Zaurus has competition from Windows?!?

[roderickv]

I looked at both these devices. The Sony Vaio is not impressive to me at all. Besides, Sony just announced that they are dropping all hand held/ Palmtop lines in the US. So it will probably never make it out of Japan anyway.

The OQO has some promise. It docks into a docking station, so the idea of taking your full functioning computer wherever you go becomes more of a reality. No syncing needed. Built in Bluetooth, and 802.11b, nice but why not 802.11g? 20 gig HD, 1ghz processor, 256DDR RAM, also nice for the size. Firewire, nice too. But why in the world would you only have USB 1.1? Also, no CF or SD slots?? Not good. The right idea, but it needs to be tweeked some. Maybe second or third generation will be worth taking a look at - when the price comes down and they correct the mistakes mentioned above. Until then I will continue the love affair with my C860....

[roderickv]

What killed Psion was the lack of hardware investment, so that although it had (and still has) the best PDA software around and by-far the best keyboard, no-one wants to be using an 18MHz b&w screened PDA any more when there are 400MHz full-colour devices around.

Disagree with you on this point my friend! The best PDA software with \"one of the \"best keyboards\" (more sturdier than the Psion) was the Sharp Zaurus ZR-5800. I still own both and used them for years, in fact my new C860 replaced my Psion 5mx which had replaced my Zaurus ZR-5800. The death nail for the Psion was when the company discontinued the line and pulled support. Agreed it was on it\'s last leg but there was a significant user base still out there, me included. The Zaurus ZR- line had a similar fate but Sharp refused to release the SDK so 3rd party software was practically nonexistent. But nothing compaires to the tight integration of the Zaurus ZR-5800 software! Because it was proprietary, it was tight (you could link anything to anything else and time and date stamp it at the same time) couldn\'t do that with the Psion 5mx) and it was word and excel compatible. You could print directly from it to a printer for goodness sakes!  I wish someone-anyone would/could  develop a copie of it to run on the new Zaurus C860, I would be in heaven and I am positive so would a lot of others.

[TonyOlsen]

Sony just announced that they are dropping all hand held/ Palmtop lines in the US.

\"Palmtop\"?  Sony actually refers to that as a Palmtop?  I remember when notebooks used to be almost that small... and they called them \"Laptops\".  Palmtop doesn\'t mean you can \"hold it in your hand\" it means \"it is smaller than your hand\".  I often hold my laptop in my hands and it is a heavy beast... but it isn\'t a palmtop, and neither is this \"Notebook\" from Viao.

Zaurus... now THAT\'s a palmtop.  

802.11b, nice but why not 802.11g? ... But why in the world would you only have USB 1.1? Also, no CF or SD slots??  

I missed that before.  Yes... the lack of CF, & USB 2 is a big deal.  (I personally can live without the SD slot   I don\'t like the \"closed greedy\" SD patent owners and I don\'t think we should head down that path, unless needed... such as with the Zauri).  I don\'t know enough about the 802.11b versus 802.11g to know the difference.  Is 802.11g faster?

[ScottYelich]

I dunno
I\'d be quite happy with win 95 on the zaurus ....
in some sort of emulator -- so I could play some simple/old games.

Scott

[padishah_emperor]

You sound bitter, must have something to do with that Sun box...  

No I am not bitter at all, I\'d shoot Bill G dead without a flicker of moral doubt if I could but I\'m not bitter.  I\'m not bitter that people throw money at him for producing something no more interesting than a half baked cow turd, I\'m not bitter that I and my parents went through hell and back to pay for tertiary degrees in a subject that was killed for me by Microsoft and brain dead managers who buy their stuff. I\'m not bitter that that mogul makes millions in the time it takes me to lay a dump, while children starve and most of the world struggles on less than a dollar a day. Not bitter at all really, coz I am never going to work in IT or buy MS products ever again. It\'s a blessing, not something to be bitter about.    Free at last, free at last, thank God, I am free at last.

I don\'t have to justify anything to you do I?  

Nope. Feel free to quit anytime.   :roll:

Well thanks for your permission to bail, but I wasn\'t addressing you.  :roll:


Look, these things may be ok for some, no doubt. Not for me. I have the device/ uPC I always wanted, it would do *nothing* for me at all, in fact I would get much less use from one of these than I would a Z, so why would I want one?  I pity those who constantly search for more and more things to buy and never find any joy or contentment, it\'s sad. And like I said, I justify nothing to no man.

What a lovely chat this is.

Tony is right of course, if it shipped with Linux by default and had 2 or 3 times the battery life and a quarter of the price, I\'d look again.  I just have a moral and ideological objection to anything Windows.

[TonyOlsen]

have the device/ uPC I always wanted, it would do *nothing* for me at all, in fact I would get much less use from one of these than I would a Z, so why would I want one?

For me this device holds 3 specific things I\'m very interested in:
* x86 support (to play old PC games and my now obsolete e-book reader from the 1980s)
* Faster (The Zauri is still a little slow for some \"desktop\" stuff such as high-quality video playback and 3d games)
* More harddrive space.  (I spent a small fortune to get 2 GB for my Zaurus and this has TEN TIMES that much!)

The extra ports, and built-in wifi, would also be helpful.

It does look awkward, though... not as stylish and cool as my clamshell C860... and it took me 1 whole year to save up for my $1000 Zaurus device and accessories... I don\'t think I would have $2,000 anytime soon...

So... for me it\'s really cool, somewhat laking in some areas, but too expensive.  Hopefully in 3 years (when I\'m ready for my next \"Palmtop\") this device will have a grandson which will have the missing pieces and will be cheaper.

...and \"yes\", I would hopefully be running Linux on it.

I would say that the whole Zaurus movement isn\'t as much about these Sharp devices as much as having powerful Linux Palmtops.  Most of the work done here would be useful for an x86 Linux Palmtop as well.   What does everyone else think?

[TonyOlsen]

I pity those who constantly search for more and more things to buy and never find any joy or contentment, it\'s sad.  

I\'m looking for a desktop replacement.  My Zaurus might \"barely\" make the cut, but I would have to compromis on a lot of stuff.  Yes, I AM looking for a new device, and my SL-C860 IS only a temporary machine (temporary meaning 3 years or so).  I am still looking for a desktop replacement without compromises...

I\'m still looking for OpenOffice in my Palm...

[nathanwms]

This is a very interesting discussion indeed, which for me only solidifies in my mind that as far as form factor and features, Sharp is on the right track and has just about everything we are all asking for.  If the next generation Zaurus Clamshell integrates all the things we have added externally (more memory, wifi, bluetooth) I think we have a winner.

My desired palmtop specs:

Form Factor: SL-CXXX
Display: 4\" CG Silicon Transflective or 4\" OLED
Internal storage: 256 mb ram and internal 4GB (or higher) microdrive
Ext. expansion: CF and SD
Processor: new Intel x-scale processor, up to 624 mHz (rumored)
Wireless: Built-in 802-11g and Bluetooth
Battery: capable of 8 hours continuous wi-fi use (possibly fuel cell)
Other hardware options: USB host, speaker, built-in microphone, button activated screen rotation
Software: New PIMs comparable with Palm devices, rock solid sync on all platforms

I don\'t think this is asking too much, seeing as much of this is currently available and employed technology. Something on this order would provide many of us the power and flexibility we need in a laptop replacement without a significant increase in size.

[TonyOlsen]

I agree with everything above!

...except 1 thing...

Internal storage: 256 mb ram and internal 4GB (or higher) microdrive  

256 MB Ram, yes.  4GB, yes.  Microdrive, no.  Static Flash, yes.  Would you want to have to go and buy another Zaurus just because your internal microdrive has crashed?... otherwise you would have to disect your Zaurus to replace the crashed microdrive manually.

Also, we would need a change in mentality towards the VGA Zauri.  If the hardware is a replacement for your laptop, but people still think of it as a PDA, then the desktop apps will never get ported to the Zaurus.   ...and the Zaurus would end up only a \"very powerful PDA\" instead of a \"slightly slow laptop\".

Case in point:  OpenOffice, Complete Browser, Complete E-mail applications (with Exchange support), etc...

[padishah_emperor]

Actually I have to disagree Tony, I\'d prefer a removable microdrive to flash, my only gripe with the C series is the use of flash memory which will eventually start dying, it\'s the weakest link in the chain. Not an issue for people who look at the Z as a temporary thing as you do, but I want 5-10 years life from mine.

Also you\'re missing the point I made earlier, speed.  It does not matter how fast these PC\'s are, they are still too slow for practical usage.  Can you boot, click on OpenOffice and wait for it to load within 2 or 3 seconds? No, the Z can do it with HancomWord.  It\'s the reason I don\'t use pdaXrom anymore, I don\'t want to wait for things to load, AbiWord was too slow to load. These PC\'s would need 6GHz processors and some kind of hard disk from the Starship Enterprise to work as fast. 20GB HD, nice but would soon fill up with full apps etc. I\'ll never fill the internal storage on my Z in 10 years. A 4GB microdrive on my Z will go MUCH further than it would on a PC equivalent. Big PC applications on a device as small as a Z are just not needed for me, and would be slow and cumbersome to use, I just could not get the practical usage from it.

Anyway, I\'m done on this thread, I\'ve said my peice.

[TonyOlsen]

flash memory ... will eventually start dying

Where did you hear that?  Flash memory won\'t die any faster than the CPU of your computer.  It\'s a microchip.  No moving parts = No wear.  Theoretically the movement of the electrons will eventually eat away at inidividual atoms, but I doubt you\'ll notice any problems for a thousand years or so...

You would also still have your CF card to put whatever you want on it.

Also you\'re missing the point I made earlier, speed. It does not matter how fast these PC\'s are, they are still too slow for practical usage. Can you boot, click on OpenOffice and wait for it to load within 2 or 3 seconds? No, the Z can do it with HancomWord.  

I agree.  Speed IS an issue (I mentioned that as 1 of my 3 wishes above).

These PC\'s would need 6GHz processors and some kind of hard disk from the Starship Enterprise to work as fast.  

LOL!!    

20GB HD, nice but would soon fill up with full apps etc. I\'ll never fill the internal storage on my Z in 10 years.  

You lost me.  You would \"soon\" fill up 20 GB, but it would take you 10+ years to fill up 2-4 GB?  Isn\'t that backwards?  Are you refering to Windows apps being larger?  If so: 1) We would have Linux on it, not Windows, 2) Windows is bloated, yes... but not THAT bloated.  My Windows machine has: OS (600 MB), and apps (2 GB)... and I have almost everything on it.  20 GB is a lot of space (even for Windows machines).  Of course... most people fill up their 20 GB... but it\'s not with OS and Apps... it\'s with digital pictures, videos, files, etc...

Anyway, I\'m done on this thread, I\'ve said my peice.

May the force be with you.

[padishah_emperor]

Actually flash has a finite number of ops before it starts going, its gone 2AM here and I am too knackered to remember the exact details, it\'s about 100,000 erase/write cycles I think. If like me your\'re into heavy use and compiling, swap etc it\'s an issue if you want 10 years from the machine.

The other point where I lost you, I was clumsily trying to say that 20GB would soon fill up, OS and apps would take a chunk, on the Z, all the Qtopia apps I could ever want, even X/Qt and GIMP all fit in the Internal flash with about 50% free (I keep docs etc on CF), therefore I\'d get more use from a 4GB Microdrive-fitted Z than one of them XP boxes.

When is the next episode of the Linux League coming?

May the Farce be with you too :-)

[Zazz]

If you continuously log one line of text every second to file on a flash storage device without wear levelling it will die in a matter of days (or hours if it\'s a s*nd*sk). Microdrives don\'t have this problem.

[Miami_Bob]

I just have a moral and ideological objection to anything Windows.

Without walls, nobody would need windows.

Without fences, nobody would need Gates.


I find it interesting that QDOS, which Gates & Co bought from Seattle Computing, was a blatent piracy of CPM-86. So blatent that Digital was even still included in parts of the code.

Gates has been a bully, a cheat and a liar from the very beginning. But I have no problem at all with people *using* Micro$oft products .... just so long as they don\'t PAY for them.

[Miami_Bob]

Besides -

\"Zaurus has competition from Windows?!?\"


Negatory, Rory.

Zaurus is *hardware*. Wind-Hozed is *software*.

LINUX has competition from Windows?!? IOTTMCO, amigo!


How many Linux programmers does it take to change a light bulb?

 As many as you want; they\'re all virtual anyhow.


How many OS/2 programmers does it take to change a light bulb?

 Its a device driver problem. Contact the manufactorer.


How many Wind-Hozed programmers does it take to change a light bulb?

 None. Its their new standard.
 Or maybe they\'ll change it in a future version. Who knows.


Someone once told me that the biggest problem with Micro$oft was their address.

 One Micro$oft Way.