Author Topic: 5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?  (Read 7321 times)

tweakt

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« on: May 17, 2004, 04:42:19 pm »
I\'m a seasoned Linux guy looking to get into Zaurus hacking.  I plan on running kismet, with an 802.11b card, GPS, web browsing, simple remote access (ssh?), serial console. In short, there\'s many applications I\'d like to try out, so my main use would be as a general purpose pocket-sized laptop, with *some* PIM usage (basic contacts/calandering but I\'m sure I\'ll find other uses).

My question is two-fold. First of all, from purely a value standpoint, is the 5600 worth it? I see a lot of people happy with thier 5500\'s. Will I notice the 400Mhz? What things, if any, will I not be able to do with a 5500? I\'ve heard battery life is dramatically better, is it that extreme? What are people\'s opinion on the difference in RAM? Does that have a noticeable impact on anything?

And secondly: development/hacking. Is the 5600 as supported? How large is the user base? Are the custom roms, compilers (gcc?), being worked on for the 5600, or will I be blazing my own trail so to speak? It seems like it hasn\'t caught on as much with the community, it\'s not even mentioned in the FAQ :-(

I get the sense the 5600\'s are hard to find, didn\'t sell as well and are being largely overshadowed by the C-series.

Hopefully some of you can provide me a little insight... thanks  ;-)

cgrieves

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2004, 05:19:25 pm »
I\'m a Zaurus newbie with a bit of Linux experience. I just bought a 5600 and am very happy with it, but most of your fears are probably founded- the 5500 has a larger userbase, is more supported, and the units themselves are cheaper. Battery life is criticized on the 5500 but I believe there are solutions to that also.

On the speed front, if you do go for a 5600 make sure you get one with a PXA255 processor. The PXA250 fitted to most 5600s has a bug. The workaround for the bug means from the factory it runs at half speed. Given that half the memory is flash rather than dynamic, this means that in some situations a PXA250 processor equipped 5600 is actually slower than a 5500. The PXA255 fixes the bug and means you get the speed benefit. Having said all that, if you do end up with a 5600 with a PXA250, it\'s not the end of the world: thanks to the users on this forum there are special kernels that bypass the bugfix and give you the full 400Mhz. The tradeoff is potential instability, although I haven\'t had any problems with mine. With the CPU running at 400Mhz you will almost certainly notice the speed increase over the 5500, not that the 5500 is slow.

At the end of the day the 5600 is a great machine, but I think the smart money goes on the 5500 and some sort of extended battery solution. If you\'re really rolling in it then go for the 6000 which has VGA, a decent battery, built in WiFi on some models, and a bright future (hopefully).

People who actually know what they are talking about will be along shortly

mp2100zaurus

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2004, 05:34:02 pm »
If you are serious about the wi-fi, I\'d go with the 5600.  I only have a 5500, but the battery is small.  I get about 50 minutes of usage when running 802.11b.  If you don\'t mind an external battery extender, then that\'s one solution.
SL-5500 w/Sharp 2.37
Ambicom cf56m-ez modem
Ambicom wl1100c-cf wifi
IrDA to T68 mobile

tecknobabble

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2004, 05:48:56 pm »
Memory... with the 5500 and one of the kernels with a 64-0 memory split (e.g. Crow like) you have the trade off of running with your filesystem on an SD card but you do have the full 64Mb to run programs in.
SL-5500, Own custom Crow-like ROM, DLink DCF-660W, Pocketop Keyboard, assorted no-name CF/SD cards.

SubApplet extender and maintainer, ditto for TaskList applet and Missile Command

tweakt

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2004, 05:59:48 pm »
Sorry, I guess this is sort of a dupe since I just found this post:
http://www.zaurususergroup.com/index.php?n...iewtopic&t=3108

Flash

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2004, 08:11:02 pm »
After having read thru this whole post, I have one nagging question. Which one is the best? I am damn sick and tired of \'almost there\'.
I would like to know I have a computer in my hand, not an experimental platform that requires hacking, like it or not, to get it working. A lot of you guys are far superior to me in asfar as computer know how is concerned. That being said, I gotta say the man asked a question, and left me and maybe him, wondering. which one is the best? For his purposes and for that  matter the \'everyday\' guy that just needs a working unit. The reason IBM gets the dough tehy do for the 6000, is it comes ready to go, no BS. For the money, seems like the best bargain.

Ethereal

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2004, 09:46:12 pm »
Any of the Zaurii (I speculate) will do \"out of the box\" every bit as much as a Palm or PPC.  The problem is, that\'s not much.  It\'s in the extension of functionality that the \"hacking\" comes in.  Most Zaurus users (at least here at ZUG) either like hacking because they are tinkerers by nature, or are willing to put up with hacking because it\'s better to have a solution that requires a little \"fine tuning\" than one that allows no tuning at all (PPC)...
SL-6000L, Sharp ROM 1.12;
Socket Rev 2.5 CF Bluetooth::SE T608;
Sandisk 512MB SD, formatted ext2;
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RichS

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2004, 11:36:55 pm »
The 5600 is deffinitely the best!  Does that answer the question?

Of course, I might feel differently if I owned another model! ;-)

In mmy opinion, there\'s not enough of a difference from the user\'s viewpoint to decide which is better between the 5500 and 5600.

The simple reasons I bought the 5600 are:

Much bigger battery.
Newer, including the software.
Supposedly a better screen(? I have no idea if true)
And who knew it would be discontinued weeks after I bought it?
Faster processor (maybe?)

I would undoubtedly be just as hapy with a 5500 as everything I do with mine, people do with 5500\'s.

I have yet to find a Z program written for the 5500 that I can\'t run. I\'m sure there are some out there someplace?

The simple solution is: buy one and be happy with what you have. With the help I\'ve received here, we\'ve gotten roadmap to work just fine, slrn (thank you!!!) and many other programs. So far there is nothing I want to do with my Z that I haven\'t been able to. But I\'m still searching ;-)

The only thing I haven\'t done is run another kernel. I just don\'t see any reason to. The Sharp kernel does everything I want, never crashes and works just fine...

As far as being a \"PDA\", I think the Z is the best I\'ve ever seen and I use it as one. As far as the Z being a computer, it is and works great and I use it as one. Although using it as a VNC viewer to control my dekstop machines may not be in the category of \'computer\'? I don\'t know. But it does a few other computerish things too ;-)

Now if the 6000 would just be discontinued so I could afford one of those.....
SL-5600 Sharp v.1.32 ROM
CE-AG06 camera
Linksys WCF-12 wireless CF
D-Link DCF-660W wireless CF (dead!)
Sandisk 64meg SD, 256meg CF
Kingston 512meg CF
Viking 128meg SD, 1 gig CF

tweakt

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2004, 02:04:29 pm »
Ok. I\'ve come to the conclusion the processor will not make too HUGE a difference in what I\'d like to use it for. And while the amount of working RAM is an issue, it seems like I\'d be fine there with either

That leaves battery life, and price.

If the battery life is truly double on the 5600 that would be a large influence on my decision. Some questions around that however: Is the extra battery life only a result of the larger battery or, is the 5600 more energy efficient? The reason I ask is, for certain applications, running wireless, I may likely be running with an external battery pack anyhow. So if they both draw the same power, in theory they would both be equal when running on an external pack.

Also, in the battery life tests I\'ve heard, the test is based on continuous use with the light on. How useable is it with the screen off, obviously it\'s not needed outdoors, how about indoors under normal room lighting? And how much does running wireless degrade performance? As much as the backlight? More?

And finally, it may ultimately come down to availability. Supplies of 5600\'s seem scarce. eBay currently has only 4 listed. I\'m not willing to pay more than $250 (not including accessories). The limited supply tends to drive up the price. Some auctions with several days left already have 10 or 20 bids. Is there anywhere else I should check for a good deal?

Inuyasha

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2004, 02:34:15 pm »
I\'m happy with the 5600 I have, although the only thing I don\'t like is no really working OZ yet (but that\'s coming along).

On the battery life, I\'ve had it running on wireless for a while (Linksys WCF12), about... 30-40 minutes straight with only dropping down to about 75%. The battery life is definatly very nice. On the battery I have it set for the lowest light level, but not off (since the screen is hard to see in the complete dark, unless you\'re in a very well lit area).

On the processor, the Special Kernel v1.3 is very nice for changing that. You get the full CPU power plus a bit extra. It can be overclocked up to 471Mhz, which is more than my main desktop.

On the RAM, although you can\'t run with 64MB of pure RAM, the 32 is adequate, and if you need more, you can use a (slightly) slower swap file, but if you just use the browser and have one other application open, the RAM is fine (for my usage, anyways).

The price may be a problem, but I can\'t really suggest much to help you on that point, sorry.
-Justin

Zaurus SL-5600
PXA250
Mildly customized 1.32 Sharp ROM
Custom (cache workaround disabled only) zImage
256 MB Transcend Compact Flash, 64 MB Transcend MMC
Linksys WCF12 WiFi Card
Palm Tungsten T Stylus

PowerBook 12" G4 1 Ghz/1.25 GB RAM/80 GB HD/32 MB GeForce FX Go5200
OS X 10.3.4

Pentium II 417 Mhz/320 MB RAM/2x 20 GB HD/64 MB ATI Radeon 7500
Debian Sid

tweakt

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2004, 02:59:25 pm »
Hmm, interesting, so comparing with cgrieves\' post earlier...
that would seem to suggest the 5600 has almost 4x the battery life while running Wifi? ( 45min -] empty vs. 30-40min -] 75%).

And that also suggests over 2-1/2hrs with a wireless card running on the 5600? Wow... that IS impressive. :shock: I might not even need the external pack for the stuff I have planned.

Well then, I guess if I can be patient enough to score one for $250, then I\'ll end up with a 5600...  guess I\'ll see how long I can hold out  :roll:

n8a

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2004, 03:36:05 pm »
tweakt, two good options for the 5500 that I\'m using that may address your concerns:

1) Get a 2nd battery on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...ssPageName=WDVW
They can often be had for ~ $15 + shipping, which is VERY nice for these LION batteries.  It\'s not as good as the 5600 battery, but with two you should be in good shape and will know very accurately when you\'re half done

Also, you can get car chargers on eBay for VERY cheap for the zaurus - around $8 IIRC.

2) Get a SD card and use derekp\'s home-on-sd:
derekp created a script that allows you to operate off of an SD card and rely on the RAM for memory/swap.  I use it with tkcROM 2.0-alpha3 and I\'m able to have lots of stuff open/operating at once (bluetooth connection, 5-6 opera windows, music) with no hiccup.  Since using this, my memory probs have completely disappeared.

Since you can grab a 256MB SD card ~ $40 (buy.com, ecost), this is a very cost effective solution IMO.

I still use my 5500 regularly for PIMs, browsing via bluetooth, reading articles, email, etc.  It\'s fine and I rarely use the backup battery, but that\'s probably due to the chargers that I also keep handy.

On top of great compatibility and lower price, I hope that helps you deal with the drawbacks of the 5500.  Good luck!

zbones

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2004, 04:11:38 pm »
I would imagine that you would get slightly less than double the run time in an exact like for like test.

I would also imagine (can\'t test it as I have never seen an sl5600, nor I am I likely too as they don\'t sell them in the UK) that they draw similar power from the battery.

The battery monitor is very poor at detecting voltage levels and (like the fuel guage on my car) report full for a long time, than drop to 75% briefly, then say \"Please recharge the battery\" very shortly after.

Basically if you get 1 hours use out of your battery you would expect it to show 9(something)% after about 10mins, not 100% as both my Zauri show after 20mins usage.

My 5500 has a 960mah battery my c760 has a 1700 mah and I believe the 5600 has the same battery as my c760.  I get slighlty less than double the usage on my c760.

It also depends on how much power your cf wireless card uses as they are not all the same.

A battery extender using 4 1800mah 1.2v AA ni-mh batteries can be built very easily for £2 + about £5 for the batteries.  This gives me approx 2 full re-charges on my 5500 or allows me to run it nearly all day continually (without wi-fi), you can also build them using \'C\' and \'D\' cells (bigger, heavier and more expensive! but give you *many* re-charges).

You can also build one using 8 AA ni-mh batteries 4*4 in parralel, or use an RC-car battery and a regulator, or buy a custom 5v battery pack designed for a camcorder, or use a car-charger, or use a usb charger from a pc, or use a solar panel, or use one of the funky phone one time recharger packs (expensive), or ......   The possibilities are enless if you have the imagination and either a basic understanding of electronics or the willingness to learn.

Battery power is only an issue if you can\'t be botherd to explore the many other sources, or just want it to work without any fiddling/extra cost/extra wires etc.

They are both very good machines, you have to prioritise the pro\'s/cons yourslef based on you and your expected usage from the device.

If money was no object, then you will want to upgrade very quickly, but I suspect if that was the case you would not be asking this question in the first place.

Also, most of the \"seasoned hackers\" who can afford it have allready upgraded to either the sl6000, or the cxx0 series (at a guess the cxx0 wins at the moment, but this may change as the sl6000 is still very new).

The cxx0 series came out at about the same time as the 5600 and was much harder to obtain for the us/europeans but somehow got a working oz install before the 5600 did, and the pdaxrom.  Also the 5500 still has new releases of kernel/roms released fairly regularly from the community.

In terms of already developed apps, the 5500 had the bigger user base because the 5600 was not percieved as a big enough improvement to warrant  an upgrade ( and was only released in America, where as the 5500 was almost worldwide).

Having said that the vast majority of software will run on the 5600, but low level stuff like rom upgrades won\'t

Your wish list will work fine on either model, but your wish list may change somewhat once you get more familiar with the device.

I would not have bothererd typing all this if you had just wanted a pda, but I get the impression that you will want more out of it as your knowledge and experience grows.

They are both good machines, you have to prioritise what you *most* want out of it before you make that decision, then expect it to change once you own one :wink:

From What I gather they are both now largely discontinued and only available from selected places.

I have probably confused you even more now, but  if you have anymore questions, then ask away.

Peter
Zaurus cl760, cacko QT rom. Zaurus sl5500 with TKCrom 1.0.
512mb Kingston cf card, 256mb Sandisk sd card, Lexar 256mb sd card.
Bluemonkey bluetooth card <-> Sony Ericsson k700i for gprs.
Buffalo WLI-CF-S11G wifi card. Haicom 303 mmf gps cf/seral card.

tweakt

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2004, 04:48:02 pm »
Quote
I have probably confused you even more now, but if you have anymore questions, then ask away.

No.... that was actually VERY helpful. Thank you!

After thinking it over a bit more....  for the money, the 5500 is the right choice for me. And I\'ll know soon enough after using it for a bit if I need more. I can always upgrade later (probably to a 6000 when they\'re cheaper).

zbones

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5600 worth it? Or go with 5500?
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2004, 05:32:48 pm »
Quote
No.... that was actually VERY helpful. Thank you!  

After thinking it over a bit more....  for the money, the 5500 is the right choice for me. And I\'ll know soon enough after using it for a bit if I need more. I can always upgrade later (probably to a 6000 when they\'re cheaper).


I waited 10 years for a handheld (palmtop?) to have the specs of a Zaurus before I dipped my toe in the water.

To run Doom fullscreen, on a pda, was totally awe inspiring! and you can do this on a 5500! but it does run sideways.

But once bitten twice shy, as they say.  I manged to last a whole 5 months before buying a c760, but I am firmly of the clamshell brigade and eagerly await the much anticipated c960.

To *mis*quote George Orwell, \"Landscape good, Portrait bad\"
Your mileage may vary!

Peter
Zaurus cl760, cacko QT rom. Zaurus sl5500 with TKCrom 1.0.
512mb Kingston cf card, 256mb Sandisk sd card, Lexar 256mb sd card.
Bluemonkey bluetooth card <-> Sony Ericsson k700i for gprs.
Buffalo WLI-CF-S11G wifi card. Haicom 303 mmf gps cf/seral card.