Messages

61

General Discussion / More Choice In Linux Based Pdas And Smartphones

« on: May 01, 2005, 05:48:06 am »

Could you please upload the final spec given to the two manufacturers?
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The spec is attached.

I learned in the meantime that the micro-laptop should probably be separated into two models, one being sort of a high-end C3000 - and the other one a sub-notebook-mini-tablet (e.g. 6-8'' screen). But probably the same processor, architecure, memory, interfaces etc.

Regarding software I should add that the asian company says they have 4 years experience with Linux and Qt.

Nikolaus

62

General Discussion / More Choice In Linux Based Pdas And Smartphones

« on: April 29, 2005, 08:42:58 am »

We find a manufacturer of a device that we all really like, and start an escrow fund

I have submitted the spec to two manufacturers and from one (Asia) I already have an answer. They claim they can develop all three models. But they are asking for the business model behind.

They ask
a. who is funding development (well, we need at least some adaptation and industrial design)
b. how manufacturing is done (from that I assume they are a Design House)
c. how warranty/repair is handled

for a. we need some purchasing association and/or some fund - and I have asked them how much they estimate.
for b. I have asked if they have a manufacturing site in asia
Part c. is IMHO lower priority - this can be handled by companies already importing the Zaurus to Europe (like us) and the US. Usually this is handled by overshipment / having a repair pool or stock of spare parts.

So, I am keen to learn on ideas on the fund / fund-raising approach. One example coming to my mind is the Blender3D foundation.

Nikolaus
http://www.handheld-linux.com

63

General Discussion / Specification Of "new" Linux Handhelds

« on: April 11, 2005, 06:17:45 am »

I just came across https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=11759 which contains a link to an "Zircon Axia A108" smartphone which roughly fits the spec of the Tux Smartphone.

64

General Discussion / Specification Of "new" Linux Handhelds

« on: April 09, 2005, 02:19:57 am »

Kahm,
thank you very much for the link to that spec! It has clarified a lot.

There is no "mini A"

Absolutely wrong.

Well, there *was* no mini A plug until the spec for it was issued. So it *became* wrong after 24 june 2003 :-)

The USB port on the host capable Zaurii (the SL-6000, SL-C1000, and SL-C3000) is a USB 2.0 On-The-Go mini-AB port.

The comments here were so confident that it is a mini A (because they thought about USB host) but then I just found mini B cables (since I had thought about USB client for the standard cable)... We all were wrong and you are right: it must be an "OTG mini-AB" (the C3000 even comes with the correct grey color code). So I will put that into the spec.

And, should we specify the device to come with *two* cables? A Host plus a Client cable?

Tnx again,
Nikolaus

65

General Discussion / Specification Of "new" Linux Handhelds

« on: April 07, 2005, 03:15:26 pm »

Firstly,
there is a 0.2 version of the specification attached. Now put under GFDL.

Secondly,
it is a "mini B" plug on the device. There is no "mini A". The cable of the C3000 is "A to mini B". I just learned that myself. Here is the reference: http://www.usb.org/developers/docs/ecn1.pdf

Thirdly,
the main focus is on a device. So, software and its quality is something different. I think we should have a working "standard" software on it - and enough information to port e.g. OpenZaurus and/or pdaXrom or whatever you like to it. So, my main concern is that there is enough flash/ram/HDD available for future needs.

Fourthly,
I have added GPRS class 10 (up to 2 channels uplink). Here a reference what it means: http://www.gsmworld.com/technology/gprs/class.shtml

Nikolaus

66

General Discussion / Specification Of "new" Linux Handhelds

« on: April 07, 2005, 11:21:08 am »

Mabye someone could come up with a list that's more specific (Meaning...CPU:Intel Xscale pxa27x @ 312-624 mhz, and so on.), but not unreasonable(And cost efficient).Mabye then, a contracted manufacturer could make these devices...And a reseller could sell them, but only with the right demand.

That is basically my idea - create a rough list and just ask potential manufacturers what they have to offer. As offroadgeek stimulated by his comment: we probably need a separate legal entity that is open for all the resellers over the world, so that manufacturers become interested.

One more, IBM and several other companies have made  PDA reference designs, ready for take-off.

The IBM PowerPC 405LP based was my personal favourite... But they sold the 400 processor line to AMCC and the low power processor is not available any more. So, I think they dumped the reference design as well.

Nikolaus

67

General Discussion / Specification Of "new" Linux Handhelds

« on: April 07, 2005, 10:47:03 am »

It's fine to reference the poll and the discussion, but the ZUG and the OESF should not be tied to this RFI in any other way.  I don't want to be legally responsible for this if this progresses into an RFP...

Agreed, so this sentence will be changed.

I will contact you through PM how to make that clean, as I want to serve the OESF/Linux users and not claim anything which is not true or intended.

So, we all will focus on the technical aspects here.

Nikolaus

68

General Discussion / Specification Of "new" Linux Handhelds

« on: April 07, 2005, 09:31:43 am »

I think that should be mini A plug, that's what's on the 3000.

Hm, anybody knows it for sure?

I googled and found e.g. http://www.vivitar.com/Products/DigCams/te...Bminicable.html which shows an "A to mini B"

Nikolaus

69

General Discussion / Specification Of "new" Linux Handhelds

« on: April 07, 2005, 07:05:38 am »

Dear all,

as summarized in the recent poll, I have prepared a first draft for a "Request for Information" which can eventually be sent out to potential PDA manufacturers (including Sharp) as a demand profile from the Zaurus User Group. My minimum expectation is to stimulate the manufactueres to think (again) more about Linux based devices and optimally make available additional devices that you really can buy in Europe and the US.

Please comment on these device profiles (but please note that having everything inside drives cost far beyond 1000$ and getting a second source for a C3000-like device at $175 is unrealistic).

Many thanks,
Nikolaus

The Handheld Linux Shop
http://www.handheld-linux.com

70

General Discussion / More Choice In Linux Based Pdas And Smartphones

« on: April 06, 2005, 12:41:55 pm »

Dear all,

first of all thank you very much and sorry for the long time to prepare an answer.

I have carefully studied the poll and your comments and come to the following conclusions:

There is a clear (winning) quote for a Linux based Smartphone: 45%
And a second winner is interestingly a low priced Linux PDA: 31%

In total there have been 51 votes out of 6800 members of this forum (136 pages with 50 members each) which is below 1%.

I find there are essentially three groups ("market segments"):

Smartphone
* basically a P910/Nokia 9300/Treo like device but with (open access) Linux
* if possible with WiFi and/or Bluetooth integrated
* CF is not required (size)
* but SDIO and USB (host)
* display can be smaller than a PDA (Zaurus) something between 2.5 and 3 inch
* minimum is QVGA (320x240) resolution
* processor speed is not of highest importance (300MHz seen as sufficient)
* localized keyboard
* external camera (removeable)
* Qtopia Smartphone Edition

Micro Laptop
* basically want something substantially better than a C3000 with increased power (memory, harddisk size, processor speed)
* integrated WiFi or Bluetooth
* better battery life
* localized keyboard
* Linux 2.6 based

Low End PDA
* basically a new SL-A300- as small and light as possible
* could be a C1000 without keypad and no CF slot
* but should have SDIO, USB host
* Bluetooth/WiFi integrated would be nice
* VGA display
* no keypad, portrait mode only
* US $175 if possible (which I doubt...)

There have been some comments on the software but my impression was that Qtopia as the initial system is ok if all the required sources are available to create custom ROMs.

A great idea IMHO is to use the Penguin as the Brand/Logo and not the ZUG since I think the Tux logo can be used freely by everybody.

So, what are the next steps?

I intend to contact the manufacturer of these devices with these results and let's see what they think about such a project.

With many thanks to all contributors,
Nikolaus Schaller

The Handheld-Linux Shop
http://www.handheld-linux.com

71

General Discussion / More Choice In Linux Based Pdas And Smartphones

« on: March 18, 2005, 06:30:22 am »

Dear all,

we are a small online reseller in Europe focussing on improving the World by selling Handheld Linux devices - currently all available Sharp Zaurus models.

Every now and then, we come across announcements of new Linux based PDAs and Smartphones. Most of them are vapourware or design studies that never see a shop - remember the Royal LineaLX?.

But sometimes, we find something that is more real. This time it comes from a company in Asia and they have shown it last and again this year on CeBIT. Unfortunately, they don't have a brand themselves and they don't sell single unit quantities. So you and we can't simply order like with the Sharp Zaurus.

So, my approach is that if there shows up enough interest (meaning approx. 1000 devices per year) amongst you and your contacts, and we can raise some pre-investment money, we would approach them to make e.g. a ZUG branded device.

Attached are pictures of a PDA (the screen shows WinCE but they have Qtopia) and a Smartphone (more or less prototypes/platforms) and some spec:

PDA (seems to be similar to a Zaurus A300):
* 3''5 QVGA (320x240) touchscreen, no keypad
* Freescale ARM 200MHz
* 64 MB RAM, 64 MB Flash
* Speaker, Headphone, Microphone
* SD slot (no CF)
* IrDA, USB
* Linux 2.4 kernel, Qtopia
* Options: Bluetooth, WLAN, Camera, USB Host, FM Radio

Smartphone:
* 3'' QVGA (320x240) touchscreen, pull-out QWERTY keypad
* Freescale i.MX21 350MHz
* 64 MB RAM, 64 MB Flash
* Triband, GPRS Class 10
* WLAN integrated
* Speaker, stereo Headphone, Microphone
* SD slot (no CF)
* 1'3 Mpix CMOS camera
* IrDA, USB
* Linux 2.4 kernel, Qtopia

As I haven't seen the smartphone in operation, I can't tell anything more. Generally, specs seem to have some flexibility, as they make customized devices.

I have no idea on the price because that is part of negotiations - so, if you are interested, please tell how much you would value such a device (compared to the price of a Zaurus).

Nikolaus
http://www.handheld-linux.com