I'm deleting OZ 3.5.1

[johnw]

Hey, I found a version of the Sharp SL-5000D ROM. And guess what? I've actually been able to install and use a couple things. Oh, sure, Hancom isn't working for me yet...

The later Sharp ROMs for the 5000d weren't bad.  The main reason I quit using them was the WiFi WEP didn't work (WiFi had to be added via installing the spectrum24 driver).

[amrein]

Did you all join zaurususergroup.com in october 2004 (20 or 19 or...) or is it a bug coming from the forum?

If this is not a bug than you react like this because you are newcomers.

OE needs help. Same thing for pdaXrom.

OE is like a Roman galley: it needs more hands to acheive  its goal  faster. The goal: be able to release a stable OS builder for building stable embedded Linux OS.

[jfv]

Amreim, in my browser it shows that I joined before you. I suppose it could be a bug.

Amrein and Mickeyl, are you saying that if I won't help I should shut up? That's a bit harsh.

In fact I would be interested in helping but I have no idea even where to start. If you could point me to some howto on helping with OE I would have a look but I have the feeling it would be beyond my capabilities. I am a linux user and know how to program a bit with scripting languages but no C and I am definitely not a kernel hacker.

Felipe

[zenyatta]

jfv: I am not Amrein nor Mickey :-) but one area requiring very few skills is testing. That is, you can identify and report bugs. If you do it in a systematic and comprehensive way (i.e. clear steps for reproducing, good descriptions of your environment etc.) your effort will be very much appreciated. It does require loads of patience and it would definitely help if you could build updated OE images (very good instructions are available).

Fortunately, the 3.5 branch of OZ is getting to a point when testing doesn't have to mean a completely useless Zaurus, so it can be done by more people willing to cope with the annoyances. It's up to you.

z.

[jfv]

I can test on my 5000D. It would help to have a template or example of how to report the test and also where do you want me to send these reports. Also if there is a list of things that you'd specially see tested it would help too.

Felipe

[panyo]

It is a little dismaying to me, a low level user, to see people jumping ship.
I just finished solving a little keyboard problem that GPE had-- missing [] { } and
undoccumented <Ctrl> ( on the calender key). While it took time, I am glad I did it
rather than 'waiting.' Don't give up. This machine realy could be a great tool.

Also, Sharp customer service is not seeing this, and is not the force behind OZ.
It is just bright people who have a desire to make things work that are generating
all these benefits. I hope we can all magnify the results of their effort by putting
OZ  to use, and maybe contributing a little, or eventualy a lot.

[zenyatta]

jfv: here are some links:

http://www.openembedded.org/oe_wiki/index.php/OzReleaseNotes
http://guest:guest@bugs.openembedded.org/

The latter is a complete bug-tracking system, you should use the "OE Based Distros" queue for OZ 3.5.1 bugs.

z.

[amrein]

Hoping this post is not out of the main subject.

Hi jfv.

In previous post I could have said that we are all part of the galley ship team: You, me, Mickey, ZaurusUserGroup users, all other open source users. The big thing difficult to understand is: who is doing what.

When I first come to iPaq/Yopy/Zaurus embedded Linux, I was very excited and in the same time I couldn't resist in commenting... commenting... and commenting again because what I had wasn't what I wanted. The big issue: the “only commenting” attitude can't bring anything to concrete because as long as nobody do the thing nothing will appear.

Let's imagine a group of people saying thing:

“Oh yeah, it would be great to run a completely open source users driven Linux OS on our PDAs. Well, we have a lot of ideas! We need to port the kernel! we need to be able to configure the build of all included applications! We want to share all those tools with the community!”.

This group is called OpenEmbedded. A group containing people like you, me, Mickey, ZaurusUserGroup everyday users, others... People like you and me! Think about it! It's like if you were saying tomorrow “Why not create a distro for Zaurus?” and then have me or Mickey coming on your website for helping.

Now imagine what happen when you give only generous comments. What is the result?

_ If nobody care, nothing will happen.
_ If your comments are good but assassin, they can demotivate a part of the guys working on the project
_ If your comments are good but require big changes in the wall thing, those changes have a great chance to be postponed (and your comments can be like ignored).
_ Most open source projects are suffering from bad programmers contributions or too messed up structure... and those bad programmers won't understand your comments because they are doing their best to fit their own needs.
_ If you comments are good, you will also have to fight against companies wanting to just mess up those projects. Why? For their own good! It's so simple to write a sentense like "what you do is crap" and the consequence can be disastrous in contributor minds. If your comments are good, they will be throw away by their bad-tempered and well trained doorkeepers. Why? We are talking about millions here. Even milliard if you think about the smart-phone market. Still think that this kind of software war doesn't exist? Naïve! Go help US army poor G.I.  to find massive destruction weapons overseas!

Don't mistake, comments are welcome. It's just that they are like speaking while other are rowing...
I don't know what you thing but me I hate authority e.g. when someone tell me “do this”, “do that”, “add this”, “add that”, ... To much coaches who tell you what to do and not enough people rowing in the good direction.

I'm still part of those annoying coaches too thought but I'm working on my hot-blooded...

So get evolve! As long as your comments are constructive they will be welcome (if they don't hurt to much )

-- extra --
Only 3 big problems for me so far on embedded Linux OS:
_ no big public discussions between pdaXrom.org, openembedded.org, emdebian.org, and others
_ still those annoying trolls (bad-tempered doorkeepers) saying things that “Linux can't bit PalmOS or PPC200x” or “You won't have good PIM on Zaurus”, “Let's get back to MS home”...
_ embedded open source projects have no good data flows (documentation, inter-members discussions, public discussions, website content, bug trackers, money, ...). This is a mess. I can't imagine a company building this kind of tools for people happiness. If this can be done, it's only by people like you and me, there is no other way to win your freedom.
_ writing this long post, I'm also trying to convince myself and motivate me for contributing to those projects...

[lardman]

Nice article :-)

_ embedded open source projects have no good data flows (documentation, inter-members discussions, public discussions, website content, bug trackers, money, ...). This is a mess. I can't imagine a company building this kind of tools for people happiness. If this can be done, it's only by people like you and me, there is no other way to win your freedom.

This may be partly true, but there's the wiki, the mailing list(s), IRC and this site, so hopefully between all of that it's possible to have some kind of meaningful discussion. There's also a bug tracking system.

Take a look here, contact stuff:
http://openembedded.org/oe_wiki/index.php
http://openembedded.org/oe_wiki/index.php/MailingLists
http://openembedded.org/oe_wiki/index.php/IRC

Bug tracker:
https://www.oesf.org/forums/inde...l=bug,and,track


Si

[arniel]

Amrein,
Your comments are food for thought, but it does appear that you contradict yourself...
On the one hand you say you hate authority, on the other you complain about the mess that these developments are in (so are you removing yourself from Zaurus development?).

Design by committee rarely works, it usually takes a strong character to get things moving and focussed, and people who are willing to do what is necessary, not just the bits they enjoy.  After all, where would the wider Linux community be with out Linus Torvalds?

I think it's fantastic how people have pulled together to write this amazing software, but I can also see that without some guidance from a "chief software architect" (no, I am *NOT* referring to BillG  ),  poor quality coding (as you mentioned) is inevitably going to get into the system and testing is never  going be thorough as we all hate testing

A.

[zenyatta]

jfv: I did a little testing of the sound recording app and posted my results. It may give you some ideas for reporting erratic behaviour (although my writeup certainly isn't as clear as it could be, for lack of time).

I even managed to find a workaround for one of the bugs (not very common :-) ). All I needed were these resources:

- runtime output from opie-recorder (just run 'opierec' from the command-line)
- source code (if you are any type of programmer - following execution paths requires no C++ or Qt expertise)
- Lorn Potter's Audio Howto (to better understand the source code)

My point is, you really can do a lot just by providing information on what doesn't work...

z.

[amrein]

No contradiction (I can't see where): I don't like when someone try to force me to do something but I'm still commenting and asking people to do things.

This is why I said I'm still coaching but must get more evolved.

[papercrane]

I've tried OZ 3.5.1.  There are a lot of things to like about it as long as you aren't planning on installing anything on it.  I can't get anything to install on it.  The package manager won't see any of my uninstalled applications.

Maybe it works for those of you with Zaurus Doctorates, but for the average user, version 3.5.1 is a bust.  It simply shouldn't be that difficult to install new applications.

I'll wait for a future version of OZ that works better for me.  Thanks to the OZ team for their efforts.

-John

I'm going one step further so to speak.  I'm going to get a Palm either T3 or the new T5.  I've realized that the Zaurus as a PDA/PIM just doesn't cut it for the reasons you mentioned:

-cant synch easily
-cant install apps easily
-no easy way to back up all installed apps and data and then restore it
-many desired apps not available

If you do go with the stock Sharp ROM, then the first two problems are solved but then it is like any other PDA only with less apps available for it- really no compelling reason to use it over a Palm or PocketPC.  And I did use the Sharp ROM first but realized there was lot of untapped potential which is why I've tried the OZ ROM.  Now as you say, to do practically anything you have to have a doctorate in Linux on the Zaurus.

I will keep it around as my play toy so I can see where things go but I just can't depend on it for day to day use.  It has a lot of potential as a micro laptop or micro tablet but it remains unrealized.

Ron
 

I really hope you all don't take this testing release as the final word. People *are* working on things. As to yur problems:

Syncing works fine, you just have to do a few things. The bugs *will* be worked out. Try searching the forums, there are instructions on how to get syncing to work.

Installing works, but none of the graphical package managers is fully working right now. Use the command line ipkg for now or create your own feed or switch to opie-aqpkg. Again, the bugs *will* be fixed.

Backing up...ok, you've got me there, AFAIK there's no easy way to do this right now.

What apps aren't available? Have you searched? Have you asked?

As for the Hancom apps, people say they're working, but I haven't been able to get them to work yet personally. I'm sure someone will come up with a fix, though.

[otzenpunk]

Hello, I tested 3.5.1 the last few days as well, and I really appreciated the new features. (Tested gpe and opie version.) But for me it is simply not usable yet. In the last couple of days I found at least three showstoppers that prevent me from using it regularly.

Yes, I will file bugs about it, when I've tested them on a clean installation. (Installed / on an SD-Card, perhaps this causes some of the problems.)

No, I don't have the skills to fix it myself. Sorry, folks.

Yes, I will test the next release as well, and I would like to thank you developers for your great work.

Until then I would like to downgrade to a stable version of OZ, but it seems as if the 3.2- and 3.3.6-feeds went away from openzaurus.org. Can you pleeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaase reinstall them or at least point me to an alternative location, where I can find the old ipkgs?

[lardman]

In the last couple of days I found at least three showstoppers that prevent me from using it regularly.

No, I don't have the skills to fix it myself. Sorry, folks.

Well you have our attention. Start a new thread and explain what the problems were/are and we might be able to help you.


Simon