A few questions about OZ/OE

[iamasmith]

Hi,

<OLDGRIPE>
I used to use Familiar Linux with OPIE on my old H3660 and H3970 iPAQs - got up to version 7.2 familiar with the latest OPIE builds but always found the package feeds let me down in some way. Either some fairly critical application like OPIEMAIL would sigsegv when run or something hadn't been ported and I was forced to switch to the unstable feed to get something and then I was into updates of a lot of the supporting libraries that I didn't necessarily want to have.
</OLDGRIPE>

I am REALLY happy with the general staibility of apps using Cacko ROM and have quite a few favourite Z apps now, what I am not so happy about though it the age of the development environment and the aging version of GCC etc. So I have a few questions ..

* What is the typical position regarding applications written for Sharp ROMs working on OZ 3.5.1, I'm presuming that there's C runtime stuff that may cause some problems - Is the suggestion essentially to try to recompile for OE ?

* What is the position on ATI W100 accelerated frame buffer support on OZ 3.5.1 - is there any ? - My Z is a valuable tool but it's also a pretty groovy toy at the moment - let's not lose perspective here  - I would like to keep it as both.  

* Do you get the ability to ZOOM applications on the VGA models, I have an SL-C860 and some apps like PRBOOM really need 320x240 to get the performance.

* Please tell me more about the VT switching stuff. Is this what it sounds like ? can you VT switch away from the OPIE environment to a text console ? - You couldn't by any chance maintain GPE on a seperate VT could you ?

* Does the distribution differ to the Familiar/OPIE implementation i.e. Typical Sharp ROM has read only ROOT and mechanism for populating the user partition with typical settings - can be reset to default by reformatting user partition - great idea. Typical Familiar/OPIE is base image and you can upgrade all stuff in base image with ipkg update/upgrade. Both systems have their own merits. What's the idea with OZ 3.5.1 on an 860 ? Do you get a writable root ?, Do you actually still have the concept of a root/home partition set in flash ?

OK, thanks in advance for anyone who takes the time to answer any of these questions for me.

- Andy

[lardman]

* What is the typical position regarding applications written for Sharp ROMs working on OZ 3.5.1, I'm presuming that there's C runtime stuff that may cause some problems - Is the suggestion essentially to try to recompile for OE ?

libc is backwards compatible and you can use the compat libs to run C++ GCC2.xx programs, so although it would be nice to recompile everything, it's not necessary as pretty much everything will work.

* What is the position on ATI W100 accelerated frame buffer support on OZ 3.5.1 - is there any ? - My Z is a valuable tool but it's also a pretty groovy toy at the moment - let's not lose perspective here - I would like to keep it as both.

Not sure about this. I think Mickeyl was talking about adding in the lib which Sash created. Not sure whether he did or not. That said, Opie on my C750 is just as snappy as cacko/pdaXrom ever were (I've not tried GPE).

* Do you get the ability to ZOOM applications on the VGA models, I have an SL-C860 and some apps like PRBOOM really need 320x240 to get the performance.

Not that I've seen. This would be useful I agree. It may be possible but I just don't know how (haven't really needed it).

* Please tell me more about the VT switching stuff. Is this what it sounds like ? can you VT switch away from the OPIE environment to a text console ? - You couldn't by any chance maintain GPE on a seperate VT could you ?

Yes and it should be possible if you have enough space. Take a look on the mailing list (and in the forum), I've read of a couple of people asking about this and one who was in the process of trying it out.

* Does the distribution differ to the Familiar/OPIE implementation i.e. Typical Sharp ROM has read only ROOT and mechanism for populating the user partition with typical settings - can be reset to default by reformatting user partition - great idea. Typical Familiar/OPIE is base image and you can upgrade all stuff in base image with ipkg update/upgrade. Both systems have their own merits. What's the idea with OZ 3.5.1 on an 860 ? Do you get a writable root ?, Do you actually still have the concept of a root/home partition set in flash ?

OZ is much the same as familiar; the difference between an iPAQ or 5500 and a C machine is that on the C machines the /home partition is not touched by a flash so your files and settings remain intact across re-flashes.


Si

[iamasmith]

Thanks for your response Si,

I like the idea of GPE on a seperate VT etc. so I just need to have a think about what I might want to run on it.

Actually, here's an interesting one then.. what about SDL ?? is SDL OPIE only or is there a GPE SDL.... I presume you have to pick one or the other ?

Oh, BTW: Do you know if there's ext3 support in the Kernel or via an add-on module ?

Just thought of another thing, I presume that OPIE runs the suspend/resume just like Qtopia does. And I presume that GPE runs suspend/resume too. Does this mean that if I'm using one environment I have to disable the inactivity timers on the other so that the 'idle' environment doesn't suspend me whilst I'm working on the other.... come to think of it does this effect the console when you are VT'd out ? - actually I guess there must be some sort of arbiter for the button wake up stuff too. Otherwise if you were running OPIE and GPE and you suspended, how would OZ know which environment to switch to if you woke up with say the Calendar button. - Anyone tried this ? Anyone know ?

And one last thing... since you say that OZ doens't erase the user partition should I be using option 3 from the Japanese power on menu (hold down the OK button) to erase the user partition after my first OZ install so that I have a clean user partition.

Regards,

- Andy

[lardman]

I don't know about SDL, or whether there's an ext3 module. Nor so I know much about the suspend system, but I presume that you'd have to disable one or the other.

You'd be better off asking these on the openzaurus-users mailing list imo.

And one last thing... since you say that OZ doens't erase the user partition should I be using option 3 from the Japanese power on menu (hold down the OK button) to erase the user partition after my first OZ install so that I have a clean user partition.

I never even realised this was what it did :-), but I don't see why not (I just stripped out the old stuff by hand after switching back after testing Cacko and pdaXrom).


Si

[iamasmith]

Cool, thanks again Si,

I might just give it all a go when I get some time - I was just wondering if anyone on the forum had tried all this yet.

BTW: The suspend stuff could be really nasty because unless both OPIE and  GPE use and integrated framework whichever was idle may well suspend the box while you are using the other one.

Ah well, I guess we will find out sooner or later.

Will post back results as I find out (unless someone answers first).

- Andy

[iamasmith]

Hmm, well that was interesting.

I may try again when this goes 'stable' for the next time.

Observations.

i. There doesn't seem to be a clean way of clearing your /home partition other than booting to a Cacko/other installer and formatting it from there. - Option 3 from the japanese OK menu doesn't (it does on a Sharp ROM).
ii. Power management is indeed at the mercy of OPIE on that image, therefore if you are working on the console VT OPIE can suspend you.
iii. The task-gpe-base package suggested in one of the other threads says that there are some missing dependencies and doesn't setup GPE on VT 3 as suggested.
iv. The Package manager GUI is pretty flaky, it enters the feed twice in the GUI, delete one and it deletes both. - This seems to be a GUI flaw.
v. Launch the Calendar or the Address book from SUSPENDED using the buttons, just when you want the apps to appear with the minimum of 'hands on' and they appear at 320x240 in the middle of the screen. Close the apps and when you launch them with the pen they remember the 320x240 configuration until you maximise them and close them - Actually some of this may be related to fast load. Not sure.
vi. No there didn't seem to be an ext3 module in the base image, couldn't find one on the feed either. Treated my SD card as ext2. - Good job I dd'd it first. (well I could have tuned it back to ext3 but anyway...)

BTW: I did do an ipkg update and ipkg upgrade off the feed.

Aside from that it looks quite pretty and I'm sure if my criteria was that I wanted ONE of the environments, not both it would be great.

Unfortunately my most useful criteria is a stable, fast Qtopia compatible environment at the moment so I don't think it quite cuts it.

Anyway, it was interesting to see what it looked like.

Thanks for the responses anyway.

Actually one final thing. I really think that there's a lot of good work here. I'm not having a go, just reporting my findings. Keep up the good work. It's just not quite right for me at the moment.

- Andy

[iamasmith]

*SORTA BUMP*

I'm sort of bumping this for a couple of reasons... I try OZ/OE, I'm not quite happy with it and seem to just end up bitching like everyone else does... I don't want to bemoan all this good work and would like to see people realising the merits and helping where they can. - I would if I could but I'm a recent father and have different priorities for spare time at the moment.

Really these are worthy projects and I would like to make the switch if my basic practicalities could be sorted and who knows, I may even be able to contribute a little.

However, I'm trying to see if any of the issues that I mentioned in the previous posting have got any attention but I can't even find a bugtracker on the OZ or OE pages.

Anyone know what's happening ?

BTW: NICE new pages on the OZ site.... VERY polished look !
This will be a killer site when the content is ported over.

Regards,

- Andy

[Mickeyl]

OZ bugtracker: http://bugs.openembedded.org
Opie bugtracker: http://opie-bugs.oszine.de

[Shdwdrgn]

And if I had an account on either of those sites, I could see the progress...  

Hey Mickeyl - is there a page where a plain old user such as myself can go to pull the latest development copy of the OZ images (maybe from CVS)?  I'd certainly like to see where GPE has gotten since the 3.5.1 release.  I wouldn't be able to contribute any code, but am certainly a willing tester.

[Mickeyl]

OZ bugtracker: guest/guest
Opie bugtracker: just create one for yourself

There are no public images made between releases. You would have to build one yourself. It's pretty easy with OE though, just needs lots of RAM and HD space.

[zenyatta]

Shdwdrgn: read the excellent OE image building guide - it's really not that hard and takes only a few hours if you have a decent broadband connection, at least 512 MB of RAM and at about 3 GB of hard drive space.

[adf]

I'm not sure i'm on the right thread, but it is kinda close.... and I've been staggering through the wiki for a while.....

I have this urge to compile an oz 3.5.1 kernel for my 5600. i dl'd the toolchain... where is the kernel source?  Is this a simple use the tools get the source do a make menuconfig thing? Is the source someplace really obvious and this is absurd?

Thanks,
adf

[Mickeyl]

After you have correctly set up the OE tools, making the kernel is 'oemake virtual/kernel', nothing more, nothing less. OE will then download additional sources, patch them as needed, etc.

[iamasmith]

OZ bugtracker: http://bugs.openembedded.org
Opie bugtracker: http://opie-bugs.oszine.de

Thanks for not saying rtfm Mickey.. I should have spotted the bugs.openembedded.org link in the OZ release notes page.

I am surprised, however, and maybe this is just that I haven't looked hard enough that the Known Issues listed in the release notes (like the apps constantly resizing - particularly effects Calendar and Addr Book) don't seem to be being tracked as bugs.

What WOULD be great would be to have a URL beside the issues in the release notes that took you straight to the bugtracker artical !

- Andy

[Mickeyl]

Right. Will try to remember that for monday