USA Phone & Data Networks

[Ifanafi]

The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.

It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??  

Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...

(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)

--------------------

FYI

Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.

Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13

Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41

Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.

* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.

The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.

By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.

Ifanafi

[MikeC]

Here's a helpful link re: CDMA, GSM.

https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407896,00.asp

[MikeC]

The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.

It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??  

Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...

(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)

--------------------

FYI

Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.

Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13

Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41

Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.

* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.

The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.

By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.

Ifanafi

Verizon is moving to LTE entirely during 2019, so CDMA support will no longer be an issue. The real problem is that Verizon only allow certain devices on their network. Looking at it from their perspective, I can understand why -- you don't want to allow a device on your network that could damage it or interfere with your other customers. I don't know what Verizon requires manufacturers to do in order to get a device on the "permitted devices list". I asked them, and they wouldn't tell me. They said they'd only discuss the details with the manufacturer. I gave the appropriate contact details to both Verizon and Planet Computers Ltd.

It's particularly frustrating that in all the places I currently travel to, Verizon offers LTE service.

[andrewl]

Looking at it from their perspective, I can understand why -- you don't want to allow a device on your network that could damage it or interfere with your other customers.

I still don't understand from that perspective, when every other network seems to cope perfectly well without that restriction.

The more likely perspective is that they can wring more money out of people if they keep control of who can use their network. Wouldn't work with me though, I would just avoid them.

[Ifanafi]

The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.

It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??  

Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...

(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)

--------------------

FYI

Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.

Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13

Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41

Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.

* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.

The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.

By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.

Ifanafi

Verizon is moving to LTE entirely during 2019, so CDMA support will no longer be an issue. The real problem is that Verizon only allow certain devices on their network. Looking at it from their perspective, I can understand why -- you don't want to allow a device on your network that could damage it or interfere with your other customers. I don't know what Verizon requires manufacturers to do in order to get a device on the "permitted devices list". I asked them, and they wouldn't tell me. They said they'd only discuss the details with the manufacturer. I gave the appropriate contact details to both Verizon and Planet Computers Ltd.

It's particularly frustrating that in all the places I currently travel to, Verizon offers LTE service.

-----------------------------

USA cell carriers require phone manufacturers to submit their devices to an expensive ($100k+) several month review process for certification.
Planet has said they cannot $afford that necessity. And that is why the Gemini is not certified and has compatibility issues with the likes of Verizon.

[MikeC]

The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.

It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??  

Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...

(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)

--------------------

FYI

Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.

Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13

Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41

Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.

* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.

The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.

By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.

Ifanafi

Verizon is moving to LTE entirely during 2019, so CDMA support will no longer be an issue. The real problem is that Verizon only allow certain devices on their network. Looking at it from their perspective, I can understand why -- you don't want to allow a device on your network that could damage it or interfere with your other customers. I don't know what Verizon requires manufacturers to do in order to get a device on the "permitted devices list". I asked them, and they wouldn't tell me. They said they'd only discuss the details with the manufacturer. I gave the appropriate contact details to both Verizon and Planet Computers Ltd.

It's particularly frustrating that in all the places I currently travel to, Verizon offers LTE service.

-----------------------------

USA cell carriers require phone manufacturers to submit their devices to an expensive ($100k+) several month review process for certification.
Planet has said they cannot $afford that necessity. And that is why the Gemini is not certified and has compatibility issues with the likes of Verizon.

Could you point me to a link or two that describes this process? Thanks.

[Ifanafi]

The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.

It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??  

Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...

(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)

--------------------

FYI

Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.

Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13

Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41

Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.

* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.

The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.

By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.

Ifanafi

Verizon is moving to LTE entirely during 2019, so CDMA support will no longer be an issue. The real problem is that Verizon only allow certain devices on their network. Looking at it from their perspective, I can understand why -- you don't want to allow a device on your network that could damage it or interfere with your other customers. I don't know what Verizon requires manufacturers to do in order to get a device on the "permitted devices list". I asked them, and they wouldn't tell me. They said they'd only discuss the details with the manufacturer. I gave the appropriate contact details to both Verizon and Planet Computers Ltd.

It's particularly frustrating that in all the places I currently travel to, Verizon offers LTE service.

-----------------------------

USA cell carriers require phone manufacturers to submit their devices to an expensive ($100k+) several month review process for certification.
Planet has said they cannot $afford that necessity. And that is why the Gemini is not certified and has compatibility issues with the likes of Verizon.

Could you point me to a link or two that describes this process? Thanks.

------------------------------

By the way, Planet mentioned and Google searches confirmed that the smartphone certification process typically costs $15-$50 and up to 100K+ (testing and fees) and, therefore, Planet was not / is not still (if ever) able to afford the full gambit of tests. I think there is a post by Planet about that herein.

Anyway. There are several Telecommunication Certification Bodies (TCBs) and other FCC, GCF and other certification "labs" that review / approve new, smart phones (at the presale stage) for certification in the US, Europe and worldwide.

http://m2msupport.net/m2msupport/gcf-proce...frame-and-labs/
http://www.metlabs.com/services/wireless-a...-certification/
http://metlabs.com/services/wireless-and-r.../smart-devices/
https://www.icsalabs.com/
https://f2labs.com/
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014...ids-open-source

Some cell carriers like Verizon do their own testing: https://www.theverge.com/2016/2/27/11126390...e-test-lab-tour

Ifanafi

[Grench]

AT&T
I put my SIM card into my Gemini, powered it on and it simply worked.

Keep in mind that Planet is a European company selling a Eurpean GSM phone.  Most Europeans have absolutely no clue what the USA's CDMA phone networks thing is all about.  Every network in Europe is GSM.  From a European perspective, everything is GSM and phones can move from carrier to carrier with a simple card exchange.  Planet's PR people quite possibly had no idea that CDMA existed.

Trying to use a European GSM phone on a US CDMA carrier doesn't work any better than trying to take a CDMA phone to a GSM network in Europe.  Incompatible standards.

You could always switch carriers?

Verizon, Sprint and US Cellular are all CDMA.  I had service with US Cellular once - they were fantastic.  Left them because they were CDMA and I wanted more fun devices.

T-Mobile and AT&T are GSM.  There are exceptions, but if you want the best general compatibility with European devices or networks, these are the US companies with the most similar phones & systems.

[bled82]

Verizon Data works 4g LTE , no incoming text only outgoing , calls work .

[Ifanafi]

The point is that I and others explicitly asked Planet Computers if the Gemini would work on the Verizon network before we made the purchase. We were told it would work. Clearly that isn't the case.

It seems to me that the Gemini IS able to work on Verizon (some people seems to have got it working, with a LOT of hassle), but that Verizon doesn't WANT people to just use non-Verizon phones on their network...?? I have never understood "branding" phones to a network: Use, and follow, standards, and both the company AND the customers should have much less problems??  

Wonder if it will work if one is roaming on their network?? Anyone with a Gemini from outside USA visiting there for a summer holiday (or work, for that matter) who can check it out?? If it DOES work without any hassle, it should REALLY prove that the problem is PURELY Verizon acting difficult towards their customers...

(I've never understood why people think it is cheaper, or better, to buy a phone as a "subscription" than to pay for it directly. Everybody knows you shouldn't buy things on credit, so why don't they apply that to phones as well? But it is becoming the trend also in Norway to buy your phone through the carriers, unfortunately...)

--------------------

FYI

Too many hours spent deep-diving into this Verizon vs Gemini issue online and in-store with competent Verizon tech support help.

Carrier: Verizon
Network: CDMA
Frequencies: 1900, 1700/2100, 850, *700
Bands used: 2, 4, *13

Gemini
Networks: GSM, CDMA
Frequencies: 850/1900 MHz BC0 BC1+ EVDO
Bands used: 1/2/3/4/5/7/12/17/20/41

Notice that the Gemini has neither the 700 MHz frequency nor band 13; the absence of which makes the Gemini pretty much incompatible with Verizon or, at best, unstable / dysfunctional.
In other words, a Gemini with a Verizon SIM is one huge, problematic headache trying to make it work 100% as a cell phone (as claimed in a cavalier, broad brush way by Planet) and messaging device.

* Main frequency and band number Verizon uses that neither of which the Gemini has.

The Gemini has SIM slots / is configured to support foreign, GSM networks as "world phones." That is irrelevant to Verizon Network users.

By the way, Verizon does not support "roam" - so says their tech support dept. because their nationwide coverage is far and wide... almost blanket like.

Ifanafi

-----------------------

UPDATE: Defection

Given the known, confirmed and chronic issues the Verizon network has with the Gemini (4G, WiFi), this morning I ported 4 phones from Verizon to MetroPCS' (T-Mobile) Unlimited Plan. Currently that plan requires 4 lines to qualify for activation. Plans change often.

Anyway. Going forward my total monthly cost for all 4 lines is a stunningly low $100 (all inclusive of taxes, fees, surcharges and other BS charges). Such a deal!

By the way, that unlimited everything plan has a 35GB ceiling before one receives a warning message about possible throttling down of services.

Now my Gemini works well as a phone… at last!

Ifanafi

P.s. Planet support will surely welcome this as good news because I have been a prickly barb in their rumps over Verizon's dysfunctional-to-incompatible issues with the Gemini.

UPDATE: I disabled WiFi and now enjoy reliable downloads and Internet over cell data. The likelihood of our 4 lines reaching 35GB of data is unlikely.

Now I use WiFi only at home / office because of close proximity to my router. And infrequently when traveling AND ONLY with WiFi Privacy protection app (from Symantec Norton - an affordable, annual subscription required).

Onward we Gemini soldiers march!

[PJS]

@Ifanafi

I don't think FCC or UL/ETL/etc safety testing has much of anything to do with
the kinds of approvals a company like Verizon wants.    

FCC testing is just to prove an radio emitting device complies with technical
transmission & non-interference standards.  Places like UL, Metlabs (and
others) do testing for safety standards (that you don't get electrocuted,
etc.), AFAIK.

Carriers like Verizon want to put their proprietary s/w on phones using their
networks.  In the specific case of Verizon, they're famous for their "super
cookie" insertition, etc.

From what I've seen with T-Mobile, they don't *require* their s/w be installed,
but unapproved devices are deprived from their "value added" services...
CallerID, Wifi calling, etc.

The fact that people here have connected their phones to almost all the US
networks in limited ways appears to me to reflect the networks will tolerate
the "unapproved" GSM Gemini's.

But the fact that connections are to varying degrees spotty (with the possible
exception of AT&T?) - reportedly more or less half the US frequencies seem to
be supported by the second-rate MediaTek chipset - appears to reflect a major
Gemini shortcoming for North American usage.

I wish a simple firmware reflash could improve the MediaTek performance.  :/

Is Planet Computing OK with writing off a 340-500 million potential North
American customers as things are now?   ...or do they have to be AT&T users?

Sure would be nice if Planet Computers would comment on all this.

Thanks,

PJS

[Grench]

...

But the fact that connections are to varying degrees spotty (with the possible
exception of AT&T?) - reportedly more or less half the US frequencies seem to
be supported by the second-rate MediaTek chipset - appears to reflect a major
Gemini shortcoming for North American usage.

I wish a simple firmware reflash could improve the MediaTek performance.  :/

Is Planet Computing OK with writing off a 340-500 million potential North
American customers as things are now?   ...or do they have to be AT&T users?

Sure would be nice if Planet Computers would comment on all this.

Thanks,

PJS

There is nothing wrong with the Mediatek chipset.  It is primarily a GSM chipset for the European market.  In the US, the mobile phone networks are divided into two types of systems.  GSM and CDMA.  If you're on a CDMA, your phone will generally not travel with you to a GSM network.  Neither will a GSM phone typically travel with you to a CDMA network.

https://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407896,00.asp

I'm actually kind of shocked that the Gemini works on any CDMA networks at all.

[defunked]

Verizon Data works 4g LTE , no incoming text only outgoing , calls work .

After many many many calls to customer service, I have a SIM card in my Gemini with working data on the US Verizon network.  The card had to be activated in a Verizon branded phone first, then moved to the Gemini.  I had to manually set the Data Access Point Name to "vzwinternet" and the connection name to "Verizon".  I would have thought the connection name was unimportant, but it seems to matter.

Problems I noted so far:

1.  Data roaming had to be turned on for data to work when using many Verizon cell towers even though the MMC = 311 and MNC =480 of the towers.  These are Verizon native towers, but data would not work unless I had roaming on.

2. There was a spot or two while drive 100+ miles where I lost coverage due to a tower using band 13 (as indicated by a Verizon branded phone).  Band 13 is not supported by the Gemini.

3. With the CE edition of sailfish, I can not send or receive SMS messages.  I can receive a phone call, but after the call completes, Sailfish complains that the SIM card is missing until I reboot the device. Sailfish can not originate calls (no service error) even though data is working.

I am also having trouble getting the Gemini/Sailfish to stop connecting to some rough network named "213423" with a corresponding MMC = 213 and MNC =423, which is strange because MMC = 213 is not for cell sites in the USA.  When Gemini switches to this network, I need to turn airplane mode on and off again to get it to go back to Verizon.

When I have the stomach for Verizon tech support, I will call them about the roaming bug and the 213423 network, which seem to be a provisioning problem with my SIM/account.

[Ifanafi]

Verizon Data works 4g LTE , no incoming text only outgoing , calls work .

After many many many calls to customer service, I have a SIM card in my Gemini with working data on the US Verizon network.  The card had to be activated in a Verizon branded phone first, then moved to the Gemini.  I had to manually set the Data Access Point Name to "vzwinternet" and the connection name to "Verizon".  I would have thought the connection name was unimportant, but it seems to matter.

Problems I noted so far:

1.  Data roaming had to be turned on for data to work when using many Verizon cell towers even though the MMC = 311 and MNC =480 of the towers.  These are Verizon native towers, but data would not work unless I had roaming on.

2. There was a spot or two while drive 100+ miles where I lost coverage due to a tower using band 13 (as indicated by a Verizon branded phone).  Band 13 is not supported by the Gemini.

3. With the CE edition of sailfish, I can not send or receive SMS messages.  I can receive a phone call, but after the call completes, Sailfish complains that the SIM card is missing until I reboot the device. Sailfish can not originate calls (no service error) even though data is working.

I am also having trouble getting the Gemini/Sailfish to stop connecting to some rough network named "213423" with a corresponding MMC = 213 and MNC =423, which is strange because MMC = 213 is not for cell sites in the USA.  When Gemini switches to this network, I need to turn airplane mode on and off again to get it to go back to Verizon.

When I have the stomach for Verizon tech support, I will call them about the roaming bug and the 213423 network, which seem to be a provisioning problem with my SIM/account.

------------------------------

Two Saturdays ago I stood by and watched a competent Verizon tech (asst mngr) do all that you mentioned and yet she failed to make my Gemini fully functional and compatible with Verizon.

Invariably everything tried would not take permanently. And what seemed to take would be lost after the Gem was restarted.

A huge failing with the Gemini's incompatibility with Verizon is the inability to add APNs and save with permanence edits to any of the Gem's listed Verizon APNs. Tweaked APN info either did not reappear among the list of installed Verizon APNs; or when it did once save and appear, the device remained unacceptably less than 100% functional. Furthermore, I did not like changing the various settings to accommodate my situational usage needs such as you mention.

So, fook'em.

All that capped off and ended too many weeks of failed efforts to make my Gem work well, without any dysfunction like those you describe, and that I, too, experienced with the Verizon SIM. Enough already. The fact remains that the device is designed and optimized for European users and unfortunately flawed for USA users on CDMA nets like Verizon.

That situational predicament Planet placed smartphone users like me in is disconcerting given the size of the US market for a device like the Gemini, even if it mostly garners niche interest from techie / Linux users over smartphone users like me.

Realizing and accepting that disappointing situation necessitated my porting four phone lines away from Verizon and end the trial-and-error processes I slgged through since receiving my Gem June 5th.

BTW, my deep, comparative research into this CDMA incompatibility issue (which I speculate Planet DID NOT DO SO THOROUGHLY AS ME) and learned understanding of GSM-enabled US cell carriers led me to choose MetroPCS / T-Mobile-Sprint (I live in the US mid-Atlantic region). Only switching cell carrier made my Gemini a fully functional 4G WiFi device, at last (and now costs me just $100 monthly - a welcomed upside I see as resulting compensation for nearly two months of aggravation caused by owning a Gemini).

Cheers!

P.S. Although I have stated often that I look forward to Gemini 2.0 - I shall not back it if Planet fails to choose a better, USA-cell marketplace accommodating chip set AND program the Android AND Sailfish OSs to be both 100% compatible and fully functional OUT OF THE BOX as a 4G-5G WiFi smartphone device on all but the smallest of US cell nets.

Ifanafi

------------------------------

[defunked]

Verizon Data works 4g LTE , no incoming text only outgoing , calls work .

After many many many calls to customer service, I have a SIM card in my Gemini with working data on the US Verizon network.  The card had to be activated in a Verizon branded phone first, then moved to the Gemini.  I had to manually set the Data Access Point Name to "vzwinternet" and the connection name to "Verizon".  I would have thought the connection name was unimportant, but it seems to matter.

Problems I noted so far:

1.  Data roaming had to be turned on for data to work when using many Verizon cell towers even though the MMC = 311 and MNC =480 of the towers.  These are Verizon native towers, but data would not work unless I had roaming on.

2. There was a spot or two while drive 100+ miles where I lost coverage due to a tower using band 13 (as indicated by a Verizon branded phone).  Band 13 is not supported by the Gemini.

3. With the CE edition of sailfish, I can not send or receive SMS messages.  I can receive a phone call, but after the call completes, Sailfish complains that the SIM card is missing until I reboot the device. Sailfish can not originate calls (no service error) even though data is working.

I am also having trouble getting the Gemini/Sailfish to stop connecting to some rough network named "213423" with a corresponding MMC = 213 and MNC =423, which is strange because MMC = 213 is not for cell sites in the USA.  When Gemini switches to this network, I need to turn airplane mode on and off again to get it to go back to Verizon.

When I have the stomach for Verizon tech support, I will call them about the roaming bug and the 213423 network, which seem to be a provisioning problem with my SIM/account.

------------------------------

Two Saturdays ago I stood by and watched a competent Verizon tech (asst mngr) do all that you mentioned and yet she failed to make my Gemini fully functional and compatible with Verizon.

Invariably everything tried would not take permanently. And what seemed to take would be lost after the Gem was restarted.

A huge failing with the Gemini's incompatibility with Verizon is the inability to add APNs and save with permanence edits to any of the Gem's listed Verizon APNs. Tweaked APN info either did not reappear among the list of installed Verizon APNs; or when it did once save and appear, the device remained unacceptably less than 100% functional. Furthermore, I did not like changing the various settings to accommodate my situational usage needs such as you mention.

So, fook'em.

All that capped off and ended too many weeks of failed efforts to make my Gem work well, without any dysfunction like those you describe, and that I, too, experienced with the Verizon SIM. Enough already. The fact remains that the device is designed and optimized for European users and unfortunately flawed for USA users on CDMA nets like Verizon.

That situational predicament Planet placed smartphone users like me in is disconcerting given the size of the US market for a device like the Gemini, even if it mostly garners niche interest from techie / Linux users over smartphone users like me.

Realizing and accepting that disappointing situation necessitated my porting four phone lines away from Verizon and end the trial-and-error processes I slgged through since receiving my Gem June 5th.

BTW, my deep, comparative research into this CDMA incompatibility issue (which I speculate Planet DID NOT DO SO THOROUGHLY AS ME) and learned understanding of GSM-enabled US cell carriers led me to choose MetroPCS / T-Mobile-Sprint (I live in the US mid-Atlantic region). Only switching cell carrier made my Gemini a fully functional 4G WiFi device, at last (and now costs me just $100 monthly - a welcomed upside I see as resulting compensation for nearly two months of aggravation caused by owning a Gemini).

Cheers!

P.S. Although I have stated often that I look forward to Gemini 2.0 - I shall not back it if Planet fails to choose a better, USA-cell marketplace accommodating chip set AND program the Android AND Sailfish OSs to be both 100% compatible and fully functional OUT OF THE BOX as a 4G-5G WiFi smartphone device on all but the smallest of US cell nets.

Ifanafi

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I started out trying AT&T.  That was even worse than Verizon out here in the Western Slope of Colorado.  AT&T has a single 4G LTE tower in a two county area.  All other towers are UMTS, in spite of the wonderful map their marking people have created that shows solid LTE coverage.  Maybe I should bring this false advertising up with the US Commerce Department.  Good luck to me on that. I think the broader problem is that US cellular providers suck. And a total failure of the US Government to require meaningful inter-operational regulations, portability, and standard compliance in exchange for the operators using our spectrum.  While I would love to use T-Mobile, I live in a T-Mobile coverage hole.  I had a really good experience with T-Mobile years ago, before they kicked me off there network for living in a roaming area.  I don't blame them.  It's was me who deceived them to get the service in the first place.  Oh how I wish T-Mobile had service here.

As I mentioned previously, the Verizon problem appears to be provisioning, not the Gemini hardware, except for the lack of band 13/700MHz.  

Regarding US band difficulty on the Gemini, and to Planet Computers' defense:
Every modern cellular modem has a baseband section, and an RF section, often in the same IC  The baseband section is the same for all radio bands of operation since the underlying modulation is the same regardless of what radio band is being used.  The RF section, with it's programmable I/Q modulator/demodulators can usually be tuned over most of the radio spectrum between 500 MHz and 6 GHz on the same IC. The front end Low Noise Amplifiers and RF driver amplifiers are also typically broadband as well.  The trouble is with the interface between the amplifiers and the antenna:
1.  A switchable RF filter is required for EACH band of operation,s both to clean up the transmitted signal before it hits the air, and to isolate the transmit and receive signal paths, which operate simultaneously, on different frequencies through a common antenna.  (unlike WiFi where transmit and receive take turns on the same frequency). So even if the RF section can cover the entire spectrum of 500 MHz to 6 GHz, you still need to put a filter on the circuit board for EACH band.  That ends up using a lot of space in the PCB.

2. The antenna inside the Gemini is small.  It is very difficult to design an antenna of that size that is both efficient, and can cover a large number of RF bands. I have yet to see an OEM antenna from any manufacturer that covers ALL the bands in the USA with any respectable performance specifications.  Especially with the addition of the old UHF TV 700 MHz band, which with it's lower frequency as compared to the other bands, makes the antenna larger.  When the USA thinks it's special and it's going to go do thing's it's own way, this is what you get.

Take a look at the IoT radio modules from companies like Telit.  There are always different modules for the US than for the rest of the world.  They are pin compatible, but have different filters in the guts, and no antenna. They kick the antenna problem out to the user.