Author Topic: Build Your Own Linux Powered Pda  (Read 214893 times)

morrijr

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« Reply #135 on: June 24, 2006, 04:49:58 pm »
Would http://www.sigmatel.com/products/portable/audio/stmp3600.asp be of any interest for the audio?

"The STMP3600 integrates a wide range of I/O peripherals. It can efficiently interface to nearly any type of flash memory, ATA drive, serial bus, or smart LCD. Moreover, it is ready for advanced connectivity applications such as Bluetooth and WiFi via its integrated high speed application UART and SDIO controller. This includes a high-resolution audio codec with headphone and speaker amplifiers, 8-channel low resolution ADC, high-current battery charger, linear regulators for 5-volt operation, high-speed USB 2.0 OTG with embedded PHY, and various system monitoring and infrastructure systems. An ARM926EJ-S CPU with dual caches, embedded SRAM, and an integrated memory management unit serves as the central processor of the STMP3600 and provides the processing power needed to support advanced features such as audio cross-fading and post processing, MP3 and Windows Media Audio (WMA) encoding, and still and motion video decoding."

stampsm

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« Reply #136 on: June 24, 2006, 07:51:52 pm »
the processor we were looking at would litterally blow that one out of the water.
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abercoder

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« Reply #137 on: June 24, 2006, 09:34:02 pm »
I just came across this post and am really amazed, can't wait til I can buy one! I've long thought about building a custom PDA and many of the ideas discussed in this post (like USB host, external monitor support, GSM/GPRS etc).

There are a couple of things that have sprung into my mind reading this post:

1. uboot (http://sourceforge.net/projects/u-boot) might make a good bootloader. Its smaller than having an entire linux kernel and can read images from an mmc card or over serial using kermit. Its currently used by the gumstix. Although one thing they do which I don't like is to place it in flash meaning you can remove it and brick your device (unless you use JTAG).

2. If this device is a success a lightweight version might be nice. I still often use my Psion 5MX despite having a Zaurus 5500 because it runs for 30 hours on 2 AA batteries and is perfectly adequate for many tasks. Perhaps a device of the same size/shape, same keyboard, running the same software but only has a monochrome screen, 100mhz CPU, 64mb of RAM, SD/CF and bluetooth. For tasks like checking email, reading ebooks, using IMs, word processing, spreadsheets, PIM and basic web browsing and possibly even coding it would be ideal. Hopefully it would also be a lot cheaper, on the subject of cost does anyone know what this thing is likely to cost?

Da_Blitz

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« Reply #138 on: June 24, 2006, 11:30:49 pm »
it happens (reposting info) i try and point it out but i need to get a wiki running, should be up in a week

im not sure if linux is able to boot from the bare hardware, i assume it needs some sort of setup to get the ram going and such but i could be wrong (somtimes it takes me awhile te relise i am reading mailing lists from 3 yoers ago about things that have been solved, google gives too much info sometimes)

that cpu you mention is a fether weight for phones, i think the philosify of phones replacing pdas and such is a bad idea, it shold be pdas with phones replacing the phone. with bluetooth you dont have to worry about taking the pda out of your pocket, just leave it in your bag, i belive that a better interface to comunicate should not to change the form factor of a phone or pda but to allow them to evelve there design to meet the required functionality (size and power) and suplement thase with objects that are more convienent (ie bluetooth headphones, watch, headset). you dont see a home PC built into a keyboard you buy them sepretly because if they were together they cannot perform to thier fullest (laptops bieng a special case where form follows function instead of functions follows form[/rant]

uboot is good and i will lookinto that, its ideas and infomation like that that i need and helps the most  keep them ideas rolling in

cost is as much as a c3000 or current equivelent, thats what i plan on, what we end up with might be diffrent, if you want to save power then the best way would be to lower the cpu, i can see about making the mem banks independently powerable down but i dont belive there would be much point, i have stated that i dont want to fragment the design and will have 2 models initally with an expansion assembly that would turn it into a laptop (eg development blade and the PDA) the reason bieng is that it gets hard to support many platforms each with diffrent reveisons and then you get questions about incompatability and such

 i dont want headaches, you can have a 64MB version if you want and i will show you how to do it but i wont suppert you for problems that are specific to your design IF i am too busy, in the end i will probelly help out anyway i just wont garentee it

i think the best way to get this manufactured is as a freescale dev board as chip some manufacterers tend to go low profit on thier dev board and make more maney selling chips, if we use thier chipsets then its more likely they will use the design

by the way i need ideas fr benchmarking the thing, what do you want to see it do, long battery life (eg lenght of time playing moives/mp3's), if so how long, quake playback at acceptable speeds and over wireless is one but i am intrested in what you want it to do in terms of hardware
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Tom61

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« Reply #139 on: June 25, 2006, 02:48:09 am »
Quote
im not sure if linux is able to boot from the bare hardware, i assume it needs some sort of setup to get the ram going and such but i could be wrong (somtimes it takes me awhile te relise i am reading mailing lists from 3 yoers ago about things that have been solved, google gives too much info sometimes)

You need something to load Linux kernel (if it has all needed modules compiled) or an initial RAM disk into the RAM and jump to location it was loaded and start executing. Depending on how the iMX31 is setup, you might be able to put an uncompressed image in ROM, and it'll load automatically.

Quote
cost is as much as a c3000 or current equivelent, thats what i plan on, what we end up with might be diffrent,

Just to clarify, are we talking about around the cost of a C3x00 for the entire handheld, or just the boards? I'm thinking you mean the boards, but it'd be good to be positive.

Quote
by the way i need ideas fr benchmarking the thing, what do you want to see it do, long battery life (eg lenght of time playing moives/mp3's), if so how long, quake playback at acceptable speeds and over wireless is one but i am intrested in what you want it to do in terms of hardware

For movie playback, at least 3 hours of continuos video playback, irregardless of codec (below MPEG 4 anyway). MPEG 4 can likely be played with very little involvement of the processor, so 3 to 5(what the PXA270 at 200MHz and 2700G in the Axim X50 can do) hours in it would be trivial for that, but I'm worried about the other codecs that are only partially accelerated.

30FPS Quake 3 at 640x480 with the processor at full speed(medium settings or higher). At least a couple of hours for that.

At least a day of off-and-on use, viewing PDFs, surfing the internet, video watching, etc. Probably at least 5 hours of continuous use web surfing with one radio on, and medium backlight to achieve that.

Basically, the longer the better, I believe some in this thread have stated two or more days non-continuous use. Finding the right size battery will be a careful juggling act. I'd love all week use, but I'm not willing to carry around a 6"x4"x3/4" 5200MAh Li-Ion battery to do it.

speculatrix

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« Reply #140 on: June 25, 2006, 03:56:08 am »
Quote
that modem is looking very atractive as i am not really game to put much effert into writing a gsm/3g stack, if i can buy one i would rather do that, latter down the track mabey someone can write one but i would like the hardware to work out of the box and not 3 months latter
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132673\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

if you feel up to writing a 3G stack, then you'e worth millions - Motorola bought TTPCOM here in England and the companies main intellectual property was GSM, GPRS, EDGE and 3G protocol stacks!
Gemini 4G/Wi-Fi owner, formerly zaurus C3100 and 860 owner; also owner of an HTC Doubleshot, a Zaurus-like phone.

stampsm

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« Reply #141 on: June 25, 2006, 04:52:36 am »
Quote
Quote
that modem is looking very atractive as i am not really game to put much effert into writing a gsm/3g stack, if i can buy one i would rather do that, latter down the track mabey someone can write one but i would like the hardware to work out of the box and not 3 months latter
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132673\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

if you feel up to writing a 3G stack, then you'e worth millions - Motorola bought TTPCOM here in England and the companies main intellectual property was GSM, GPRS, EDGE and 3G protocol stacks!
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132751\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]


any programmer can write anything provided they have enough time and their head does not pop from all the thinking that can be involved.  
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Da_Blitz

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« Reply #142 on: June 25, 2006, 06:12:20 am »
Head poping s what would prevent me form doing it

cost is not set in stone, i ment for the boaurds but am trying to facter the case into that. just need to get a parts list first
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Snappy

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« Reply #143 on: June 25, 2006, 07:28:35 am »
Quote
Quote
Quote
that modem is looking very atractive as i am not really game to put much effert into writing a gsm/3g stack, if i can buy one i would rather do that, latter down the track mabey someone can write one but i would like the hardware to work out of the box and not 3 months latter
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132673\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

if you feel up to writing a 3G stack, then you'e worth millions - Motorola bought TTPCOM here in England and the companies main intellectual property was GSM, GPRS, EDGE and 3G protocol stacks!
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132751\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]


any programmer can write anything provided they have enough time and their head does not pop from all the thinking that can be involved.  
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132754\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

yeap ... as a result, there are those who
1. Can code anything without their head popping
2. Cannot code everything without their head popping
3. Dare not code everything 'cos of fear that their head popping ...

 

The other thing is time-to-market. Any developer can write anything. But if he can only deliver it *after* everyone else has done so, then its more of a personal exercise in coding than being actually useful.

Anyway, a few things on my todo list ...
Snappy!
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Ferret-Simpson

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« Reply #144 on: June 26, 2006, 05:32:26 pm »
Et hem.

YOUR HEAD ASPLODE!

Sorry. . . Sorry. . .

On the note of that module: Wouldn't it be cheaper just to use an SMD chipset? That module gives us no 3g, after all. And the space wasted by the jack socket and empty air inside is probably quite big.

When you factor in designing the rest of the mobo, the addition of an onboard phone/modem chipset isn't a big job.

Also, if you remember thee ol' Freescale i300 Mobile processor we looked at, how much of a challenge would a dual-CPU setup be? - The dualchip system would take care of the second monitor output (For your little miniscreen) aswell as a 3g and phone connection.

In fact. Forget that.

http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/p...4Fs568199181427
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/p...4Fs568199180409

Ordered a couple of sample chips to play with, iMX31L and some Audio processors.

Annoyingly the Dragonball (Wristwatch) and RFX300-20 weren't sample'able.

Should be interesting, no?
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speculatrix

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« Reply #145 on: June 26, 2006, 05:39:34 pm »
this is a more recent posting on linuxdevices -
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8603019360.html
it looks like quite an interesting basis for our PocketPenguin, and "prices starting at $52" sounds good!
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stampsm

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« Reply #146 on: June 26, 2006, 06:23:17 pm »
Quote
this is a more recent posting on linuxdevices -
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8603019360.html
it looks like quite an interesting basis for our PocketPenguin, and "prices starting at $52" sounds good!
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

here is the web site for them
[a href=\"http://www.compulab.co.il/index.htm]http://www.compulab.co.il/index.htm[/url]
they do state astarting price of $52, but that is 1k quantity and the base design. if you want to add more features like memory, connectors, ect it is more
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« Reply #147 on: June 26, 2006, 09:22:29 pm »
I am realy wont join your group, I looked for linux pda around 3 years I already try sharp 5500, compaq 3800, psion 5x, jornada 720, but they are not pefect: no keyboard or no wi-fi
I am looking for somthing like this.
[img]http://i1.ebayimg.com/01/i/07/67/24/09_1.JPG\" border=\"0\" class=\"linked-image\" /]
New hardware inside old case it is cool
I need
cpu 400-520 mhz
ram 128-256 mb
flash 128-256 mb
screen 640x240 or vga
wi-fi
cf (one or two)
keyboard
long battery life.
You can count on me if you ordering parts or board.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2006, 09:52:07 pm by rusanov »

dhns

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« Reply #148 on: June 27, 2006, 04:10:56 am »
Quote
http://www.compulab.co.il/index.htm
they do state astarting price of $52, but that is 1k quantity and the base design. if you want to add more features like memory, connectors, ect it is more
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132957\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
A rough estimate for a useful design (Graphics, RTC, memory, WLAN) comes to 100$. For quantity 10 they charge the factor 2. So, it is $200 + LCD + Touch + Battery + Housing. So you come close to a C1000

-- hns
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Da_Blitz

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« Reply #149 on: June 27, 2006, 05:14:53 am »
I swear that compulab link is going to follow me to my grave, it must get mentioned every second day

thats the first time i have seen a pic of the psion but i have read up on them and would love to get my hands on one

watch out on those chips you ordered the L varient has no hardware video acceleration, but if you can whip up a board i may get a couple as well, i am a hardware guy not a kernel hacker so i wouldnt get the kernel running ( i have a feeling it already works) but it would be a nice platform for some asm work

for the RF stuff: http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/p...=01J4Fsm6cyDbFf
note that this is a "platform" as is the other i300 link, they are NOT an all in one chipset they are in fact a gruop of chipsets, thats why i mention it as it tells you which chips you need to imlement a 3G solution

if any of you guys want to talk in realtime feel free to add me to your MSN acounts or email me if your on a diffrent protocal and i will sign up, my login name is "jaycoles (a) yahoo.com and i go by the handel "DaBlitz Heavy Industries"

just a note, if it appears on linuxdevices i have probelly already seen it (i check it daily)
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