Author Topic: Use An Sl-c3k As A Sidekick?!  (Read 5546 times)

piku

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Use An Sl-c3k As A Sidekick?!
« on: August 30, 2005, 06:31:34 pm »
Hey guys,

More and more I see people with these sidekicks.  And I like it.  And I had an idea.  When my zaurus is playing mp3s (thus the display is off and the hdd accesses once or twice per song), I notice my battery life is HUGE... 10+ hours... Perfectly adequate for having my zaurus on and idling at all times.  Then a buddy of mine told me that when you make a GPRS connection via bluetooth it doesn't really prevent the cell phone from working at all, just that the data stream is interrupted during a call.  This is huge for me.  This means I can carry my cell phone in one pocket and make a GPRS connection.  Now I realized that the USB bluetooth dongle I have probably wouldn't work out so I'd have to carry something like the Belkin CF BT adapter which goes for $2.94 on ebay right now.  The more and more I think about this, the more I feel it would work as long as the power subsystem is modified a bit.  Basically closing the screen would have to instead of turning the unit off, turn the display off and switch to as low of a low power mode as possible.  Probably dumb the system MHz as low as possible.  The bluetooth draws next to nothing unlike wifi so the power numbers suggest it could work.  And if these sidekicks or treos on their limited battery life can do it, chatting with a CELL TOWER versus just bluetooth, why can't a zaurus?

Thus whenever you open your zaurus, gaim is open, messages are waiting, you can sync up email as you walk and your zaurus will scream whenever it gets something.  Is anyone working this way?  I totally want to do it   Always having internet for my zaurus would TOTALLY complete the experience for me, rather than having to constantly fight with wifi access points.  Additionally the bluetooth cf adapters are so cheap, I wouldn't feel obligated to carry it separate from teh zaurus to protect it, so it'd be simple

What do people think?

Cresho

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Use An Sl-c3k As A Sidekick?!
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2005, 09:03:36 pm »
I have a cellphone bluetoothed to my zaurus.  When i run gaim, i run it woth the portrait mode to prevent the zaurus from suspending.  I also have my emails downloading when i feel like it.  I take long drives in my car and my zaurus is open of course it is closed with pdair pda case for the zaurus from brando.

Gaim does recieve messages and opens up pop up windows but it does not warn me at all.  I leave both pda and cellphone blugged into my car cig lighter  when i am driving around.  but i make sure to plug in devices after car is on to prevent power surges causing damage.

yep....pretty much a side kick in this manner.  I also have webaccess anywere and do not need wifi.  I have unlimited net access for 24 a month in adition to my phone calls.  Digital access is free but voice is not between normal operating hours but it is alot of fun.

the bluetooth is made from taiwan..and needs to be

ambicom bt2000-cf bluetooth-made in taiwan

and i use bluez and configured everything with ease by editing some strings with zeditor.

my cellphone is a siemens s56 with the previous owners of at&t which is now cingular...blah!

let me know if need help...i use gaim exclusively but with msn...icq or aim might need to use another software.  and there is but havent tried em yet.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2005, 09:07:22 pm by Cresho »
Zaurus C-3200 (internal 8gb seagate drive) with buuf icon theme, cacko 1.23 full,  and also Meanie's pdaxqtrom-Debian/Open Office
Zaurus SL-5500 Sharp Rom 3.13 with steel theme
pretec pocket pc wi fi
ambicom bt2000-cf bluetooth-made in taiwan
simpletech 1gb cf
pny 1gb sd
patriot 2gb
ocz or patriot 4gb sd(failed after 2 weeks)only on z
creative csw-5300 speakers in stereo
DigiLife DDV-1000 for video, Audio, Picture recording playable on the zaurus
Mustek DV4500-video recorder, pictures, voice record on sd for z

zaurusthemes.biz | ZaurusVideo | Zaurus Software

icruise

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Use An Sl-c3k As A Sidekick?!
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2005, 07:39:38 am »
I don't think that Belkin card works with the Zaurus though. From what I can tell, it is actually a little tricky to find a card that is compatible.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 07:40:23 am by icruise »

zmiq2

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Use An Sl-c3k As A Sidekick?!
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2005, 09:05:34 am »
instead of the belkin I would choose a socket bt cf card, since it fits perfect inside the cf slot. I have it and it looks very nice.

For your idea to work (which I have also thought about it, but I don't have a data unlimited plan, sigh), i would suggest:

do a script to:
 start cf card
 connect to network & get info
 disconnect network
 power down cf card
 sleep x minutes

on the other hand, you are supposed to have your cell bluetooth open all the time, thus draining more battery from your phone as well as, depending on the phone model and bluetooth capabilities, it could be a data-security risk.

Just some thougths, waiting for you to post your findings !!
« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 09:05:58 am by zmiq2 »
sl-c750, archos av580, socket cf [bt, wifi, modem], noname cf lan, audiovox rtm800 gsm-gprs cf, rom: sharp -> oz3.5.3 -> cacko -> oz3.5.4.1

GadgetGuy

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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2005, 09:16:32 am »
Quote
instead of the belkin I would choose a socket bt cf card, [div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94096\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]


Hmm. I should have waited a bit... I have just paid for a Belkin BT card... it should arrive in 1-2 weeks.

So I will try to do a couple of things to try if it can somehow still work.

Would anyone have some advice about websites, or discussions about how to set up BT on linux ( or on the C3100)?

Thanks to all...
Zaurus C-3100 from PriceJapan with OZ 3.5.4.1. Opie and GPE
Ambicom CF WL1100C Wifi Card and Symbol Wireless Networker CF Wifi Card
1 GB Sandisk Ultra II SD
PdAir leather case - Nintendo DS metal case
various smaller CF and SD cards
all kinds of USB cables and accessories
-------------------------------------------------------------
Previous computers: TI 99/4A, ZX81, C64, Amiga 500, Apple Powerbook 100
Previous PDA's: Palm 1000, Palm III, Palm V, Palm Vx, Audiovox Maestro Pocket PC, Psion 5mx
Current PDA: Palm Tungsten E2
Current favourite: Zaurus C3100 - my "micro laptop"

piku

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Use An Sl-c3k As A Sidekick?!
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2005, 09:20:22 am »
Quote
instead of the belkin I would choose a socket bt cf card, since it fits perfect inside the cf slot. I have it and it looks very nice.

For your idea to work (which I have also thought about it, but I don't have a data unlimited plan, sigh), i would suggest:

do a script to:
 start cf card
 connect to network & get info
 disconnect network
 power down cf card
 sleep x minutes

on the other hand, you are supposed to have your cell bluetooth open all the time, thus draining more battery from your phone as well as, depending on the phone model and bluetooth capabilities, it could be a data-security risk.

Just some thougths, waiting for you to post your findings !!
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94096\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Well I'm realizing that Belkin card doesn't work now so I'm hunting for a socket or ambicom.  I would have an unlimited data plan.  For the system to be effective for me, I'd really need it to be on and idling, always ready to receive data.  I don't know how it could be any more of a data security risk than using hte bluetooth anyway.  My cell phone is setup to not pair with any devices unless you tell it it can.  The cell phone is a Sony Ericcson - whatever their cheapest model that has a camera in it is.  I'm getting it explicitly for GPRS so that I don't wear the battery in the zaurus.  That and I can get it for $12 versus $180 for CF GPRS.

Thanks,
Mark

icruise

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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2005, 09:21:33 am »
Quote
instead of the belkin I would choose a socket bt cf card, since it fits perfect inside the cf slot. I have it and it looks very nice.

[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94096\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
What exactly do you mean when you say it fits perfectly in the slot? How much does it stick out?

lardman

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Use An Sl-c3k As A Sidekick?!
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2005, 11:51:06 am »
This sounds like an interesting idea, something I've had in the back of my mind for a long while except that I was thinking of using WiFi as there's a network everywhere here at uni.

Quote
What exactly do you mean when you say it fits perfectly in the slot? How much does it stick out?

Not at all - i.e. it's the same size as a CF storage card.

Quote
For the system to be effective for me, I'd really need it to be on and idling, always ready to receive data.

Really? What will you be doing with it that you require such fast updates? I would be quite happy to carry out messaging more slowly (like sending emails, etc.), though it you're also wanting to utilise some form of location awareness then you're probably going to want to have the Z switch on more often as your location/context is changing more rapidly.

I'm not sure how to balance this need and that of saving the battery, but a challenge is always good

In any case I can't really see why the Z couldn't switch on every 1 or 2 minutes, connect to the phone and check for messages/email/whatever, then go back to sleep. I suppose that if the phone could also ascertain it's current location it could then decide how long to sleep for depending on what it expects it might find, etc.

I'd be interested to know what the battery life expectations are with the screen turned off, as well as how much of a power drain using BT (or WiFi) would be, and also how long it takes to obtain a connection - as you'll want to balance the number of sleep (and subsequent connection) cycles against the time (read power) wasted being switched on with BT powered up, but not doing anything useful, just negotiating with the phone, etc.


Si
C750 OZ3.5.4 (GPE, 2.6.x kernel)
SL5500 OZ3.5.4 (Opie)
Nokia 770
Serial GPS, WCF-12, Socket Ethernet & BT, Ratoc USB
WinXP, Mandriva

lardman

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Use An Sl-c3k As A Sidekick?!
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2005, 12:02:46 pm »
Which leads me further into power managment:

http://pads.east.isi.edu/presentations/mis...o-pm-report.pdf

Interesting to see that the frontlight takes the majority of the power (are backlighte better or worse?

More important (as the screen will be off - actually will the screen truely be off, or will it just be the backlight?), is the power taken up by the idling IR & sound & serial hardware, this will make a difference. Anyone know whether this stuff is powered down in current kernels?

Another thing I was just thinking, randomly as ever; I remember that underclocking the SA1110 machines could only go so far as otherwise the screen became corrupted (as the clocks are linked via a multiplier/divider iirc - the same may or may not be true for the PXA machines). Anyway, this wouldn't be an issue as the screen would be off anyway, I wonder how much of a difference extreme underclocking would make, and how low the processor could be made to go and still be able to perform the email checking, etc.


Si
C750 OZ3.5.4 (GPE, 2.6.x kernel)
SL5500 OZ3.5.4 (Opie)
Nokia 770
Serial GPS, WCF-12, Socket Ethernet & BT, Ratoc USB
WinXP, Mandriva

icruise

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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2005, 12:07:03 pm »
Quote
This sounds like an interesting idea, something I've had in the back of my mind for a long while except that I was thinking of using WiFi as there's a network everywhere here at uni.

Quote
What exactly do you mean when you say it fits perfectly in the slot? How much does it stick out?

Not at all - i.e. it's the same size as a CF storage card.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94123\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

That sounds great. Is there a "lip" or something to help facilitate removal from the device?

Does anyone know of any wi-fi cards that are like this?

lardman

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Use An Sl-c3k As A Sidekick?!
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2005, 12:14:10 pm »
Quote
That sounds great. Is there a "lip" or something to help facilitate removal from the device?

Exactly the same as a CF storage card, so yes, it has a lip.

This is the Socket BT range of cards (I've only seen two models, rev B & E iirc, but I'd assume the rest are the same),


Si
C750 OZ3.5.4 (GPE, 2.6.x kernel)
SL5500 OZ3.5.4 (Opie)
Nokia 770
Serial GPS, WCF-12, Socket Ethernet & BT, Ratoc USB
WinXP, Mandriva

bluedevils

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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2005, 12:38:39 pm »
It has been demonstrated that a person can hack bluetooth without your knowledge and without your phone prompting for authorization.  I may try to look for an article on it later.

Quote
...  I don't know how it could be any more of a data security risk than using hte bluetooth anyway.  My cell phone is setup to not pair with any devices unless you tell it it can....
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=94100\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I'm now an iphone user and use my zaurii as serial terminals, perl and shell scripting and when I need 640x480 screens

sl-c3100/pda cacko 1.23 | sl-6000l/needs battery | sl-c760/server pdaxrom rc12 | Former sl-5500/tkcrom owner (sister's birthday gift)

bluedevils

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« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2005, 02:01:22 pm »
I'm sorry,

In my quick search I was unable to find the article I was thinking about.  Here's one about hijacking audio input/output, but they use the fact that most devices have weak pass keys (0000)


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/08/02/car_whisperer/
I'm now an iphone user and use my zaurii as serial terminals, perl and shell scripting and when I need 640x480 screens

sl-c3100/pda cacko 1.23 | sl-6000l/needs battery | sl-c760/server pdaxrom rc12 | Former sl-5500/tkcrom owner (sister's birthday gift)

icruise

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Use An Sl-c3k As A Sidekick?!
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2005, 03:25:32 pm »
I think you're right that it is theoretically possible to hack into a bluetooth device (I've read similar articles). But given the short range of bluetooth and the fact that a potential hacker would have to know that you're using bluetooth and have his equipment all set to do the hacking, I'm not convinced that it's a major problem.

zmiq2

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« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2005, 05:44:30 pm »
1) the socket bt cf does fit complete inside the cf slot. I have rev.2.5G, and now works out-of-the-box with new roms. I had a Belkin, but after 2 weeks of compiling, logging, couldn't make it work. That was almost 2 years ago, so YMMV

2) I don't know of any cf wifi card that doesn't stick out of the cf slot. I have a socket low power wifi, with just 1.5-2 cm out of the cf slot, but is very convenient

3) last week, with my poor hacking skills and my zaurus I could download the phonebook of a collegue who had a nokiaXXXX (where XXXX is a known bt-hackable model). Not to mention it was a proof-of-concept and I deleted the file as soon as downloaded. No pairing needed. I own a SE and bt seems to be ok, but you know, I don't feel like having it on all the time. There are known published methods for hacking which would work I think with any phone

4) I'm trying to dismantle an old phone and create a serial-attached module, with its own battery. You can call it poor-man-diy
« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 05:53:30 pm by zmiq2 »
sl-c750, archos av580, socket cf [bt, wifi, modem], noname cf lan, audiovox rtm800 gsm-gprs cf, rom: sharp -> oz3.5.3 -> cacko -> oz3.5.4.1