Zaurus 5500 Lifespan

[omro]

Hi All,

Ok, this will sound like I'm knocking the Zaurus and the work that people have done to improve it. I'm not really, I do appreciate both, I was just wondering what people's thoughts were.

My Zaurus 5500 must be nearly two years old now, if not older, I can't quite remember when I bought it, seems like ages ago now.

There have been a few upgrades to the Sharp Rom in the dim and distant past and it seems like Sharp themselves have abandoned the product. TheKompany ROM improved upon the Sharp Rom a little, but seems to have died on this model as well. I don't really know much about the other Roms that are compatible with this model, though emphasis does seem to be on the C series Zaurii.

OpenZaurus (OpenEmbedded) seems to be the only way to upgrade the ROM and Apps on this particular model, but while that's great to have an operating system future for this device, there doesn't seem to have been much development on the core apps for a PDA (The PIM and Word Processor and Spreadsheet). Application development seems to be continuing for the more esoteric applications, which is cool that these devices can be tailored for such varied niche uses.

PDA computing in general with Linux seems even further behind the rivals than it seemed when I bought the Zaurus. The competition's software looks much more attractive and useable.

I've found over the time that I've had it that the Zaurus has been more of a "test this, try that, install this, flash that" type of product for me, rather than something I've used consistently, constructively and enjoyably.

You are quite welcome to state a different view point to my observations.

What I'm wondering is... is there really much point sticking with a Z5500? Will the operating system and core apps really improve? Will they improve more quickly and with more focus now that OpenEmbedded is behind the scenes? Will they ever catch up to the core apps on Pocket PC for example? How much of a lifespan does the Z5500 still have? And should someone really bother with sticking to a Linux PDA in the future?

[lardman]

I think there's still life in the beast yet :-)

Certainly OE is the way to go, and it will provide fresh releases and updated software.

I don't think the PIM apps are too bad to tell the truth; there's certainly things to be done - integration with Windows I suppose.

Word processors are big endevours, so your best bet there is to wait for the textmaker(?) app (which is pay-ware), or to see what you can start porting to Qtopia. There's a basic spreadsheet app for opie - opie-sheet - it needs work, but doesn't everything ;-)


Si

[omro]

Do you think it will be worth the wait?
And that OE will gather steam?

I would have thought that developing an OpenEmbeddedOffice would be useful project.....

All other views on my original post are welcome :-)

I find this all interesting.

[lardman]

Do you think it will be worth the wait?

Yes. Definitely.

And that OE will gather steam?

It has already gathered a fair amount of steam, there are a number of active developers (but of course more are always needed).

Take a look at the oe mailing list, linked from http://openembedded.org/wiki

I would have thought that developing an OpenEmbeddedOffice would be useful project.....

I agree, but it's also a rather involved project which requires a number of developers and a lot of commitment. I have little need for a full-blown word processing package most of the time, and this is presumably what's stopping others from developing one.

A better spreadsheet would be a good thing though...


Si

[omro]

Definitely, a new spreadsheet app would be nice

[Teletubbie]

Hi,
full ACK with lardman and the future of SL-5500G. So I use this Thread to post some screenshots running OZ3.3.6-pre1/Opie1.1.4 based on hentges rom. (ok, they are german)

So these are my pim:
[img]http://teletubbie.hentges.net/screenshots/pim.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
The mail app is opiemail3 (Pops, Imap+SSL+Secureport). You can also use kopi/kapi and kphonepi. I recompiled that with gcc 3.3.2 for the rom using openembedded.

Here is the feed:
http://teletubbie.hentges.net/feed/

Here are the apps:

[img]http://teletubbie.hentges.net/screenshots/appsone.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
[img]http://teletubbie.hentges.net/screenshots/appstwo.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]

Ok, for hancom, qpdf2 and opera I use compat libs.

Here are the lovely icons on settings:
 [img]http://teletubbie.hentges.net/screenshots/settingsone.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]

Talking about Textprocessing, you can see Latex running on Zaurus:
[img]http://teletubbie.hentges.net/screenshots/wordproone.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]

And view the outcome:
[img]http://teletubbie.hentges.net/screenshots/wordprotwo.png\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]

And no the OZ dont crashes daily. There are new OE Kernels and new pcmcia_cs.
You can find all the stuff on hentges. The OE Kernels are provided with the 1.1.4 rom.
Just to give an Impression.
Cheers,
Sam

[omro]

Since all of your screenshots are from 3.3.6 and using OPIE, out of curiosity, how relevant are they to the future of the 5500?

Because, isn't OZ 3.5 moving over to GPE?

Will the same apps be available for use under GPE or will there be a whole new set of apps to use instead?

[elvis]

I have a 5500 and I am asking myself the same question. I am vacillating between selling it and getting myself a 6000L or selling it and getting a Japanese subnotebook (Toshiba Portege R100 or maybe the Panasonic W2) and a Palm PDA. Sure the subnotebook + Palm will put me back $2K versus $700 for the 6000L but the performance/price ratio would probably be greater if i went with the subnotebook and PDA rather than the Zaurus. This is especially true when I consider the fact I spent most of my time with the Z flashing/test/flash/test/.... rather than just working with it. The crazy price of the 6000L doesn't seem to be worth it considering you can get a subnotebook with all its capabilities and more + larger screen. Pair that with a $200 Palm pilot (which you can SYNC with linux) and the Zaurus line seems like a poor investment.

[lpotter]

Trolltech continues to work on Qtopia. We are about to be release 2.1 in the near future. Rumors have it that with this release, should come a "non supported" Zaurus rom based on OZ, with Qtopia 2.1.

[omro]

I just went Mac with a 12" Powerbook, so that's very portable and nice, but of course Zaurus and Mac aren't as friendly towards one another as Mac and Palm, though I don't like Palm devices...

I honestly like my 5500, the size is good though starting to look a bit chunky, the keyboard is great compared to the alternatives, it's fun to faff with every now and then and flash it to something new.

BUT.

The applications are weak. Syncing to anything PC, Mac, Linux is weak.

For me it's a hobby device rather than a truly useful device, which is a shame.

I prefer OZ to the Sharp or tKC Roms which I have tried. I've not yet tried to Cacko Roms. Unfortunately not all apps work very well with OZ.

I just hope that when OZ 3.5 turns up there is a nice list of applications and rather than just the geek friendly apps, that there is a shift in emphasis towards creating PocketPC/Palm equivalent apps that useful to the general user, such as a decent word processor, spreadsheet, PIM and media application.

I don't wish to sound critical, since I can't program and can't help.

Maybe some of the OE developers might consider doing a tutorial series on how the operating system fits together for OE and idiot's guides to OE programming, turn some of us non programming posters into programmers too or at least code checkers or something?

[mk500]

I have a 5500 and I am asking myself the same question. I am vacillating between selling it and getting myself a 6000L or selling it and getting a Japanese subnotebook (Toshiba Portege R100 or maybe the Panasonic W2) and a Palm PDA. Sure the subnotebook + Palm will put me back $2K versus $700 for the 6000L but the performance/price ratio would probably be greater if i went with the subnotebook and PDA rather than the Zaurus. This is especially true when I consider the fact I spent most of my time with the Z flashing/test/flash/test/.... rather than just working with it. The crazy price of the 6000L doesn't seem to be worth it considering you can get a subnotebook with all its capabilities and more + larger screen. Pair that with a $200 Palm pilot (which you can SYNC with linux) and the Zaurus line seems like a poor investment.

The Zaurus is definitely more of a "hobbyist" machine than a Palm or sub-notebook. But there is so much potential for upgrade and OS choice.  Why not consider a 760 or 860. They are very compatible with much of the development being done, cheaper than a 6000, smaller than a 6000, every bit as capable as the 6000, etc.

I really enjoy my 760, and use it in portrait mode 90% of the time. I can type quite fast on the on-screen keyboard, and the 480x640 gives a whole new level of sharpness. Plus, I can always swivel around if I am really doing hardcore typing and have a really large keyboard.

I've been considering getting a subnotebook too, but there are two pretty big drawbacks:

1) hard drive: noise, reliability, power (extremely short battery life)
2) size & weight: the only one that is close to 760 is the OQO which will be $$$

[omro]

I see where you are coming from with what you say, but I'm put off from the C series due to the following reasons:

1) There isn't a proper british version.
2) They are quite old now, so I'd buy one and then they'd release something new and cooler and annoy me.
3) The apps are still the apps on the other Zaurii and therefore, uninspiring.

[Mickeyl]

I'm still pretty satisfied with the 5500 and I think it will use it for another couple of years.

A new release of OZ is imminent (no, we're not moving to GPE, we just integrated it into the build system, so that we can ship bootstrap images, Opie images, GPE images, etc.), most 2.6 kernel work is done for collie, and people seem to be very satisfied with the new breed of applications, e.g. kdepimpi, wellenreiter (although picky about its environment), opie-eye, opie-mail3, and the like.

Same goes for my C7x0, although support for it is a bit less good, much due to the amount of closed source - read Qtopia/Sharp, AtiCore, libsl, etc.

As much as OpenEmbedded is concerned, this received so much interest beyond the Zaurus community that it will be much more useful than we ever thought.

[omro]

That sounds promising. Perhaps Open Embedded was the push that the platform needed to give it that kick up the backside to actually put up a united front again the competition of Palm/PocketPC.

As I've said before, I wish I was a programmer, my mind just isn't that well designed for such things, as I really do find operating systems quite interesting.

What are the core apps for OE/OZ?

I thought the newsletter said that the next releases of OZ were ditching Opie in favour of GPE.

[lokki]

I'm still pretty satisfied with the 5500 and I think it will use it for another couple of years.

A new release of OZ is imminent (no, we're not moving to GPE, we just integrated it into the build system, so that we can ship bootstrap images, Opie images, GPE images, etc.), most 2.6 kernel work is done for collie, and people seem to be very satisfied with the new breed of applications, e.g. kdepimpi, wellenreiter (although picky about its environment), opie-eye, opie-mail3, and the like.

Same goes for my C7x0, although support for it is a bit less good, much due to the amount of closed source - read Qtopia/Sharp, AtiCore, libsl, etc.

As much as OpenEmbedded is concerned, this received so much interest beyond the Zaurus community that it will be much more useful than we ever thought.

Mickey, I'm really glad to hear you say this.  Where should we track this "imminent" release?  Here?  Openembedded.org?  Openzaurus.org?