiler setup\" section of the \"Zaurususergroup\" successfully.  6.  Copied the resulting \"example\" application to the Zaurus through the \"File Transfer\" program on XP which shipped with the Zaurus.  \"Hurray!\" I thought.  \"All I need to do now is learn how to transfer files to and from the Z directly from my Linux box and I\'ll be programming!\"

That\'s when I ran into a brick wall which I\'ve had much difficulty scaling.  I\'ve spent over 40 hours this last week alone trying to get file transfer working on my Linux box.  I tried the \"RH( + connectivity\" \"how to.\"  I tried for many of those hours to compile a new kernel because I read that Linux 2.4.21 and above can support the Z natively.  I have successfully compiled and run a kernel 2.6.0 which recognizes the Z by name and manufacturer, and assigns it an address, but I haven\'t gotten usbnet working with that kernel, for some reason.

Here is my question:  How are other people developing on Linux?  Is anyone else developing on Linux?  I am willing to by a new computer, get a new distrbution of Linux, learn how to install it, etc.  I just want a reasonably inexpensive way to develop using Linux and this SL-5600. QT is even optional.  Has anyone else succeeded at doing something similar?  Is there anything that almost works out of the box. or am I going to have to write my own driver for connectivity?

Clint Reese

[clivel]

Here is my question:  How are other people developing on Linux?  Is anyone else developing on Linux?  I am willing to by a new computer, get a new distrbution of Linux, learn how to install it, etc.  I just want a reasonably inexpensive way to develop using Linux and this SL-5600. QT is even optional.  Has anyone else succeeded at doing something similar?  Is there anything that almost works out of the box. or am I going to have to write my own driver for connectivity?
Clint Reese

Hi Clint,
I took the easy way out, and use a compact flash reader to transfer the files to the Z.
However, I find that I only really need to transfer the files to the Z for final testing. Most of the time I use the emulator which works very well.
Regards,
Clive

[jdf]

Hi Clint,

I started all my fun aboyt 4 weeks ago.  I also came up with a strange method because I didn\'t have time to figure out connecting Zaurus to Linux and mostly becuase I am much more efficient using windows.  This is what I have:

1) I purchased the book C++ GUI Programming with Qt3 which comes with the windows Qt and borland compilers installed on my winXP box.

2) old laptop with Fedora Core1 installed and all the development tools.  I did the example programs on this and it worked fine on the frame buffer and compiled it for zaurus.  (lots of initial problems and trial and error and help from this board!)  It also is run on wired ethernet to my router.

3) Windows XP Computer with ethernet wired connection to router.  AND with Zaurus cradle connected through USB cable to winXP box.

4) Running SAMBA on the Linux laptop.  I figured out how to make the linux laptop hard drive a shared drive that is accessible in my Windows WorkGroup Network Neighborhood.   Whenever I work on the Linux box I work in the shared directory.  (I can\'t explain how I got SAMBA working.  It was a lot of trial and error and it started working and I just don\'t touch it since then!)

4) The Zaurus ALSO shows up in my Windows Workgroup whenever it is in cradle.  (don\'t need the \"FIle Transfer\" Program, just copy files to and from from using standard methods!)


So This is what I do:

1) Develop everything on the Windows computer.  Looking good and want to test for Zaurus?  then...
2) from the xp box, Copy current files to the Linux shared directory.  (I don\'t work in the shared directories because the linux box is usually off! So turn it on and copy!
3) Go to the Linux computer and edit the 1 or 2 lines that need changing for QPE then compile and test it in the framebuffer.
4) Need changes? Make them on windows and test again on Linux (switch computers again!)
5) Looking good in the frame buffer?  Then I rebuild it for arm on the Linux box.  I am working in the shared directories.
6)Want a full ipkg...then make it on the linux box in the shared ddirectory.
6) Goto the Windows computer and copy from the Linux shared drive to the Zaurus shared drive.
7) Run on Zaurus or install ipkg!

Sounds complicated, but I have gotten pretty fast at it by now!!  And using Windows and familiar systems let me be more productive since I can simultaneously do other things like edit work documents or check work email etc...all of which I cannot do on Linux efficiently because I don\'t know how and don\'t have time to learn...yet.  

For every 1 hour spend developing only about 5 minutes is on the Linux box now.

Seems like you should be able to add the ZAURUS samba mount directly to the Linux box, but I am comfortable with what I have, since I am primarily on the windows box.

here is the result of my trials over the last month!  I am glad I stuck it out!

http://www.delferro.net/zaurus

(hmmmm...seems to be down now, try later!)

Don\'t give up without a fight!! I am sure you can get a system that works for you!  And this board has been very friendly and helpful to me as a newbie.

JDF

[karmmisht]

I have a wireless network and use a WiFi CF card on the Z along with ssh and scp to login and transfer files to the Z.  If you don\'t already have one, it would be cheaper to buy the card rather than going out and buying another computer and you would also end up with another toy for your Z.

[jh]

Hi Clint,

I had great luck with a standard RedHat 9 installation (possibly updated from one of the many RPM/apt repositories).  I can just drop the Z in the USB cradle and it loads the USB network stuff and away I go.

I did have to recompile my kernel at work, since it was RedHat 8, but that wasn\'t too bad.  I\'d like to try a 2.6 kernel, but I\'m afraid I\'d lose my connectivity.

Someone else mentioned wireless... that\'s also a good option if you can swing the $60 - $100 (if you need a wireless router).

Another thing I\'ve been doing lately is writing my stuff in Python with PyQt.  I don\'t know how attached to C++ you are, but even though I\'m a C++ developer at work, it\'s kind of refreshing being able to write Python code that interacts with the Zaurus almost exactly like a C++/Qt app would.  Plus it\'s nice because I can do 99% of my development on my linux box and (like others have said) transfer it to my Zaurus when I want to test it and use it.

And of course, in a pinch you can always load up Kate on the Zaurus and edit your python script in a meeting (or class) if something goes wrong

Good luck!

jason

[lpotter]

I develop in linux, and windows. There are several ways to transfer files. I usually prefer ssh, and scp to transfer files. A card reader really helps for a zaurus thats not openzaurus. or the standard ftp to the zaurus on port 4242 works ok, when you have usbnet working.


Qt is never an option!

[dhns]

Here is my question:  How are other people developing on Linux?  Is anyone else developing on Linux?  I am willing to by a new computer, get a new distrbution of Linux, learn how to install it, etc.  I just want a reasonably inexpensive way to develop using Linux and this SL-5600. QT is even optional.  Has anyone else succeeded at doing something similar?  Is there anything that almost works out of the box. or am I going to have to write my own driver for connectivity?

Hi, I am programming on a Mac.

To transfer files, I either use

* samba/smb to mount the Zaurus on the file manager (Finder) and the simply copy files, or
* from within a makefile or shell script:

Code: [Select]

tar czf - files | ssh -l root 192.xxx.xxx.xxx \'cd /home/destination; tar xzfv -\'

This basically works over USB (using the Mac driver) and over WiFi whatever is available. ssh needs the openssh server to be installed on the Z first. To do this after a hard reset, I use the first method right out of the box.

Both methods should also work on other develoment host systems.

-- hns

[markb]

Hi Clint,

I\'m using red hat 8.0 on my laptop, and I had the same problems as you.
I couldn\'t get my zaurus & laptop to talk to each other.
None of the suggestions I found on the web worked.
(Lots of people said they worked for them. But I had no luck.)
Kernel patches wouldn\'t work, and I could never get the kernel to compile anyway.

So I ended up having to use a compact flash card to transfer files.
I think that\'s part of the reason why I lost interest in my Z.
It was a pain transferring to/from it, and if I let the battery run out then I lost all my data. So I never relied on it.
(I\'m still annoyed at Sharp for not getting linux connectivity sorted)

That was a couple of years ago, with an old SL-5000D.

A few months ago I read some advice that just said \"stop messing around with patches, and just get a new kernel\". So I did.
I looked around for a kernel that wouldn\'t give me any problems with my red hat installation. And I found this website:

http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/planetccrma/...elandsound.html

My current kernel is now 2.4.24-1.ll.rh80.ccrma

It may not be the best kernel to get, but it was the 1st one I found as an rpm, and it enabled me to connect to my Z for the 1st time.
I should warn that some things that used to work on my laptop, don\'t work any more. But nothing that causes me any problems.

It\'s still a bit fiiddly with my SL-5000D.
You have to have the power plugged in to the cradle.
Sometimes it doesn\'t work straight away, and I have to unplug the
usb cable from my laptop and plug it back in to the other usb port.

But now I have a C860, and I haven\'t had any problems at all.
Connection to my laptop always works.
telnet worked straight away.
ftp worked after I installed an ftp server onto the C860.

- Mark

[ClintReese]

<snip>

I took the easy way out, and use a compact flash reader to transfer the files to the Z.

<snip>

Clive

Thanks for the fast reply, Clive.   That sounds like a simple and fast solution.  I may use it some time.

Clint Reese

[ClintReese]

Hi Clint,

<snip>

So This is what I do:

<snip>

Sounds complicated, but I have gotten pretty fast at it by now!!  And using Windows and familiar systems 

<snip>

Seems like you should be able to add the ZAURUS samba mount directly to the Linux box, but I am comfortable with what I have, since I am primarily on the windows box.

<snip>

Don\'t give up without a fight!! I am sure you can get a system that works for you!  And this board has been very friendly and helpful to me as a newbie.

JDF

Thank you for the detailed desciption of a working development process, JDF.   A newbie like me likes detailed instructions.  Thanks for the hint about SAMBA, and thanks for th pep-talk.  I\'ll try to use this board more in the future.

Clint Reese

[ClintReese]

I have a wireless network and use a WiFi CF card on the Z along with ssh and scp to login and transfer files to the Z.  If you don\'t already have one, it would be cheaper to buy the card rather than going out and buying another computer and you would also end up with another toy for your Z.

There is another good hint!  Thanks karmmisht!

Clint Reese

[ClintReese]

Hi Clint,

<snip>

I did have to recompile my kernel at work, since it was RedHat 8, but that wasn\'t too bad.

<snip>
 
jason

Thanks for the reply, and thanks for telling me of a kernel upgrade that worked well for this.   I was beginning to think that I was going to wast e a lot of time with kernel upgrading.

Clint Reese

[ClintReese]

I develop in linux, and windows. There are several ways to transfer files. I usually prefer ssh, and scp to transfer files. A card reader really helps for a zaurus thats not openzaurus. or the standard ftp to the zaurus on port 4242 works ok, when you have usbnet working.


Qt is never an option!

Thanks for the reply, and the good information!  As I am going to mention in another reply, my Linux system recognizes the Zaurus as such and pings it now.   Usbnet seems to be working.  I\'m using the Rom whick shipped, and not OZ.

I should research the following more before I waste anyone\'s time here (unless someone wants to waste their time):
It hasn\'t been long since Usbnet started working on this Linux PC, and I\'m still trying to figure out what I\'m doing wrong with ftp, ssh, and scp.  I keep getting \"connection refused.\"

Thanks again!

Clint Reese

[ClintReese]

Hi, I am programming on a Mac.

To transfer files, I either use

Both methods should also work on other develoment host systems.

-- hns

Thanks!  I believe I will probably try this very soon.

Clint Reese

[ClintReese]

Hi Clint,

http://ccrma-www.stanford.edu/planetccrma/...elandsound.html

My current kernel is now 2.4.24-1.ll.rh80.ccrma

It may not be the best kernel to get, but it was the 1st one I found as an rpm, and it enabled me to connect to my Z for the 1st time.

<snip>

But now I have a C860, and I haven\'t had any problems at all.
Connection to my laptop always works.
telnet worked straight away.
ftp worked after I installed an ftp server onto the C860.

- Mark

Thanks Mark!

I just tried the kernel to which you linked.  It seems to have worked well so far.  My PC detects the Z as such, and pings it after I follow the instructions in the \"generic USB\" how-to!

It hasn\'t been long, so I don\'t want to waste your time with this:  I\'ve been getting \"connection refused\" for ssh and ftp.  Maybe I need to install an ftp server on the SL-5600?  I need to look into it, I guess.

Many thanks!

Clint Reese