SL-C860 Price UP!

[TonyOlsen]

I wasn\'t saying that Zauruses might disappear... I was talking specifically about the VGA Clamshell models.  Usually those stick around for 2-3 years and then disappear.

VGA (and, for the most part (Exception: HP and a few others), Clam Shell) isn\'t something companies tend to make long term commitments to.  That\'s why the C7x0 and C860 aren\'t yet sold in the USA.  Many americans (unfortunately) don\'t like the tiny keyboard and would prefer none at all over having a small one... and many people don\'t like the small 640x480 VGA screen.

I personally love that stuff... but the market isn\'t there, which is why the companies don\'t commit to them.  I wouldn\'t cound on the SL-Cxx0 VGA Clamshell models hanging around for long.

Usually each company takes a stab at it once.  IBM did it with the PC110, which was gone in 3 years.  HP did it with the HP 100LX and 200LX (The still have half VGA, but the devices are HUGE) which was gone in 3 years.  Toshiba did it with Libretto (which was HUGE) which kept getting larger and larger and was gone in about 3 years.  ...And Sharp is making the VGA Zauruses... which I\'m thinking will only be around for a total of 2-3 years.

Buy them while you can...

[DrWowe]

I think the reason why the Yopy, and others, don\'t appeal is that we don\'t really want a PDA at all, we want a pocket sized Unix workstation.  That means high res screen, keyboard, expandability, etc.  The more high-end the better.  The Sl-6000 and Cxxx models come closer to fulfilling this desire than anything else currently available.

VGA is finally here to stay however.  Microsoft has proved this by (finally) adding it to the latest PocketPC OS.  Even clamshell might make a mass market comeback, although it will probably be x86 compatible when it does.

[TonyOlsen]

I sure hope you\'re right!

[padishah_emperor]

Microsoft has proved this by (finally) adding it to the latest PocketPC OS.  Even clamshell might make a mass market comeback, although it will probably be x86 compatible when it does.

x86 compatibility for Linux users isn\'t really an issue if you can compile code.

As for that PocketPC thing, I take comfort from an article I read about a month ago (I\'ll have to look for it again) where Microsofts co-founder was quizzed about the future of PocketPC, to which he replied \"what future?\"

Nuff said.

That\'s why the C7x0 and C860 aren\'t yet sold in the USA.  Many americans (unfortunately) don\'t like the tiny keyboard and would prefer none at all over having a small one...

mmh, but not all of us are American, eh? ;-) It\'s a bit rich to assume everything is done to please America. Maybe Japanese and European hands are smaller than American ones, maybe using a special wand would help. :-) These were made for the Japanese market, not the American. I personally waited a decade for this machine.

BTW I was answering the original posting, sorry if I did not make that clear.

Usually each company takes a stab at it once.  IBM did it with the PC110, which was gone in 3 years.  HP did it with the HP 100LX and 200LX (The still have half VGA, but the devices are HUGE) which was gone in 3 years.  Toshiba did it with Libretto (which was HUGE) which kept getting larger and larger and was gone in about 3 years.  ...And Sharp is making the VGA Zauruses... which I\'m thinking will only be around for a total of 2-3 years.

How do you define HUGE? If it can fit in a coat pocket, it\'s pocket sized. The Atari Portfolio - that was huge-ish. But as an owner of both HP95LX and HP200LX, these are not big machines, a laptop is HUGE, not a palmtop.  Also you miss one critical point, no matter how long they are run-off at a factory, the usability is much longer - 10 years for my 200LX, I know solicitors and doctors using Psions 10 years on. If it ain\'t broke don\'t fix it.

Back on topic...

The price increase on the C860 is nothing to worry about at all.. unless you\'re about to buy one.

[TonyOlsen]

x86 compatibility for Linux users isn\'t really an issue if you can compile code.  

That\'s part of the problem.  Some applications were built for x86 and don\'t have source code available (or open-source counterparts).  It\'s good to have at least an x86 emulator available (still trying to find ANYONE who has installed Bochs on a VGA Zaurus).

mmh, but not all of us are American, eh?  It\'s a bit rich to assume everything is done to please America. Maybe Japanese and European hands are smaller than American ones, maybe using a special wand would help.  These were made for the Japanese market, not the American. I personally waited a decade for this machine.  

I know that... but I was refering to why these products don\'t last in America long.  I have a personal vested interest in the availability of these gadgets in America since I happen to live here.  :wink:   I personally can\'t speak for why it doesn\'t come to other countries because I have little experience there, which is why I was only talking about America.

How do you define HUGE?

Sorry, to me PDAs and handhelds are huge if they don\'t fit in your pocket.

I hope I\'m wrong abut this, but if the VGA Clamshell Zauruses stay on the market for longer than 3 years it\'ll be the first time in history a PDA has done that.  Here\'s hoping that VGA clamshells will be around forever.

[rikiya]

Mmmm I don\'t think that it will be such a problem if the Sharp Clamshell extinct cause they\'re probably gonna sell they\'re technology and stuff to different companies which will make it like a z....? not really making sense but so what... I might be wrong but come reasons the z isn\'t in the U.S. is that shipping will be costy, and one thing sharp made is a decision. They picked to make all their products in Japan since they used to make things in china and korea and finally bring it back to japan but that was a problem. From the high tech. of sharp the other countries that were making them will sneak out some and steal the tech... The z might not extinct at all cause eveyone loves them in Japan!

[amrein]

I hope I\'m wrong abut this, but if the VGA Clamshell Zauruses stay on the market for longer than 3 years it\'ll be the first time in history a PDA has done that. Here\'s hoping that VGA clamshells will be around forever.

 :shock:

_Atari portfolio, the first one, live for more than 4 years.

_HP95LX, HP100LX, HP200LX, HP1000LX, then a lot of other HP model using PPC but with the clamshells design too (HP320, ...?), then the HP680, HP710, HP720, HP728. More than 10 years of evolution (and I still have my HP200 and it works great). Those HP device was killed by the press who were saying that it was heavy and that their keyboard wasn\'t as confortable as a PC keyboard (do you remember when HP released a jocke: an annimation annoncement with a big unfoldable keyboard that was opening on top of a small pda?)

_ Psion S3, S3a, S3c, S3mx, Siena, S5, S5mx, Révo, Révo+, Diamond Mako, netBook, Ericsson 618c. More than 10 years of evolution.

_ Nokia communicator series: 6 years.

And I don\'t talk about the Sharp pda with closed source OS. So be continued ...

[padishah_emperor]

I hope I\'m wrong abut this, but if the VGA Clamshell Zauruses stay on the market for longer than 3 years it\'ll be the first time in history a PDA has done that. Here\'s hoping that VGA clamshells will be around forever.

 :shock:

_Atari portfolio, the first one, live for more than 4 years.

_HP95LX, HP100LX, HP200LX, HP1000LX, then a lot of other HP model using PPC but with the clamshells design too (HP320, ...?), then the HP680, HP710, HP720, HP728. More than 10 years of evolution (and I still have my HP200 and it works great). Those HP device was killed by the press who were saying that it was heavy and that their keyboard wasn\'t as confortable as a PC keyboard (do you remember when HP released a jocke: an annimation annoncement with a big unfoldable keyboard that was opening on top of a small pda?)

_ Psion S3, S3a, S3c, S3mx, Siena, S5, S5mx, Révo, Révo+, Diamond Mako, netBook, Ericsson 618c. More than 10 years of evolution.

_ Nokia communicator series: 6 years.

And I don\'t talk about the Sharp pda with closed source OS. So be continued ...

Well, I thought hell would freeze over before I agreed with amrein, but.....

I agree with amrein on this one. ;-)

[TonyOlsen]

_Atari portfolio, the first one, live for more than 4 years.

Wasn\'t VGA.  I\'m talking about pocket sized VGA (or half VGA) clamshells.

_HP95LX, HP100LX, HP200LX, HP1000LX, then a lot of other HP model using PPC but with the clamshells design too (HP320, ...?), then the HP680, HP710, HP720, HP728. More than 10 years of evolution (and I still have my HP200 and it works great). Those HP device was killed by the press who were saying that it was heavy and that their keyboard wasn\'t as confortable as a PC keyboard (do you remember when HP released a jocke: an annimation annoncement with a big unfoldable keyboard that was opening on top of a small pda?)  

Like I said, the HP PDAs after the 200LX were \"Huge\", meaning non-pocket-sized.  The 95LX wasn\'t VGA or half VGA.  The 100LX, 200LX, and 1000LX span about 3 years.

_ Psion S3, S3a, S3c, S3mx, Siena, S5, S5mx, Révo, Révo+, Diamond Mako, netBook, Ericsson 618c. More than 10 years of evolution.

I don\'t know much about these.  Were they VGA/half VGA?  Do they qualify.  

_ Nokia communicator series: 6 years.  

I didn\'t think this was VGA/half VGA either.   :roll:

The point I brought up was the companies haven\'t been making longterm commitments to VGA clamshell pocket-size devices.  It is usually about 3 years.

[padishah_emperor]

Hi Tony,

I think I know what you are trying to say, but I\'m not too sure what the point of it is.  In the last year or so Sharp have produced the C700, C750, C760, C860 and 6000 all with CG Silicon screens, is that going to continue? Yes, most likely. Why? Because this is a proprietary screen technology, plus, there is little chance in them downgrading displays. Will Americans like it or want to buy it? Not relevant really, these are mainly a Japanese product.  Is higher definition PDA screens the way forward? Yes.

Now, pointing out other machines from the last decade, you omit some factors, the lack for the most part of proprietary screen technologies plus the cost of producing them. Libretto, NetBook and other VGA screens were costly to produce and were larger, it\'s only in recent years the cost effectiveness of colour screens has been conducive to producing them. Mono screens for PDA use is declining. In a similar way, VGA resolution screens will eventually replace QVGA 320x240 screens, they will get cheaper.

This 3 year thing, are you referring to production span, availability or usability? I think the fact that a decade on, we still have VGA or half-VGA screens, clamshells etc. shows that these type of machines are still popular and are needed for those who require more than a simple PDA or personal organiser.

I have got my elderly HP200LX out, bless her, not huge. It fits in the pocket. The question is, what kind of pocket? Jeans? No. Trousers/Shirt pocket? I don\'t wear those kind of clothes regularly, but a 860 fits a shirt pocket so I\'m told. Would get crushed eventually anyway, I know Palm and iPaq users who have mashed theirs. :twisted:  LOL!

Also I don\'t mean to be negative, because I am always brimming with joy, but this should probably be a new thread, because the subject has strayed off rikya\'s original observation. ;-)

BTW 3 years for a profit making corporation is a long time. :-)

[TonyOlsen]

This 3 year thing, are you referring to production span, availability or usability?

I was refering to availability.  I agree that things will eventually move to VGA screens permanently.  Is that time now?  I hope so, but I\'m not counting on it.  There may be a few more in-production / out-of-production wobbles before it gets permanently adopted.  ...but here\'s hoping.