Author Topic: Video Player Success stories  (Read 15974 times)

tricuspa

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« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2004, 05:22:15 pm »
I am running 3.10 what I determined was that complicated/large decryption uses too much of the processor (MPEG2) slowing the video down making it seems like it freezes.

What I had success with was converting the video to MPEG1 and doing half sized screen, while using a Lexmark 4x CF Card for video.  It seems to run fairly smoothly for two minute length videos.  I am waiting til I get a GB CF card to see if I can pull off 40 or so minutes.

The problem with an SD Card is the default player doesn't stream/hold enough data ahead of time so you get skips.

Anyway hope this helps.

slapout

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« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2004, 11:56:55 am »
On top of that, VLC on the Zaurus may not be everyone's cup of tea, since it does not provide a real Qtopia user interface, i.e. can only be used from the command line.

Does it run under a terminal inside of Qtopia? If so, then maybe someone could code a frontend for it.
SL-5600
Watapon 1.2 Rom

porovaara

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« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2004, 08:49:22 am »
If you still need space to host your binaries let me know, plenty of space and decent upstream with (nearly) unlimited bandwidth. Plus it would be on a cool domain, nsa.org.

chrget

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« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2004, 10:41:03 am »
Quote
Does it run under a terminal inside of Qtopia? If so, then maybe someone could code a frontend for it.
It can indeed be run from a Qtopia terminal, either using the QT/E video output module as well as using the FBDEV video output module.

Now, an external frontend -- that would be plain silly, given the fact that VLC is highly modular and already provides QT/E code for video output. An experienced QT/E resp. Qtopia coder could probably create some sort of acceptable GUI based on the (currently outdated and obsolete) QT interface plugin within a fairly short amount of time.

Quote
I determined was that complicated/large decryption uses too much of the processor (MPEG2) slowing the video down making it seems like it freezes.

Obviously a 206 MHz StrongARM (or comparable XScale) is hard pressed doing any kind of A/V playback without any supporting specialist hardware. But the results are quite good, given the encoding parameters are kept within certain constraints.

Apart from that, I still haven't had time to put the binary up someplace (things are kinda busy at the moment).

porovaara, how about I mail it to you and you put it up? Might that be a viable option?

Best regards,
Chris.
SL-5500G running a modified 3.13 Sharp ROM
Extrememory 1GB SD / Netgear MA701 WLAN
Audiovox RTM-8000 GSM/GPRS CF Card

porovaara

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« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2004, 11:35:35 pm »
The file can be downloaded from here:

http://nsa.org/zaurus/vlc/

thanks to chrget.

chrget

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« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2004, 10:21:45 am »
Quote
The file can be downloaded from here:

http://nsa.org/zaurus/vlc/

thanks to chrget.
Heh, no, actually thanks to you, porovaara  

Best regards,
Chris.
SL-5500G running a modified 3.13 Sharp ROM
Extrememory 1GB SD / Netgear MA701 WLAN
Audiovox RTM-8000 GSM/GPRS CF Card

chrget

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« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2005, 01:30:06 am »
Just a quick note in case anyone is interested: I built an updated version of the static VLC binary (VLC 0.8.2-SVN 10117, including updates to various libraries used in the build process as well as some additional functionality [namely RTSP]).

If there is interest, let me know and I'll see that I'll make it available to you.

Best regards,
Chris.
SL-5500G running a modified 3.13 Sharp ROM
Extrememory 1GB SD / Netgear MA701 WLAN
Audiovox RTM-8000 GSM/GPRS CF Card

dreadlocks

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« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2005, 01:41:53 am »
ive been able to compress movies down to 1.8Mb a min and play them back smoothly on my 5600, quality is quite good.. im still tweaking some things, but I'll post some final results soon.. but currently I can rip an entire DVD onto a 256MB (w/room to spare) card with good quality and playback. I am using mplayer to play them with Kino2 as a frontend.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2005, 01:45:55 am by dreadlocks »
RETIRED - Zaurus SL-5600 (and a dead 5000D)
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padishah_emperor

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« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2005, 06:41:54 am »
Just to answer the original question, I had perfect playback on tkcVideo, smooth, fluid movement, using MPEG-1 @ 160x120 (half it's res full screen - looks like pocket TV) 25fps 128kbit, MPEG-1 layer II audio 22,050Hz, mono. 96kbit. Been a long time so I'm working from memory here, but a whole movie fit snugly on a 128MB CF.  I was really impressed with the results using tkcPlayer and tkcVideo on the 5500, worth the money.  In fact I still have the binaries and since I no longer need or use them I'll transfer ownership to you or anyone who wants them I'm sure I can do that if I recall.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2005, 08:11:49 am by padishah_emperor »
Left Linux and Linux PDAs... sorry, got boring.  Switched to Mac.

grog

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« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2005, 09:12:16 am »
Quote
ive been able to compress movies down to 1.8Mb a min and play them back smoothly on my 5600, quality is quite good.. im still tweaking some things, but I'll post some final results soon.. but currently I can rip an entire DVD onto a 256MB (w/room to spare) card with good quality and playback. I am using mplayer to play them with Kino2 as a frontend.[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=70439\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I for one really look forward to the details. I'd love to get some movies onto my Z for a trip we're planning this summer.
GROG!

dreadlocks

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« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2005, 04:09:07 am »
here is a sneak peak, my only request is you give me feedback so I can develop this further.
http://www.nayr.net/zaurus/

sent you a pm padishah_emperor
-nayr
« Last Edit: March 14, 2005, 04:18:14 am by dreadlocks »
RETIRED - Zaurus SL-5600 (and a dead 5000D)
Wapaton 1.6.1 - Personal Watapon Feed
SMC 2642W & Linksys WCF12, Targus Universal IR Keyboard
Sandisk 512mb SD, Lexar 64mb SD, Sharp Camera
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ev1l

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« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2005, 11:39:13 am »
Quote
here is a sneak peak, my only request is you give me feedback so I can develop this further.
You should specify this is a Linux tutorial. On windows you can just use PocketDivXEncoder.

padishah_emperor

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« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2005, 05:57:09 pm »
Quote
In fact I still have the binaries and since I no longer need or use them I'll transfer ownership to you or anyone who wants them I'm sure I can do that if I recall.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=70450\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Quote
sent you a pm padishah_emperor
-nayr
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=70564\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I have now transferred ownership of those apps as agreed. Good luck with your project.

-Francis
« Last Edit: March 14, 2005, 05:58:46 pm by padishah_emperor »
Left Linux and Linux PDAs... sorry, got boring.  Switched to Mac.

chrget

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« Reply #28 on: March 15, 2005, 06:33:54 am »
(Written offline, then pasted here for matters of sanity -- mine, that is  )

Even on the chance I'm going to be the party pooper here, I'll throw in that the original topic of this thread was video playback on the Zaurus SL-5500, and, even "worse", on an "old" Sharp ROM (i.e. 2.38).

It's all nice and dandy when people come along and tell you how great their newly built MPlayer w/Kino performs on their SL-5600/C-XXX or whatever, simply because they are either unaware of or do not care about the fact that no, not all Zauri are created equal -- and since recent MPlayer builds are optimized using XScale instructions, they will simply produce a nice, clean Illegal Instruction error when run on the 5500's SA-1100 processor.

It would be nice if people kept that in mind before making the usual blanket statements that 'it works just great with MPlayer' ...

That said, a few more minor things towards the topic at hand:

dreadlocks, it's not nice to completely ignore the rest of this thread and not mention VLC as an option for Zaurus video playback on your tutorial website -- maybe you should add it as well  (hint, hint).

As for video encoding, well -- I for one don't use AVI as a container, since it was devised by the Evil Empire ™  -- I personally prefer ISO standards with regard to that, so I build my video usually within an MP4 container (yeah yeah, I know, I'm a smartass). If done carefully enough, you can even produce files that will not only play pack on your Z, but on a 3GPP-capable mobile phone as well.

Granted, that certainly isn't for everybody, since it takes a whole zoo full of installed software, also depending on the codecs you intend to use. But I digress.

A few general points I can add, though, based on my own observations (note that these are rather VLC-centric, so YMMV and all are, of course, IM(NS)HO):

When it comes to audio, anything beyond 32 kHz sampling rate really is overkill for use on a mobile device -- resampling audio down to an appropriate rate will usually help playback a great deal. In addition, reducing the number of channels will help as well -- let's be honest: do you really need stereo sound for that episode of Gilmore Girls or that newscast when you're on the road?

Codecwise, my experience is that MPEG-1 Layer II uses the least, HE AAC the most CPU cycles on playback. Vorbis uses somewhat to quite a bit more than MPEG-1 Layer III, but for all of them, the common rule is: the lower the sampling rate and the lower the bitrate, the lower the CPU consumption. My personal favorites are AAC LC in stereo at 24 kHz w/32 kBit/s and, if I feel really nasty, HE AAC in mono at 32 kHz w/12 kBit/s.

On video: basically, similar rules apply. For one thing, frame rate reduction is your best friend. You should, however use an integer divisor whenever possible -- otherwise the video will seem jerky in sequences that have uniform large-scale movement, i.e. zooms or pans. This of course is simple enough for film or PAL sources, where a simple division by 2 yields a nice 12 or 12.5 fps. No problem with 30 fps NTSC sources as well -- unfortunately, modern day NTSC uses 29.97 fps, i.e. 3000:1001. You may want to keep that in mind when doing conversions of NTSC material.

Obviously, size does matter as well (but we all knew that, didn't we?  ) -- while QVGA (320x240) resolution is a Nice Thing, it may not always be called for. If you want really small file sizes, QCIF (176x144) may be the thing for you. It gives a fairly acceptable result and currently is on of the favoured resolutions for mobile applications (e.g. 3GPP phones). Granted, you won't be able to read fine print, but there is lots of material that doesn't need the extra resolution provided by QVGA. Of course other resolutions are acceptable as well (240x180 or 160x120), but keep in mind that some codecs may not like them (e.g. H.264/AVC wants something that is divisible by 16).

Again, regarding codecs, similar principles are at work as are with audio. H.264/AVC uses the most CPU cycles on decode, with Theora in second place, followed by Simple MPEG-4 / H.263(+), with MPEG-2 and MPEG-1 using the least. In all cases, B-frames will cause additional load, so avoid them whenever you can. Less bitrate and/or quality on encoding will result in lower CPU consumption on playback independent of the codec used as well. Oh, and one major thing that, of course goes for all digital video: you need a clean source. Noisy images will drive up the data rate excessively and cause loads of really ugly artifacts that you want to avoid at all cost.

My personal favourites here are QVGA 12.5 fps Simple MPEG-4, VBR capped to a 320 kBit/s maximum for material that needs the resolution or that is 'important' to me and QCIF 12.5 fps H.264/AVC VBR with a  28-30 or so quality setting, usually with no maximum bitrate. If a source is really getting out of bounds, I add a cap of, say 112 or so kBit/s. But that rarely happens.

On closing, I'll revisit containers for a moment, since they're also involved when it comes to performance. Seems that MPEG PES and MPEG TS cause the least overhead, followed by AVI and, last but by no means least, MP4. Of course compared to the exorbitant amount of CPU cycles gobbled up by video and audio codecs, this practically is a non-issue. Just thought I'd throw that in for completeness' sake, and to give a good excuse to those using AVI instead of a certified ISO standard

Now comes the hard part: based on the above principles, everyone has to make up their own mind as to what is important for them and make the appropriate choices to achieve the desired result. For me, it boiled down to two combinations of the abovementioned favourites:

1) Simple MPEG-4 @ 320x240 @ 12.5 fps max. 320 kBps Video w/ 2ch 24 kHz AAC LC @ 32 kBps Audio
   
2) H.264/AVC @ 176x144 @ 12.5 fps w/ 1ch 32 kHz HE AAC @ 12 kBps Audio
   
and occasionally I will build files that are

3) H.263+ @ 176x144 @ 12.5 fps w/ 1ch 8 kHz AMR @ 12 kBps Audio
   
or the like if it should be playable on a current generation 3GPP mobile phone.

Rarely I do build OGG files containing Theora/Vorbis at similar parameters, but, to be honest, usually just for testing purposes. While I think it is important to have completely free alternative for A/V content on computers, I just don't feel that Theora is an accepted standard yet like Vorbis already is. Then again it's still in beta, so I probably shouldn't be surprised.

Still with me? Wow, you really must be patient

Anyway, should any of this be of any interest to you, dreadlocks, feel free to use it for your tutorial. If so, glad I could be of help.

As for my original intention in reviving this old thread, I decided to put up the updated VLC binary for those who dare

Just repeating that in case it got lost with all the discussion going on ...

Best regards,
Chris
SL-5500G running a modified 3.13 Sharp ROM
Extrememory 1GB SD / Netgear MA701 WLAN
Audiovox RTM-8000 GSM/GPRS CF Card

dreadlocks

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« Reply #29 on: March 15, 2005, 04:15:04 pm »
excellent post chris, this will help me alot..
I understand not all Zaurus are not created equal, my old 5000D is currently doing nothing more than being my wireless access point, but thanks to you I should have enough information to cover various quality settings so even you guys with the 5500's can enjoy mobile video.

I wasent ignoring VLC, its just I hadent had a chance to use it yet so I hadent commented.. i'll add it to my todo.

im working on it on my spare time, my goal is for people to be able to create mobile media without having to dive head first into codecs and methodology like I had to do.
RETIRED - Zaurus SL-5600 (and a dead 5000D)
Wapaton 1.6.1 - Personal Watapon Feed
SMC 2642W & Linksys WCF12, Targus Universal IR Keyboard
Sandisk 512mb SD, Lexar 64mb SD, Sharp Camera
Extreme Limit Metal & Leather Suit