Thanks to anyone brave enough to answer this.

[BD iiiiii]

Bob

Many kernels of wisdom in all that you say. (pun just appeared, honest)

THANKS Uncle Bob!!

Remember all the neat things we could do on the original TRS-80 - with 4K of memory!

[Fraggy]

VNC certainly works well, but rdesktop also works and requires no (extra) software on your XP machine - it used the remote desktop spftware which is built in.

True, but the very big advantage of VNC is that you don't need any extra software for the CLIENT: you just need a java enabled web browser, then enter the adress http://remotecomputer_ip_adress:5800 and voila! You have remote control over the machine in your netscape / IE / Whatever java browser you wish  

This means you can access your remote machine from any place in the world by just entering a cybercafe! No need to install software  (now that's what we call a really thin client, haha.)

[bluedevils]

I do not feel the definition of ROM has been accurately stated.  As far as I can tell, a ROM is an image/bundle of the OS.  The part that I don't think is conveyed too well is that you can have the sharp rom and then you can have roms that are just variations of the sharp rom (tkc and cacko).  I'd recommend one of those roms because they are improved upon the original sharp rom (stability, features and looks/feel).  My sister does not know anything about linux and yet she is having a blast with the 5500 (tkc v1).

OpenZaurus *is* different from the original sharp rom as it was developed independently, but there is some compatibility between them.  I would say that the diff between OZ and the sharp rom is closer to the diff between win95 and NT analogy.

[Fraggy]

To come back on the subject of experimenting with Linux on a PC first, without the need to mess around with multiple partitions and stuff like that, VPC and VMWare are indeed 2 nice "emulators" which allow you to experiment without "breaking" anything. I would definately advise VMWare or VPC, but I recently found another solution that I really liked: the DemoLinuxCD: http://www.demolinux.org

This is a distribution with a Live File system that runs entirely from CD-Rom!!! No need to install, just put in the CD, boot and that's it!!!!! Of course performance is sub-optimal (but very acceptable!), because CD-Rom access is pretty slow, but it has all the stuff you need (it supports LAN/Internet, netscape, windows manager (kde, gnome or wvm), and a lots of apps...) except you can't install new apps or modify configs.

DemoLinux does offers the possibility to use some temporary space on your HDD (100Mb) to speed up performance, store swap and config files, so in a limited way it does allow you to "fool around" a bit and at least to save your settings. But surely it will give you a nice first impression of Linux, without having to install anything!!!!!!!
(also if you would install Redhat Linux 9 or Debian 3 for the first time you may be overwhelmed with the HUGE number of applications you may choose from!!!! DemoLinux comes preconfigured with a wide number of applications, including Star Office to keep in touch with the non-linux world (like Open Office, this Office suite is compatible with M$ word, Excell, etc..)

For me this is great, because new distributions were too bloaty for my Toshiba 233Mhz 96Mb laptop with 5Mb HD space and this distro runs just fine (as a matter of fact I've got a slightly adapted distro for Zaurus development!!!). Cool!
And given the fact that I don't have the time to find out how to finetune a distro to "unbloat" it (I'm not a newby, but certainly not a veteran), this bootable distro came as a present from heaven for me

[padishah_emperor]

Knoppix would be a good one to try too.  A friend is using a Knoppix CD to run Linux and experiment and his 5500 to store the documents on, it can act like a USB drive with a little 'USB Storage' app which was backported from the 860, it's probably here on ZUG.  Also you can use Knoppix (as I did) to install a full Debian on your hard drive one day, if you want.

[BD iiiiii]

Fraggy.

To come back on the subject of experimenting with Linux on a PC first, without the need to mess around with multiple partitions and stuff like that, VPC and VMWare are indeed 2 nice "emulators" which allow you to experiment without "breaking" anything. I would definately advise VMWare or VPC, but I recently found another solution that I really liked: the DemoLinuxCD: http://www.demolinux.org

Thanks. That is a lot of info, so I'll take some time to chew on it. (even more challenging is what padishah_emperor says - way above my head I'm afraid.)

, but the very big advantage of VNC is that you don't need any extra software for the CLIENT: you just need a java enabled web browser, then enter the adress http://remotecomputer_ip_adress:5800 and voila! You have remote control over the machine in your netscape / IE / Whatever java browser you wish

You've really got me psyched about this one. I would like to hear/learn more. Do you have any recommendations for sites/more details, or would you mind posting anything here?

I definitely like the idea of utilizing the built in Windows RDC (since all my home PCs use that extensively). On the other hand, the notion of not having to load anything extra onto the client (as you said) is even more appealing.

From wish-list to possibility  . wow!

p.s. I had originally played down the idea of accessing a PC from a Z. This forum seemed to have some really die hard Linux people and I didn't want to get on their nerves asking to use my Z just to get to a Win screen - hehe. I guess there's more ac-dc's here than I thought. Actually, I'm starting to get the Linux bug already, and I havn't even gotten my Z yet! See ya.

[padishah_emperor]

even more challenging is what padishah_emperor says - way above my head I'm afraid

     

You'll get there, if you want to make the effort, and you're doing it now by asking these questions, you'll find lots of help and support from us, in time, you can learn all this stuff - it's all good, take your time, ask questions, use us as a sounding board or to even rant, play and enjoy the process. A year from now, you'll know more than you do today and enrich yourself in the process.

Take care..
-Francis

[Fraggy]

You've really got me psyched about this one. I would like to hear/learn more. Do you have any recommendations for sites/more details, or would you mind posting anything here?

I definitely like the idea of utilizing the built in Windows RDC (since all my home PCs use that extensively). On the other hand, the notion of not having to load anything extra onto the client (as you said) is even more appealing.

You're not the only one who wants to achieve that kind of stuff, it's actually quite common for network administrators, especially in MIXED network environments.

VNC: http://www.realvnc.com/ (NB: I believe you even have commercial "clones" of VNC that support both the VNC as well as the RDC protocol, but for that you need to look elsewhere (just google around!)).

BTW: I can imagine you were a bit affraid to get flamed for this (this being a Linux place), but many of us (if not all) are still connected to the windows world.

Open Source is, first of all, a place of freedom! If you really like Micro$oft, then you are free to do so, although in general this is due to the fact of a lack of experience and knowledge of alternatives  (because once you realise the diversity, abundancy and quality that the non-microsoft world has to offer, you start to wonder why the heck people are still using M$ appz and even depend (!) on them...)

I've been "nursed" in an academic environment: where software developers were working in a mixed environment, where Linux, Unix, JavaOS and many other exotic OSses were living together in peace with Windows (95/98/NT)... Ahum... That is to say: all exotic and non-Micro$oft systems were living in peace together, but Micro$oft was always a troublemaker, breaking the rules, breaching security and bending the standards (Micro$oft Java, Micro$oft Kerberus, Micro$oft HTML? Having to send your CV as a MS Word *.doc? Puke!!!!)... (And I'm not even touching the "buggy" part).
So you can immagine that even in a very tolerant world irritation grows (as a matter of fact, in places where tolerance rules, intolerance is not appreciated and even fiercely hated!).

Micro$oft does not want a free world. If you do not want to live in a free world, we respect that choice, but we hate it when the lack of freedom is pushed onto us... Luckily the world is now quickly changing, but lemme just say this before "antibashers" shout at me: "but you do have a choice!" well this is not entirely true, because MONEY MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND! Companies with a lot of money are powerfull enough to bend the law and can easily manipulate public opinions by repeating lies so many times that (unknowing) people start to believe them: I have my own Webdesign company, and I have nothing against Windows Server + IIS + ASP + MS SQL but it's sometimes amazing how hard it is to convince a client that Linux + Apache + PHP and PostgreSQL are not only cheaper but also are better.

Dictators know that the first thing they must control is the press, ruling out the dicidents by either shutting them up, or just shouting much louder... M$ still successfully applies that strategy, except that the small voice of the dissidents is growing louder, slowly but surely...

But eh, sorry I get a bit carried away, hehe, we don't want to start a M$ bashing thread here.
It's just that I hate M$'ses untolerance and greed for power so much, that's all, and yet there's stuff I do like about Windoze, especially as a game platform it kicks arse  and DOS still rulez for abandonwarez (retro gaming )

But eh... with some nice tools you can still run M$ Software on an otherwise 100% Linux machine: with VMWare you can run all full blown Windoze versions on your Linux as a very well performing virtual machine. From good old DOS to even WinXP Enterprise Server with Clustering!!!!! (VMware also allows more exotic OSses to be run in a virtual machine, like Sco Unix, BeOS (basically any OS that runs on an Intel CPU...). You can even run more than one virtual machine at the same time on the same PC!
And there is WINE that runs Windows progs under Linux and XWine that runs Windows programs that depend on DirectX technology (3D accelerated games, for example)...

So you can see that Linux is pretty open minded  and pretty limitless in possibilities and that's where it gets confusing  You'll feel lost (which was your first "complaint"), but again: don't worry in time you'll get more secure. By using VMWare (http://www.vmware.com/), you'll have "best of both worlds" until you are ready to dump your copy of Windows that came with your PC into the waste basket   (I'm even authoring Macromedia Director CDs under VMWare!!!), but perhaps I sould try to run it under WINE? lol. (ahum, still need your copy of windows though, to install it in the virtual machine).

Edit: to avoid confusion I'll add the following:
VMWare for Windows (NT/2000/XP) (does not run under Win95/98!!!!) is allows you to run Linux (and other OSses) on a windows machine
VMWare for Linux allows you to run Windows (and other OSses) on a Linux Machine.

VPC for Windows does the same, but also works on Win98 and there is a VPC for Mac! VPC is more suited for gaming because it emulates a directdraw capable videocard. It also uses CPU cycles even when the virtual machine is idle, whereas VMWare is less resource hungry, but emulates a simple vesa videocard... In my opinion VMWare is better suited for "serious work" and VPC for gaming  or video intensive appz.

[Fraggy]

except you can't install new apps or modify configs.

About DemoLinux, a little correction: it DOES allow you to install new programs, although the space is limited (hopefully in future releases you can choose to reserve more HDD space for that), because right now it uses only 100Mb of your HD space...

NB: as always with Linux: it runs (way) behind with drivers. So if you have extremely new hardware (the latest new gadgets), then some hardware may not be recognized.

This was the case with my onboard network card (I have a ASUS A7N8X motherboard).

Yeah, heard about Knoppix. I'm curious about the knoppix distro, but I don't have much time to experiment with that kinda stuff now... But I'll take a look at it.

BTW: an interesting note on DemoLinux is that they compressed over 1 Gb of applications on a 650Mb CD!!!! It is decompressed on the fly!!!! Wow!

I hope to see more "Live" distros (running from CD) in the future!

[ScottYelich]

what's wrong with a MS bashing thread? :->  too easy? done before? oh well.

Yes, you can run vmware.  Personally, I thought that virtual pc kicked vmware's
core... after 9/11, I had an old NT box that was not on the work domain, at work, as
it was a console to a honkin' old alpha box... so, I loaded up virtual pc and ran my
freebsd on it.  alt-return to go full screen, and I had unix (root!) and no windows worries.
It anyone needed the console, they knew to hit alt-rturn and then click on the icon
they needed.  Last time I checked, my virtual desktop had been up some 200 days
or so.

vmware, to me, seems buggy, slow... annoying.  Yet, now that ms bought
connectix, I refuse to use it -- but, alas, I hear it will be "integrated" with the OS.
*sigh*

Yes, knoppix is ok... but it's also confusing.  I highly recomment using a usb memory
stick, etc... otherwise, knoppix is little more than a demo.

http://www.frozentech.com/content/livecd.php

google for "list of linux live cds" ... first link (almost every time).

The power of unix is that applications conform to your system, your system is
not forced to conform to the next application that you install.  ie: no dll hell.
pc people always say "bah, wah! I hate unix, you have to compile"
ah, bah, wah, they don't understand the power that that provides... the stability.

So, yes, it's about freedom and choice.  As long as I have a CHOICE, I do
choose.  What I do not like is when ms thinks that they have to be the only
os in the world and they try to legislate or make it illegal to not run their shit.
or when you're forced to pay an ms tax... whether when purchasing a machine
or going to a university, etc.

people who use ms and think its the best thing there is, either do not know
better, or are just not that bright. period.  I am not saying os is better (in all
cases) -- a lot of it is total sh1t (and abandonware) ... but it's about freedom.

Try to put a title bar off the top of the screen in 'blows... something as simple
as that.

Now, granted, I am a programmer... so I get severly irked when I see the stupid
sh!t that ms does and refuses to address.  At least with unix, if it pisses me off
enough, I can fiddle with it.  It shouldn't have to be only a choice between these
two, but so far, that's all we have.

So, to get back on topic -- the PDA is linux... and if you never run the terminal
and get to a command line -- you just might not know it's linux other than
you can't load palmos or wince crap on it.  On the otherhand, take a look at my
pda: http://zaurus.spy.org/screenshots/scottyelich/pdaXrom/jpg/ -- I can do just
about anything that I can do on my desktop on the PDA.  Yes, granted, I'm not
talking about quakeIII or 1024x768 200FPS... I'm talking about surf, read mail,
program, compile, listen to music... and -- the interface is 100% the same!

I learned emacs style keys in the late 80s, and I can use those same keys
today!  I learned shell scripting -- and it's valid today...  I can actually build on
technology and not worry about (1) product names instead of tech [ie:
active directory instead of ldap and (2) what "embrace and extend" bullsh!t
the company who I'm forced to use has slipped into what I am forced to use
that will break my stuff from the standards that have been set.

A computer is a tool... it should be used as one.  You should control it --
it should NOT control you.  The next time you're forced to only have one
choice and do it only one way -- think about that.

Scott

[Fraggy]

Yeah, bashing on M$ is getting old & boring  (even though they more than diserve it.)

Yes, granted, I'm not
talking about quakeIII or 1024x768 200FPS...

Not yet, but heed my word that it is only a matter of time before this happens.
DOOM runs on the Zaurus, Quake 1 runs on it too although slowly... If the engine would be totally rewritten for the Zaurus it would probably run just fine, so there's the power of our freedom!!!!!

I agree it's a tool, but tools get more powerfull each time. Playing Quake is not an "application", but using a Quake engine together with a GPS system in a mobile device might open a whole new world of applications...

So for me, the Zaurus will not only be "just a tool" (of course I will use it's organizer's functionality!) but for me it will also be a "window" to new technologies....  

[Fraggy]

Yes, you can run vmware. Personally, I thought that virtual pc kicked vmware's core...

Possibly VPC performs much better and is less buggy than VMWare, I dunno... I just don't have much experience with VPC. I played around with VPC a bit with it and I liked it very much, but VPC does not run under Linux

I guess the disadvantage of VMWare would be that it does not run on a Mac?

[Miami_Bob]

what's wrong with a MS bashing thread? :->  too easy? done before? oh well.

LOL

Thanks, Scott. I needed that!

[Miami_Bob]

I notice that the ORIGINAL poster has become very quiet. Perhaps this subject has gotten a bit *technical*, folks? (G)

Don't let 'em intimidate you, BD iiiiii! They don't really MEAN to, they just get carried away (G).

TRS-80? Man, I remember running to the local 7-11 with a box of tubes to use their test station in hopes of getting the d*#$% TV working before game time! (G)

You once upon a time could actually buy quite a nice selection of TUBES at the 7-11s here!!


(G)

[Twisk]

(from Uncle Bob)
TRS-80? Man, I remember running to the local 7-11 with a box of tubes to use their test station in hopes of getting the d*#$% TV working before game time!

You once upon a time could actually buy quite a nice selection of TUBES at the 7-11s here!! (G)

Yeah baby! Standing in front of that big ol' board with its array of different pin hole configurations, and the neat "techie" instructions and labels. Why, it almost took my attention away from the Playboy magazine rack over in the other corner!! ;-) , hey, I said almost.

Don't let 'em intimidate you, BD iiiiii! They don't really MEAN to, they just get carried away (G)

Well, as a matter of fact, I was a little intimidated by the overwhelming contribributions showing up here. I decided to fade back and watch the pros go at it for a while. Very impressive - and I must say, I am learning a lot from the discourse.

Thanks to ALL contributers. Keep it up, please!

Twisk (formerly- BD iiiiii)