Pdaxrom Vs Oz & Gpe

[GadgetGuy]

Yeah, I switched to icewm also!   I really feel like I am home with this WM.   
I recommend anyone who has matchbox to switch!
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Can you please tell which .ipk you have used to do this?
Is this it: icewm-pdaxrom_0.0.5-2_armv5tel.ipk? Is that all you need to install?

Also: how do you launch icewm, after it is installed? With startx? Do you maybe need to remove matchbox first?

[dlj0]

Abiword is more responsive on GPE?  For one, I didn't know it existed on GPE.  I used OZ/GPE last year and found that noticably lacking.

But why the urge to use OO?  I find that Abiword, on my Z or my desktop, to be so much more responsive that I never use OO.  And as far as spreadsheets go, gnumeric is the standard now, IMNSHO.
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I use open office on a PC and a Mac and in our office, using open office file formats. To have openoffice on the Z would be fantastic, because then I don't need to convert my files into other formats for abiword to read. Last time I looked, admittedly a long time ago, abiword doesn't support open office formats, neither does gnumeric (please correct me if I'm wrong).

Also, when looking at a file in abiword vs openoffice, the text is actually larger and more readable in openoffice, don't ask me why, just seems that way.
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My experience is that OO is decades slower than abiword in loading and manipulating files that are in MS format -- like all the ones you get in e-mail.  Also, formatting of such documents is considerably worse in OO -- for me -- than abiword or gnumeric.  Gnumeric OTOH has features missing in OO and Excel that I like, such as being able to pass more arguments to commands.   There are simple things I needed to do that xls format would not handle, but gnumeric did.

I would imagine that the native OO formats are better than the MS formats, but who would bother with a word processor like that if it weren't for people shoving MS documents in your face all the time?

[Hrw]

But why the urge to use OO?  I find that Abiword, on my Z or my desktop, to be so much more responsive that I never use OO.  And as far as spreadsheets go, gnumeric is the standard now, IMNSHO.[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=128835\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Sorry guys but I have to say that - I think that possibility to run OpenOffice.org on Z is like 'my penis is bigger then yours' talks. This beast is big & slow on desktops so why install it on Zaurus? Just because it can be possible? Man... I know that we can add 8GB microdrives, use NFS and then build native gentoo/LFS/other stuff or run dnetc or other crappy  SETI but do we have to?

[omro]

My experience is that OO is decades slower than abiword in loading and manipulating files that are in MS format -- like all the ones you get in e-mail.  Also, formatting of such documents is considerably worse in OO -- for me -- than abiword or gnumeric.  Gnumeric OTOH has features missing in OO and Excel that I like, such as being able to pass more arguments to commands.   There are simple things I needed to do that xls format would not handle, but gnumeric did.

I would imagine that the native OO formats are better than the MS formats, but who would bother with a word processor like that if it weren't for people shoving MS documents in your face all the time?
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When I open documents in gnumeric and abiword I spend ages faffing with the zoom and resizing cells so I can see the contents clearly. Never had that issue with open office.

Open Office 2 is WAY faster then OO1

[desertrat]

Sorry guys but I have to say that - I think that possibility to run OpenOffice.org on Z is like 'my penis is bigger then yours' talks. This beast is big & slow on desktops so why install it on Zaurus? Just because it can be possible? Man... I know that we can add 8GB microdrives, use NFS and then build native gentoo/LFS/other stuff or run dnetc or other crappy  SETI but do we have to?
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As far as wordprocessing and spreadsheets go, yes they can usually be better addressed by Abiword and Gnumeric. But for drawing diagrams there really is no adequate substitute for OOo Draw. I know there's Inkscape, but it has various issues - chief among them is WYSI(not)WYG, eg fills don't print.

And as for 'my penis is bigger than yours' in relation to the number of packages available for the various roms/distros, a more useful measure would be "are the application(s) that you want/need to use available"?

-- cheers

[omro]

a more useful measure would be "are the application(s) that you want/need to use available"?

-- cheers
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I totally agree. Meanie's OOo runs perfectly fast enough for me. If I could only have it without the little spreadsheet bug, I'd be happier.

I bet you, if you compile OOo for the Z, people will use it.

[clofland]

This was the pdaX vs. OZ w/ GPE thread, right?

I hear a lot of "this is faster than that" and "this is more standards compliant than that" talk from the OZ/pdaX battle, but what really matters to most of us is perceived usability. Microsoft relies on that you know, their software may be inefficient, slow and buggy, but most people perceive that that they can get what they want done with it. Obviously we all know better, but the same does apply here. Unless the speed gains are HUGE, and they rarely are, few will switch "ROMs" unless there is a perceived usability benefit.

So, from the standpoint of perceived usability, what does OZ w/ GPE have to offer? I tried the latest OZ/GPE this week, and was kind of unimpressed. Probably some more documentation (which pdaX also needs) and a greater desire to learn would have helped, but I was longing for pdaX.

What does GPE offer to the user that pdaX does not? Is there something fundamental that I am missing?

(On a side note, where can I find doc's for GPE, as in, the keyboard layout (just where IS the ALT key) and window managment (how DO I resize windows)?)

[desertrat]

Can you please tell which .ipk you have used to do this?
Is this it: icewm-pdaxrom_0.0.5-2_armv5tel.ipk? Is that all you need to install?

No, that only contains the pdaxrom specific configuration files. You need to the install icewm_XXX.ipk as well.

Also: how do you launch icewm, after it is installed? With startx?

I believe icewm-pdaxrom overwrites startx, so yes, just startx.

Do you maybe need to remove matchbox first?

No. But after using icewm you wouldn't want to go back to matchbox.

For more info read these:
https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showt...=19412&hl=icewm
https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showt...=18891&hl=icewm

-- cheers

[ShiroiKuma]

As far as wordprocessing and spreadsheets go, yes they can usually be better addressed by Abiword and Gnumeric. But for drawing diagrams there really is no adequate substitute for OOo Draw. I know there's Inkscape, but it has various issues - chief among them is WYSI(not)WYG, eg fills don't print.

And as for 'my penis is bigger than yours' in relation to the number of packages available for the various roms/distros, a more useful measure would be "are the application(s) that you want/need to use available"?
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I unpacked the ARM OpenOffice installer under GPE. Ran the install script, it copied the app. When you try to run the setup however or soffice directly, it launches, but after a while I get:

Code: [Select]

I18N: X Window System doesn't support locale "C"
/usr/local/OpenOffice.org1.1.4/program/soffice.bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/local/OpenOffice.org1.1.4/program/libvcl645lr.so: undefined symbol: XkbQueryExtensionThe locale shouldn't be a prob. I've searched on the XkbQueryExtension thing, but can't find anything indicative...

[omro]

I unpacked the ARM OpenOffice installer under GPE. Ran the install script, it copied the app. When you try to run the setup however or soffice directly, it launches, but after a while I get:

Code: [Select]

I18N: X Window System doesn't support locale "C"
/usr/local/OpenOffice.org1.1.4/program/soffice.bin: symbol lookup error: /usr/local/OpenOffice.org1.1.4/program/libvcl645lr.so: undefined symbol: XkbQueryExtensionThe locale shouldn't be a prob. I've searched on the XkbQueryExtension thing, but can't find anything indicative...
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Might want to post that in the GPE or OZ/Common forums if you haven't already

[tg]

This was the pdaX vs. OZ w/ GPE thread, right?


What does GPE offer to the user that pdaX does not? Is there something fundamental that I am missing?


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I think fundamental difference has less to do with speed or particular packages being on one vs other ROM and more with development focus. OZ may be attractive if you believe that due to the fact it is targeted for many devices when you in the future migrate to some other linux device you may get OZ/GPE you are already familiar with. It seems like pdaX is primarily focused on getting as much as possible specifically out of Zaurus and the portability is not the primary focus (but because there is so much more focus on Z you get developer to pay more attention to make apps finetuned for Z?).
To be fair I need to point out that I have not used OZ or pdaX up until now since I'm still waiting for someone from either distribution to announce that some browser works on those ROMS as smoothly as Opera does on Cacko - it seems like many have asked this question (many times) but I have not seen a satisfactory answer that would make me switch - and browser is something I use far more often than any other app.

[adf]

This was the pdaX vs. OZ w/ GPE thread, right?


What does GPE offer to the user that pdaX does not? Is there something fundamental that I am missing?


[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=129303\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I think fundamental difference has less to do with speed or particular packages being on one vs other ROM and more with development focus. OZ may be attractive if you believe that due to the fact it is targeted for many devices when you in the future migrate to some other linux device you may get OZ/GPE you are already familiar with. It seems like pdaX is primarily focused on getting as much as possible specifically out of Zaurus and the portability is not the primary focus (but because there is so much more focus on Z you get developer to pay more attention to make apps finetuned for Z?).
To be fair I need to point out that I have not used OZ or pdaX up until now since I'm still waiting for someone from either distribution to announce that some browser works on those ROMS as smoothly as Opera does on Cacko - it seems like many have asked this question (many times) but I have not seen a satisfactory answer that would make me switch - and browser is something I use far more often than any other app.
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yeah.  people from both systems have mentioned qvfb to run qtopia apps.  I haven't heard from anyone actually doing it.  I think it is worth pursuing on both gpe and pdax.The sources are on the trolltech site;pick your favorite dev environment and have at it.  If no one else does, I might give it a go this summer, though i'm far less wizardly than many of the other users of either system.

edit:  on the other hand, opera 7.x is getting pretty ##@!!! old. netfront on Z has been atg 3.1 for at least a year.   In the world of qt the only movement seems to be rumors of work on konqueror in opie.  in the X world firefox is getting better and better and gpe has a shiny new browser.  One loaded, firefox is, imho, hands down better than opera.

[ThirtyOne]

I use pdaXrom.

I still find Firefox to be heavy and slow, but it is great to have full compatibility with desktop browsers.  I have even done firefox extension development on my z.

I use Dillo whenever I can and only fall back on Firefox when I absolutely have to.

[adf]

I use pdaXrom.

I still find Firefox to be heavy and slow, but it is great to have full compatibility with desktop browsers.  I have even done firefox extension development on my z.

I use Dillo whenever I can and only fall back on Firefox when I absolutely have to.
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Have you had much luck handling proxy servers with dillo?

I've found that often one or another incarnation of links goes a long way toward filling in the gaps.

[ZDevil]

Let's turn the question around.

I have a C860 and C1000. I don't really mind to try out the latest results from both the pdaX and OZ sides. On the one hand it seems weird to the seemingly not so large Zaurus user/development communities; but on the other hand having real stuff ready to try out implies (relatively speaking) mature and active development status and enough diversities -- Cacko, OZ, pdaX. Granted that the Zaurii is the leading species in the kingdom of embedded Linux, having several strong breeds will actually do no harm but demonstrate that the ongoing evolution is gaining momentum.  

My next plan is once Beta4 issues are fixed and streamlined on my C1000, I will try OZ (Opie or GPE) on my C860, and then I'll begin to see the strengths and weaknesses on both sides in my eyes. I just don't feel comfortable at all to keep  switching back and forth, as I do need my Zaurus to do real work in real life; nor do I feel secure when ppl keep telling me "You need ABC? Okay, that's (theoretically) possible if you do/install/tweak XYZ" without any real user out there actually sharing real stories.