Author Topic: WARNING! Don\'t buy SD Audio Players!!  (Read 6191 times)

nevarrie

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« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2004, 03:37:29 pm »
Quote
Thanks!

I\'m preparing myself to make the switch to Linux on, or before, that time arives.

But... does Linux enforce DRM?  Will Linux have \"loads of that drm crap\" on it too? ...or is Linux commited to OpenSource and Copyright reform?


Even if someone would put the DRM stuff into a linux distribution you could just take it out of the source if you wanted and recompile without.   Though from everythign I have heard no one plans on adding it to the main kernel branch.  The individual distributions like Red Hat, Suse, Linspire or any of the others could do it on their own.  For me if a distribution decides to enforce DRM then I will find one that does not.  Now to just hope the goverment does not make it so that all software enforce the DRM.
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nevarrie

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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2004, 03:38:35 pm »
Damn...my sig did nto come out the way I wanted...back tot he drawing board...
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Cresho

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« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2004, 03:49:32 pm »
DRM on the linux platform is optional.  As long as companies do not enforce it, we are fine.

Though linus said its alright, he didnt say it should be in the linux platform.  I tried most os\'s and they work fine without drm.  So far, i have not read about anybody adding it to the platform.

Microsoft is lobbying for a way to manage or programs.

under DRM  to DMCA.  They want to lock down your pc so if you buy a product, in order to activate it, it must send a key to the microsoft server.  If the government legislation, etc accepts this.  this means we do not own the software and opensource will die!!!!  I just want to make everybody aware of this since a few of us don\'t realize how serious this is.

linux will be affected as we.

So far, at the moment, the law isnt available to be enforced.
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Cresho

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« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2004, 03:53:12 pm »
ohh damn i forgot to mention.  if that law does pass from dmca or drm, that means all pc hardware, handheld that comes to america will have a fritz chip and this is bad.

they call it \"Trusted Computing\"  and they are marketing it this way so stupid people will buy it.

here is a list from this website if you wanna read it and get pissed off    http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

. What is TC - this `trusted computing\' business?

The Trusted Computing Group (TCG) is an alliance of Microsoft, Intel, IBM, HP and AMD which promotes a standard for a `more secure\' PC. Their definition of `security\' is controversial; machines built according to their specification will be more trustworthy from the point of view of software vendors and the content industry, but will be less trustworthy from the point of view of their owners. In effect, the TCG specification will transfer the ultimate control of your PC from you to whoever wrote the software it happens to be running. (Yes, even more so than at present.)

The TCG project is known by a number of names. `Trusted computing\' was the original one, and is still used by IBM, while Microsoft calls it `trustworthy computing\' and the Free Software Foundation calls it `treacherous computing\'. Hereafter I\'ll just call it TC, which you can pronounce according to taste. Other names you may see include TCPA (TCG\'s name before it incorporated), Palladium (the old Microsoft name for the version due to ship in 2004) and NGSCB (the new Microsoft name). Intel has just started calling it `safer computing\'. Many observers believe that this confusion is deliberate - the promoters want to deflect attention from what TC actually does.

2. What does TC do, in ordinary English?

TC provides a computing platform on which you can\'t tamper with the application software, and where these applications can communicate securely with their authors and with each other. The original motivation was digital rights management (DRM): Disney will be able to sell you DVDs that will decrypt and run on a TC platform, but which you won\'t be able to copy. The music industry will be able to sell you music downloads that you won\'t be able to swap. They will be able to sell you CDs that you\'ll only be able to play three times, or only on your birthday. All sorts of new marketing possibilities will open up.

TC will also make it much harder for you to run unlicensed software. In the first version of TC, pirate software could be detected and deleted remotely. Since then, Microsoft has sometimes denied that it intended TC to do this, but at WEIS 2003 a senior Microsoft manager refused to deny that fighting piracy was a goal: `Helping people to run stolen software just isn\'t our aim in life\', he said. The mechanisms now proposed are more subtle, though. TC will protect application software registration mechanisms, so that unlicensed software will be locked out of the new ecology. Furthermore, TC apps will work better with other TC apps, so people will get less value from old non-TC apps (including pirate apps). Also, some TC apps may reject data from old apps whose serial numbers have been blacklisted. If Microsoft believes that your copy of Office is a pirate copy, and your local government moves to TC, then the documents you file with them may be unreadable. TC will also make it easier for people to rent software rather than buy it; and if you stop paying the rent, then not only does the software stop working but so may the files it created. So if you stop paying for upgrades to Media Player, you may lose access to all the songs you bought using it.

For years, Bill Gates has dreamed of finding a way to make the Chinese pay for software: TC looks like being the answer to his prayer.
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Cresho

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« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2004, 03:59:53 pm »
but it doesnt stop there.  opensource will need to be registered and if not, you cannot run the application.

let us say if you make a movie on your pc.  this is a movie that you made with your wife on a video.  with drm, the video will not render unless you are connected online and it sends information to microsoft to determine if your making a legal video.  if it passes a test, then it will give you permission to do so.

let say you have word.  you own a copy but if you dont pay the rental fee of your word program, you wont be able to run the program next year.

open office can open word documents but if they enforce the law, open office will suffer the same fate.

and it gets worse

anyway, i hope i enlightened you
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grey_moon

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« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2004, 04:16:41 pm »
u should try to not get the physical media confused with the electronic content, for example with DVDs the content is a protected format, but the disk itself can be used to store a non protected content. which is bascially what cresho said.  but do we need to avoid protected formats?  those of u watching DVDs on your PC without a licensed player are not avoiding a protected format, but are bypassing any DRM.  With encoded formats with built in DRM all you need is a knobbled codec, or a player with the mechanism crippled.  there will always be someone who will break any \"DRM\" mechanism, hardware or software based... given enough time and incentive, I\'ve always thought there are 3 main incentives, \"want to show the world how great they are\", \"want to annoy the big \'capitalist\' corps\" and the good ol\' \"want to make a quick buck\"...
On the point about dodgy players, who here actually trusts that mediaplayer 9, realplayer doesn\'t send info or what u are watching to big brother?  media player classic and bsplayer all the way for me pls...
On the issue of DRM I personally feel there is nothing wrong with it as long as its implemented in the right way, for instance those audio CDs which only work in certain devices (and not advertised as such, but so easy to get around) certainly is the wrong way
enforcing DR... the RIAA - how wrong can they be way, but iTunes is a step in the right direction!
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grey_moon

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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2004, 04:22:33 pm »
snigger took them long enough to squeeze the DVD royalties from china and what did they do? they come up with the evd format...
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grey_moon

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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2004, 04:25:27 pm »
oh and to bypass the online decoding mechanism all u need is one person to pay, rip it and release it. already been happening for years, not that I agree with it (for the benefit of any enforcement officer wanting to skin a monkey...)
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slocaus

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« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2004, 12:35:18 am »
Keep in mind that \"SD\" stands for Secure Digital and that is precisely WHY they were developed, to enforce \"copy protection schemes\" with portable music players high on the list.
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sefthuko

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« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2004, 01:53:17 am »
I have yet to see anything on Linux that supports DRM.  In order to support DRM, you need to sign a pricy license agreement/NDA of some sort, which isn\'t all that great for Linux programmers.  DRM code is always closed source; if the DRM code was open, then people could easily hack their way around the encryption, and it\'d be useless.  That\'s also why SD cards are a closed format and there are no open source drivers supporting it (that I know of).

slocaus

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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2004, 02:29:37 am »
Well, Hymn http://hymn-project.org/ supports DRM, but in the reverse way, exactly as you state.  And it does not have to be Open Source for people to find out how to exercise their rights with the software and hardware.  
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grey_moon

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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2004, 03:03:17 am »
magic gate was \"developed, to enforce \"copy protection schemes\" with portable music players high on the list.\" but it doesn\'t work if I refuse to use sony\'s format and their current devices play mp3s and eq i use doesnt use the mg functionality then all mg means is i pay a little extra for my media.  end of the day for CE products its the consumer that counts if a product is so restrictive then people tend to not buy the product.  this knee jerk reaction to drm is the same as riaa knee jerk reaction to p2p.  
\" DRM code is always closed source; if the DRM code was open, then people could easily hack their way around the encryption, and it\'d be useless.\" - you wanna give schneider and all of the other open source crypto gurus a lesson here? i do believe twofish came 2nd place in the AES competition...
dvd is closed source all that was needed for that to be broken was some person to \"accidently\" publish the keys on their web site...
closed source argument about security to me equals ostrich head in the sand technique...
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tumnus

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« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2004, 03:27:59 am »
My understanding is that there is copy protection and encryption support builtin to the SD card spec. While the Zaurus sees an SD card like a MMC card, if a SD card has any of the copy protection/encryption turned on I\'m guessing you will most likely not be able to access the content of the card. This probably also goes for a PC SD card reader.

Otherwise the DRM stuff would be far too easy to get around if you could just put the protected SD card in something like a Zaurus and copy the files.

So yes, DRM is bad since it could easily stop you doing legitimate things, but I also think copyright infringment is bad too. If you want to boycott something like a record company, don\'t listen to their music, period. It won\'t hurt you  .
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grey_moon

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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2004, 04:08:25 am »
Another example is DVD regioning, which is part of the industry standard, what most people do is buy a region free player, bye bye restrictions
To produce a working DRM system is a very hard thing, because u don\'t want to scare away the consumer with the copyright protection mechanism (protect your content, but can\'t sell it, is more worthless then unprotected content, since at least the unprotected stuff is getting public exposure), althro I can\'t understand RIAA\'s methods at all...
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sefthuko

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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2004, 04:24:51 am »
\"Hacking their way around the encryption\" means extracting both the keys and the algorithm from the DRM code.  Yes, you\'re right: no matter if they close source it or open source it, people will eventually get at it.  But if you don\'t even know what algorithm is being used, you\'ve just made it that much harder for people to circumvent.

Take a look at WMA: it uses ECC, DES, RC4, SHA-1, etc etc.  It\'s not just the keys.  It\'s what they\'re used for.