Sharp Leaves Pda Market In USA

[Timelord.]

To make it clear, I bought a SL-6000L for myself (with expansion) knowing full well sharp would not support the item.  It is a toy for me to play with, the company be damned.

Don't let the stupid stupid company screw up your play time with your geek toys.

[lek]

I am sorry to hear about Sharp, but I am not suprised.  I had a bad feeling from the start, when one of the Sharp reps pointed me to http://myzaurus.com which seems to focus on the earlier models.  When I pointed this out, I was told to go to http://www.zaurus.com/dev/ which (I was told) is supposed to be for the 6k users, but also leans on the earlier models.  Before I bought my 6kL I had planned to blow away the OS and load one of the Open Source OS's like http://www.openzaurus.org/oz_website/content/news.  I have not yet made the move, but I hope to soon.  I am very glad that I got my 6kL, though I wish the 6kW had been avaiable to me.
Cheers,
lek

[ganoe]

I've never seen the Sharp Zaurus advertised anywhere.  Most people don't know it exists.  It's not carried at CompUSA, Best Buy, OfficeMax, or Office Depot.

The SL-5500 was sold in at least Office Depot and Best Buy for probably a couple of years, I think also Circuit City and some other places as well.  It was in the weekly ads for some of these places on occasion as well.  My local Office Depot had some leftover Zaurus accessories up until a few months ago.

That said, the average person that shops those places is not going to buy a Zaurus.  Also, at that time, the software on the Zaurus was no where close to what it is today.

[gdog]

I'm a bit upset that Sharp has dropped the Z here in the US, but not nearly as miffed at them as I am for not supporting it in any measurable way prior to dropping it.  I've had mine for a few months now and have no major complaints about the machine, but it would have been nice if they could have supported it for a year or so (and I mean really supported it), so that the development community could have embraced it and created tools and apps that were native to it. The PIMs could be better, and it would be nice if there were more utilities as well, but with Sharp treating it like a niche product with no marketing and no access to replacement parts or accessories, it's no wonder that the buying public didn't embrace it. Hell, the buying public for the most part wasn't even aware of it!

I should be used to being left hanging by manufactures after having been left in the lurch by NEC, Phillips and HP for various devices I have bought from each of them. Very few manufacturers today have any sense of loyalty, or even accountability, and the lack of these is probably a common malady among companies that focus more on units sold, and the bottom line, than on the people who buy them (and the reasons they do buy them). That's the problem with having bean counters calling the shots I suppose.

At least those of us that bought them have stable, dependable systems that are the best mini-computers/PDAs available, imho.

Someday I'd like to own one of the smallest Sonys out there, or something else along the lines of the JVC Interlink, but those are Windows systems and that's a whole different ballgame. Be a perfect world if I could afford to buy one of them, and install Linux on it...

Cheers,

gdog

[akpoff]

I'm a bit upset that Sharp has dropped the Z here in the US, but not nearly as miffed at them as I am for not supporting it in any measurable way prior to dropping it.  I've had mine for a few months now and have no major complaints about the machine, but it would have been nice if they could have supported it for a year or so (and I mean really supported it), so that the development community could have embraced it and created tools and apps that were native to it. The PIMs could be better, and it would be nice if there were more utilities as well, but with Sharp treating it like a niche product with no marketing and no access to replacement parts or accessories, it's no wonder that the buying public didn't embrace it. Hell, the buying public for the most part wasn't even aware of it!

I'm not really surprised Sharp have stopped supporting the Zaurus (at least in the US).  Convergence is killing the pure-play PDA market in the US (and Europe).  Sony dropped out of the US market and so may Toshiba (as the rumors have it ).  Have you been in your local Best Buy, CompUSA, Circuit City, Office Depot, etc.?  The PDA line-up is anemic.  The Circuit City near my office has about 6 PDAs on display, 2 of which are discontinued Sony's, the others are various Palm and PPC models.  They all look "rode hard and put a way wet".  It's the same at all the other stores and has been that way most of the summer.  Unless we're on the cusp of a huge fall release of new PDAs I'd say we'll see the pure-play PDA market continue to shrink in the US.  Most everyone I know (myself included) want their phone to take on the duties of their PDA.  Why carry two devices?

There will still be a market for handhelds but I think they'll become more specialized -- think Fluke and Network General with their handheld packet sniffers.  There also be a market for general purpose PDAs but I'm thinking Tungsten E.  What'll be really interesting to watch is the "emerging" market for handheld computers like the OQO, FlipStart, Sony U50/U70 etc.  Man Sharp had a head start!  As big as the SL-6000 is just make it a bit wider, shoehorn in a hard drive a la iPod and voilà, pocket computer instead of "Personal Mobile Tool".  Too bad they bailed!  (Or did they -- Perhaps Sharp bailed on the PDA market.  Could we see a Sharp handheld computer sometime in the future, based on Linux but having some beefier hardware behind it?)

The main problem IMO is Sharp never really wanted this market.  I think their previous success in the Japanese market and the booming US PDA market made them think it was a bit of a slam dunk.  Problem is they created a device only a geek could love.  Look how big they are!  The SL-6000 is almost as big as the Newton 2100 and despite being based on Linux just couldn't bring home the bacon.  (Nothing has ever beat the Newton as a handheld computer -- the Zaurus is close but it was the little things.  Did you ever write on a Newton?  The screen had a slight roughness to it that made it feel like a high-grade cotton-bond paper under the stylus.)  You gotta want a Zaurus to be happy with one.

What probably drew most of us to the Zaurus is what drew us to 'nix-like operating systems -- individual tools that do one or a few things well (except of course emacs which tries to do everything and well enough).  How many on the boards have a cell phone, Zaurus and iPod (iRiver, Muvo, etc.)?  I've used my Z for listening to music -- ho hum.  I've tried to use my iPod as a contacts db -- !@#$% where's the iPod when I need a phone number?  And the phone -- Verizon just LAST MONTH got ONE bluetooth phone; I'm not waiting on them for any more convergence.  I've tried the thumb board on the Treo -- it stinks!  And the phones that are coming out in clamshell format are way oversized for a phone.  I said I want my phone to take on the duties of my PDA but NOT those of my Zaurus.  I want it to synchronize with my phone list and have a copy of my schedule.  But no way in the world do I plan to read ebooks on a 2.2" diagonal screen!  I find the screen on my Z a bit challenging at times.  I can't imagine trying to read or watch a movie for two hours on an airplane using a phone!  (Hmmm...you're not supposed to have your phone on during the flight anyways.)

So yeah, I'm annoyed with Sharp.  They hit the market guns a holstered in a shoot out against Palm and MS and failed (let's not even talk Apple and the Newton here).  The problem is they just didn't want it.  Look at MS -- man they wanted this market and so they iterated over the PocketPC platform for what the past 6 years and watched their market share grow -- at Palm's expense.  Now that's a company that wanted to be where it is.  Too bad they delivered an inferior product.

--Aaron

[suselinuxuser]

Has Sharp discontinued the sl 6000? I was not able to find it on Amazon.com.

[BarryW]

Right here

Zaurus SL-6000 Amazon



And it's going for $400!!

[metal9966]

I know this reply is a bit late, but...

I am still trying to decide which to buy, 6000 or a T5 + Palm SD WIFI card.
6000 is way cheaper than before on Amazon.com now, and T5 is $400.00

As a current palm user I have been reading and the palm platform has advanced quite far the last couple of years. (Software I mean, hardware still lagging behind) SMB mounts over WIFI, shoutcast streaming, native ms office editing, dvd watching, vnc, and the T5 now has internal flash drive (160 MB) are all now possible.

Of course the Z can do this plus much more, but from what I read on the boards here, you have to mess with it alot to get these things working correctly. I run SUSE 8.2 on my home box and love it, but config of new apps and such is still a pain, but works great once I got it running just right. Just dont know if I want to go through this with a PDA, Been using a Handspring Prism for a very long time.

What should I do? (need non-bais opinion, J/k)

palm T5 (or other palm os)
Or
SL-6000 (or 860, ect.)

(MS PDA's not an option)

Thanks.  

-metal9966

[cvmiller]

I know this reply is a bit late, but...

Yes, you _may_ have difficulty getting a SL-6000 (in the US) these days.

That said, it depends on what you want to do with the little machine. If you just want it to carry a copy of your desktop info (ie. sync-ing) Get the PalmOS device.

If you want a standalone kick-ass little computer to do things like run a web server, VNC, ssh and so forth, then consider the Zaurus.

I hope this helps,

Craig...

[el_borak]

Yes, you _may_ have difficulty getting a SL-6000 (in the US) these days.

Why do you say that?  Amazon still shows as having stock.

[metal9966]

I think cvmiller is right, I think they are offloading the remaining 6000's on amazon.com, thats why its so cheap compaired to earlier pricing. Thats why I need to decide now!

I think my real question is:
1. How much time is spent trying to config, compaired to using with good relability? I like to play with things, and as I am a linux newbie, I have found out that it is sometimes difficult to get things right. I keep messing with my Linux box at home for fun, and have now set up a Rock hard stable Linux server at work in place of using an old Win 98 box as a server. (restarted win every week, Linux is so, so, much better), I am just not sure that I want that in a PDA.

2. Programming. I have read alot of threads conscerning Java on the Z. Can you run say Freemind on the Z? How about the JPluck java app? Do they run or are they to bloated for J2me? What about Python Support, is it the full python or small subset like in palm OS? I am starting to mess with Python. Is smallbasic implemended on the Z like in Linux/win/palm OS? Thanks.

Thanks.
-metal9966

[nevarrie]

What should I do? (need non-bais opinion, J/k)

As cvmiller said it is going to depend on what you want you hand held to do.  For me the PIM and sync is a nice extra but not what I really need out of my handheld.  I need to be able to ssh to any of my servers, uses vim locally, surf the web, view pdf manuals, and keep a password database.  What finally made me decide that the SL-6000 was my best option to upgrade to from my Treo 180 was that the Zaurus did what I wanted with a 600x480 screen making it most like a postable computer to me, whihc is what I want from a handheld.  

So I would recommend deciding what you what you hand held to do for you.  

The zaurus is a great handheld computer but it can not compare to palm when it comes to the pim and syncing the pim.  I uses kopi, ompi, and kapi which work well enough for me but I know from a time when I keep my life in my palm that it would not work as well as DateBook 5 did.

[GoLinux]

Metal9966,

I don't have enough experience (yet...) to offer qualified advice on your #2 point, although it is something I'm too very interested in exploring.

However, as far as #1 is concerned, I believe you have not too much to be worried. One of the beauty of the Zaurus is that you have to go "under the hood" only if you want too. Granted, as a PDA it is certainly not the most polished around, but it can be used as a decent PDA and be "unleashed" to full power when you want.

To make an analogy, I see it pretty much like chosing a car: If you only care about being transported from point A to point B, almost any car can be a good fit. However, if you are the kind of guy who likes driving and having fun while still going front point A to point B, then you get something sportier. The sporty car will still carry you from point A to point B, but the possibilities are up to a whole new level...

Aren't few things in life not just about the destination, but rather about the journey? Get a Palm or a PPC and you will have good PDA functions, some advanced functionality and you may even learn a thing or two in the process. Get a Zaurus with Linux and your learning opportunities become virtually endless, not to mention the fun factor.

I like to think of my SL-6000L as a personal trainer for my brain...

And by the way, I'm talking as an hard core Psion user who has only recently entered the Zaurus universe. While the world was going Palm in the early 90s I got a Psion 3c. Few years later Windows CE clamshell machines arrived, but the 3c stayed. Few years ago the PPC started and I decided to upgrade to a Psion 5mx...
Then Psion left the pocket computer market and I would have probably ended buying one of those "hi-end" PPC, had I not run by chance into the SL-C700 announcement while running a google search for a "PDA with keyboard".  Man, what a discovery!!!!! Just thinking of the possibilities opened by such a platform was mind boggling.
For at least a year I have been waiting for the right opportunity to get one of those Zaurus Linux boxes. When I saw Amazon slashing the price almost 50%, that was it... I ordered the SL-6000L and I'm loving it.

Give it a try, especially if you already know Linux and want to do programming. What's the risk? You can easily return it or resell it on eBay in few months and probably even make some money in the process!!!!

Enjoy the journey....

[metal9966]

GoLinux & nevarrie,

Thanks for all the input, GoLinux has the best point that I can sell the 6000 if I dont like it.  Hmmm... maby buy a 6000 and a Cheap palm Zire for pims, Sounds like a plan. Thanks for all the input, I will hopefully make up my mind soon!

Metal9966

[raybert]

If you decide to go with the Z, I would recommend that you NOT run out too quickly to buy that cheap Zire.  Give KO/pi and KA/pi a chance first.  These are really excellent PIMs.  Frankly, I think it's the rare person who needs more than these offer.  They have excellent synching capabilities with multiple devices and formats; they're being actively developed and the developers are accessible and listen to suggestion; and they're also multi-platform which means you can have the exact same PIM application running on your desktop with full syncing.

I'm really curious: what does datebk5 offer that Kx/pi doesn't?  (No hyperbole here, I'm genuinely curious.)

~ray