O2 XDA IIs vs Zaurus SL-C3000

[informer]

Information about the O2 XDA IIs :

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/09/o2_xda_update/

"Sporting a 2.5in 65,000-colour 240 x 320 display, the XDA IIs also features a VGA digicam. Powered by a 400MHz Intel XScale PXA264 processor, the device contains 128MB of RAM and 96MB of ROM - on which is stored Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition. An MMC/SD IO card slot is provided for expansion.

Measuring 12.5 x 7.2 x 1.9cm, the XDA IIs weighs 205g. Its battery is a 1490mAh job - 25 per cent higher then the XDA II's power source - that provides four hours' talk time and 168 hours' on standby. The device will run as a PDA for 17 hours on a single charge. The PDA contains a quad-band GSM/GPRS radio."

I've been posting about the SL-C3000 on this forum recently, and I'm a bit undecided about buying it.  Mainly because I'm not sure about the OS and the potentials that it has compared to PPC.  

Here are a list of pros and cons (for my requirements) I can think of for each :

SL-C3000

PROS
* 4GB built-in storage (handy for files such as MP3s, movies, office documents, I would use it as an organiser/jukebox/notebook all-in-one device).

* "Protective" cover for the screen, the SLC3000 is the same as the C860, so the screen can be flipped and enclosed.

* Seems to play MP3s and movie files (though movie files will need to be re-encoded to fit the screen and the processor).

* I believe it will allow you to view photos like the way the new iPod photo would.

* It comes with a built-in English-Japanese-English media dictionary, which is a real bonus for me as I want to learn and speed up my Japanese (I'm based in Japan BTW).

* Comes with a sizeable keyboard which is very handy for me as I'm hopeless with the pen.

* Big resolution screen of 640x480, but are there enough applications out there to take advantage of it?  Browsing the internet should be a nice experience though.


CONS
* No built-in WIFI.  Japan is plagued with WIFI networks (well our offices are) and most users are using CF WIFI cards.  Buying a CF card is no problem just a hassle when a lot of PPCs out there already has WIFI built in.

* OS doesn't look as extensive as PPC (may be on par with Palm), been reading this forum about people's problem getting programs to work and so on, seems like a HIT and MISS kind of thing.

* Size and weight, seems a bit heavy but that is understandable for a "mini" computer.

* Movies may not play, due to their VIEWING SIZE and huge PROCESSING requirements.  I have a lot of anime videos which would be great to watch, but if I have to convert all of them to play on the Zaurus then I probably won't do it (I have like 400 episodes of this and that).

* No camera, not a big deal as my mobile phone has one.  XDA has one, but its a 1.3 megapixel camera.

* Launching software is apparently slow for a PDA.  This may affect the way I use it if I am looking for a word to translate into Japanese/English.

* Speakers on the older Zaurus were apparently weak, alarms were barely audible.  I want to be able to playback sound, only way to find out about the SLC3000 is to test it for myself when it comes out on Nov 10th.


O2 XDA IIs.

PROS
* Works as a PPC and mobile phone, won't work in Japan but will work in any GSM enabled country.  Very useful for me as I travel to a few countries every year.

* Plays everything multimedia such as MP3s, WMA, AVI, MPG, DIVX etc, I believe problem is with storage rather than playability (with Zaurus you have to resize the videos and maybe convert them to play).  Music and viewing photos would be more important for me, but if I can play any video on the PDA without converting them then that would be great too.

* I believe it will allow you to view photos like the way the new iPod photo would.

* Extensive software available including some nice looking games out there, not that important to me except for a language dictionary and learning software for Japanese which is the reason why I am so interested in the Zaurus.  I'm not sure if PPC has such software (still trying to find out).

* As an organiser and time manager, I think the PPC is better and probably syncs better with the PC.

* Due to its smaller and lighter size, it is a lot more portable than the Zaurus.

* Speakers should be better than the Zaurus.

CONS
* Keyboard is really small and seems unuseable, though if I could get something like this - (http://www.pocketpc.com.hk/V_news/V_news_pic_07.jpg), it would be really cool.

* No protection for the screen, I broke my really expensive Clie and I am not interested in buying another expensive PDA only to break it so easily.  The XDA is a phone and it comes with a case, so I would assume it would be more durable than it looks.

* Screen is only 3.5 inches, 240x320.  Small compared to the Zaurus.

* Onboard storage is smaller than the Zaurus, not a big deal as I can buy a large capacity CF card.

* Not sure about available software for learning Japanese, still looking for clues.


I'm really interested in the SL-C3000, using the Linux system is not totally new to me as I had to learn how to use Palm on my Clie.  

Question is, is the Zaurus portable enough to beat out the XDA?  Is this Zaurus innovative enough to pick over the XDA?  My apologees for the number of postings that I've made over the past few days.  Getting a new PDA is pretty exciting, especially when I've been living without an organiser for a year now.  I'm keen to get something soon to organise myself!!!!

[pcgamingsolutions]

SL-C3000

PROS
* 4GB built-in storage (handy for files such as MP3s, movies, office documents, I would use it as an organiser/jukebox/notebook all-in-one device).

The sign of a good PDA is that it can keep you organized and you can still have some fun with it, just like if you had a real human as an assistant.

* Seems to play MP3s and movie files (though movie files will need to be re-encoded to fit the screen and the processor).

That was one issue I had with other PDAs.  I'd have to run movies through software to convert them to play on a handheld.  I want to play mpg files, not a conversion of an mpg file.  When I had my SL-6000 I just put a music video on a CF card as a test and it worked fine.  I'd probably recommend converting longer movies, and if you go with the PPC you'll have to convert anyway.

* I believe it will allow you to view photos like the way the new iPod photo would.

I haven't seen the iPod photo yet, but on my computer I have my pictures organized in different folders (work, personal, etc) and just copied the directory structure to a CF or SD card and the Z can view all pictures in a directory.  No more requiring specific software programs to view collections!

* Big resolution screen of 640x480, but are there enough applications out there to take advantage of it? Browsing the internet should be a nice experience though.

Yes.

CONS
* No built-in WIFI. Japan is plagued with WIFI networks (well our offices are) and most users are using CF WIFI cards. Buying a CF card is no problem just a hassle when a lot of PPCs out there already has WIFI built in.

Not having been to Japan, from what I've read it is plagued with multiple wireless possibilities and didn't want to have the user stuck with one method on the Z so they let the user get a CF card for the wireless options that they need.  You're gonna hear it either way "They don't have WiFi" or "They have WiFi, but I don't use that, I use x"

* OS doesn't look as extensive as PPC (may be on par with Palm), been reading this forum about people's problem getting programs to work and so on, seems like a HIT and MISS kind of thing.

I laughed so hard when I read that one (nothing bad against the poster).  Getting programs to work on the Z that are hit and miss would be, oh, a WEB SERVER or wireless network sniffer.  You don't even get those options on PPC.  The OS is extensive, the issue is that it's the same OS people run on their desktop and all they want to do is port it to the Z.  I run Firefox on my desktop, and by golly when I'm on the road I want to surf the net using Firefox on my Z.  I can do that.  The only software that works on Windows that's ported to PPC would be Microsoft programs, and if anyone else has done it, more than likely they're not doing it for free.  That's why I love the Z so much compared to Palm or PPC: it's more flexible as to what it can do and the majority of the software is FREE.

* Movies may not play, due to their VIEWING SIZE and huge PROCESSING requirements. I have a lot of anime videos which would be great to watch, but if I have to convert all of them to play on the Zaurus then I probably won't do it (I have like 400 episodes of this and that).

A buddy of mine with a PPC had some 8-10 minute movie clips that he had to reencode to put on his PPC.  Same for full length movies.  You're probably looking to cut it down to about 15-20 frames per second (which was slightly noticeable when watching movies on his PPC).

* Speakers on the older Zaurus were apparently weak, alarms were barely audible. I want to be able to playback sound, only way to find out about the SLC3000 is to test it for myself when it comes out on Nov 10th.

It was nice when I was cleaning the warehouse with my 6000 in the back pocket, playing MP3s.  Could hear it just fine and the quality was good.

O2 XDA IIs.

PROS
* Plays everything multimedia such as MP3s, WMA, AVI, MPG, DIVX etc, I believe problem is with storage rather than playability (with Zaurus you have to resize the videos and maybe convert them to play). Music and viewing photos would be more important for me, but if I can play any video on the PDA without converting them then that would be great too.

Like I said earlier, you'll have to convert your movies, but mp3 and wma should be just fine.

* Extensive software available including some nice looking games out there, not that important to me except for a language dictionary and learning software for Japanese which is the reason why I am so interested in the Zaurus. I'm not sure if PPC has such software (still trying to find out).

Not sure about the Japanese software on PPC, but all of that extensive software is either shareware or about 20 bucks a pop.  My main reason for getting away from Palm in the first place.  Sure, it did great with the apps it came with, but if you wanted anything else, you're paying for it, and why would I want to pay for PDA software when I run a free desktop?

* As an organiser and time manager, I think the PPC is better and probably syncs better with the PC.

The first half of your statement has no merit, but PPC is easier to sync with Windows (just plug it in and an application that runs all the time syncs the info).  You need the full version of Outlook to really appreciate the sync for PIM features though.

* Due to its smaller and lighter size, it is a lot more portable than the Zaurus.

Don't forget to add all of those memory cards you'll be carrying around for your PPC.

* Speakers should be better than the Zaurus.

Pure speculation and has no merit.


I'm not going to address the cons of this PPC because you pretty much nailed them.

I'm really interested in the SL-C3000, using the Linux system is not totally new to me as I had to learn how to use Palm on my Clie.

What makes Palm and PPC so easy to learn is that they don't let you do a lot of things other than tapping an icon to start an application.  There are very strict boundaries.  This is not the case with a Zaurus.  You can get a terminal and then you have access to the entire disk.  If all you want to do is keep track of your appointments and play a few MP3s, I'd go with the PPC as there will be little to no learning curve.  If you want to truly harness the power of a PDA, I'd try out the Zaurus.

[iamasmith]

One thing that may grate a little bit is the OS, being true Linux isn't strictly designed with PDA environments as a target and a lot of things must be remembered.. like 'eject storage cards' so they dismount properly.

I would generally say that there are some great bits for the average user, the screen is great and it will probably do everything that you want. But the polish isn't quite there for the average user.

So I think you should ask yourself 'Will you enjoy it on as many levels as we do ?'

- Andy

[omega]

Go for the zaurus, either the new one or a c860. I have used the xdaII, not particularly impressed (it's a friends). Software is limited, esp. browser. He got a sd wifi recently for it... kinda nice. Again, programs...

Ha, ha, ha! Check out www.pdaxrom.org for screenshots of the programs that are being run. We're talking about full desktop browsers, word processing, programming etc. It's a real operating system, not a user level one where you just install what you're given and run...

Read a little more, and hopefully it will all become clear. As it was said before, the hit or miss stuff is crazy stuff like running a webserver over wifi (which works...). Of course, let's mention the keyboard at this point, and oh the vga screen.  ;-)

[bluedevils]

The stock PIM suite is on the weak side, but installing the kde PIM platform independant will make the Z a viable organizer and also has louder alarms (you can also choose the alarm sounds).  Syncing with outlook is probably the weak point as it is not as seemless as the PPC.  

Stubear and others based in Japan have commented that the version of the Japanese dictionary on the earlier Zs is very good.

[Fraggy]

Linux on the Zaurus is as Linux on a Desktop. The Z is the best replacement you can get for a laptop, and the newer Zaurus models even better!!!

However, just like "Linux for the Desktop", Micro$oft spoiled and weakened users will not easily harness it's power  or appreciate it's superiority.

Although this must be said: even if you have no experience what'soever with Linux, then STILL the Zaurus will be an EXCELLENT PDA for you, because of it's (transparent) userfriendliness, so you don't need to worry at all!!! Initially you will miss the "polish" that iamasmith mentions, though.

And in that aspect, it may be one of the best ways to step away from commercial OSses and slowly learn about Linux. I've heard stories of WinCE people totally converted to Linux after having used a Zaurus.

It is true that "you may find the number of applications on the market rather poor", but that's a typical way a spoiled Palm / WinCE user's point of view. Yep, the number of commercial applications for the Z is not very extensive. You'll find a lot more free open source applications instead!

I myself, I'd find it rather rich, and in terms of functionalities extremely rich and variable.

Incredibly rich as a matter of fact (like running a Webserver with PHP enabled!!!) and all the applications you can use on a Linux Desktop can be easily ported to the Zaurus. In other words, theoretically, the number of applications available for the Z is simply UNLIMITED

On top of that, a lot of people forget about the power of Java, which enables programs to be written once and then to run on any platform of your choice wether it be Win32, Linux, Unix, BeOS, Qnix, Palm, Amiga or whatever... The Zaurus comes with Java enabled  (although I'd like to see some more Java applications, hehe).  Zaurus stands for FREEDOM, if you want it to.

And again, even if you are scared by so much power and freedom: you don't have to use it, hehe, the Zaurus will work just fine as a simple PDA for all your daily needs

Hope this helps,

JM.

[tumnus]

* Movies may not play, due to their VIEWING SIZE and huge PROCESSING requirements.  I have a lot of anime videos which would be great to watch, but if I have to convert all of them to play on the Zaurus then I probably won't do it (I have like 400 episodes of this and that).

This is a problem for any PDA. I am not aware of any PDA powerful enough to resize say high bitrate 800x600 DivX movies on the fly to match the PDA's resolution.

* Launching software is apparently slow for a PDA.

Pocket PC also has this problem, but they get around it by keeping apps in memory when you think you are closing them. There is no control over this unless you install 3rd party extensions. I like the Qtopia way of doing this where some apps can be selectively preloaded. So for example apps such as the Calendar and Addressbook you may use a lot so you can keep them loaded in the background. Then they look as if they load instantly.

Palm gets around this because nothing in the ROM or internal storage is compressed so it can do memory mapping, which means the app is run from storage rather than being loaded into RAM first.

* Speakers on the older Zaurus were apparently weak, alarms were barely audible.  I want to be able to playback sound, only way to find out about the SLC3000 is to test it for myself when it comes out on Nov 10th.

The SL5000D and SL5500 did not have a speaker. They had a buzzer, which was why it was weak. The 5600 and all the other Zaurii AFAIK have real speakers and I am very impressed by the quality and loudness of the speaker on my 5600. It lacks a little in bass, but then most small speakers do.

* Extensive software available including some nice looking games out there, not that important to me except for a language dictionary and learning software for Japanese which is the reason why I am so interested in the Zaurus.  I'm not sure if PPC has such software (still trying to find out).

Extensive selection, but most of which is not free. This is the opposite to the Zaurus.

[trejkaz]

I run Firefox on my desktop, and by golly when I'm on the road I want to surf the net using Firefox on my Z.  I can do that.

Thanks for saying that.  You've just put the final nail in my Palm unit's coffin.  I'm going to sell the thing and buy a Zaurus for sure now.

Not an SL-C3000 in my case though.  What I'm going to do is use the recent price drop on the earlier models to get me a cheap and sexy SL-C860.  I have a 1GB SD card, only 1/4 the size of the hard drive anyway.  In a year the 2GB cards should be cheap too... and I'm sure a year after that, I'll have enough money to sit back and take a look at the world of new options on the market. :-)

But... you bastard.  How dare you bring Firefox into this.  You just cost me money! ;-)