Messages

46

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 20, 2005, 08:54:20 am »

Does it at least have IR?

Yes

The *only* thing that I can think of that would make this worth buying is a 100% open software, and I'm not fanatic enough to buy it for that.

Yes, that is the intent - and to have it available for some time. Independently of market strategies and product decisions of Sharp, Dell, HP or whoever...

It's basically a Palm 505 running linux.

Well, more an Sharp SL-A300 with either Bluetooth or WiFi.

47

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 20, 2005, 08:51:15 am »

For the original estimate of 2/3 the cost of a CL1000, personally I'd rather spend an extra 1/3 and get a CL1000. The addition of Wifi or Bluetooth aren't compelling enough for me to go with a lower resolution display, no USB host, and it didn't seem like a built-in keyboard.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80589\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Ok, you are probably member of the "Micro Laptop" group.

Nikolaus

48

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 20, 2005, 08:49:32 am »

How about this; write up a simple web page in php or something with approximate costs for each item...
--- snip ---
Let people "build their own PDA" and see how much it would cost.  Let them save their option in a cookie, and gather statistics when they 'save'.  You can get all kinds of good info from that, including most often chosen options, and average/mean/median cost.

Yes, I have though about that and the best marketing research tool to do is called "Conjoint Analysis". It would provide you repeatedly with two randomly mixed products, sum up the price and let you state your preference. From all that it calculates the most preferable model and the relative preference of features.

I yery much like the idea of "Open Source Product Sepcification", so if you would volunteer to write the scripts, I would try to provide some data to fill it in.

Unfortunately, the whole approach works only if you have really the choice to design a device from scratch.

In this case it can only work the other way around: use an existing device and add something which is most urgently needed to make it attractive.

Nikolaus

49

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 19, 2005, 12:00:02 pm »

If you go with Intel's latest Xscale member, the pxa270, you wil get SDIO for free, as well as 3 serial ports (one for the cradle, one for BT, one for IR). I don't know if a Samsong SoC is cheaper, but they have mostly the same features.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80535\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

It is already fixed that it has an Freescale i.MXL processor (ARM 9). There appears to be no choice (without starting a 10 Mio US$ completely new development).

Nikolaus

50

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 19, 2005, 11:57:39 am »

does this thing have a serial port? ir? usb? or are we talking just an sd slot and only either wifi or bt for any connection to anything (like a keyboard, or a phone?)

I should shutup, though, since pim is not very important to me and this is clearly a pim device.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80532\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Questions are always welcome even if you are probably not the user...

Yes, it has IR, a serial interface and USB (client, probably 1.1). So, it *could* be possible to connect anything else through a serial interface but I doubt if you can easily buy them. Therefore the wireless connection is very important.

51

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 19, 2005, 11:55:23 am »

Virtually any ARM based chip has an CF interface. The iPAQ h4150 you mentioned uses that for it's internal WLAN. Bluetooth is hooked to the CPU's UART.
Another note: your design and specs look a lot like the iPAQ h1900 series, which are cheaper than the price you quoted.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80530\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Ok, I don't know as I am not the technician to develop that device...

Pricing is depends heavily on the number of units. And HP is able to sell at least 100 times the number of such a device...

52

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 19, 2005, 11:07:17 am »

I voted wifi (BTW you *can* connect to a printer that has a print server) because I don't use bluetooth in my ipaq as much as the wifi.  BTW I'm pretty sure there are more Z owners (in North America at least) with wifi than owners with bluetooth.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Good points to consider!

Many thanks,
Nikolaus

53

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 19, 2005, 11:05:24 am »

2x cf + usb?

but slots are better than gadgets.... more customizable, and cheaper
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80513\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Hm,
that is something I would consider a feature of a "Micro Laptop" class of devices.

And, slots are cheaper as long as they are unused and you don't add the cost of devices to add in.

Finally, a PDA becomes much bulkier by addings CF slots. So, this discussion is about bringing a little back the original idea of an everyday's use "Palm Pilot" but based on the now matured Linux / Qtopia systems to have software flexibility.

And make it connect to the outside world.

Nikolaus

54

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 19, 2005, 10:59:27 am »

I wasn't perfectly clear about my reasoning in my post.  I would *assume* the presence of a CF slot becuase of the sheer amount of peripherals and memory modules that require CF.  It would be ridiculous to release a PDA sans CF slot.

That being said, If I had to "add on" a bluetooth or wifi module, a wifi module would stick out, whereas a bluetooth module would not.  Make more sense now?

If you're thinking about a PDA without a CF slot, you're just not being realistic.

Ok, understood.

IMHO, having this kind of swiss army knife flexibility is not the story of a Low-End PDA.

Therefore, I am talking about a PDA without CF slot, but of course SD (unfortunately no option for SDIO). And the there are popular models from Dell (Axim X30 series) and HP (e.g. HP iPAQ h4155) do not have a CF slot either.

Thanks for the clarification,
Nikolaus

55

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 19, 2005, 10:43:46 am »

Could you add a "both" entry or is that out of discussion ?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80514\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I have thought about that for a long time. But then I did not add it because I would expect that everybody would think: if I can get both, I select "both". And the result would be 95%.

And the truth is that it is already very expensive to add anything (other options would have been USB host, SDIO, CF slot, FM radio, integrated GPS receiver) but I felt that a low end PDA needs most urgently ONE good wireless communication channel.

So it is really about selecting a single option - and finding out the "most popular" or "mostly demanded" one.

Nikolaus

56

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 19, 2005, 10:27:44 am »

I didn't see CF included in the specs.  I would vote a cf slot over both those options. wouldn't it be cheaper to implement?

CF needs a lot of space in a small device. And integrating a Bluetooth or WiFi chip is less expensive than a CF/PCMCIA chip plus connector plus cover plus adding a CF card.

And a great benefit will be for software developers: it is 100% clear which chipset is used. Look at all the threads about: "which card works", "where is the driver for..."?

So, in total it would be a more expensive solution making you ask why it isn't much cheaper than a C1000...

The idea is to have a real low end PDA which does the main task of a PDA including some wireless connectivity (e.g. to the internet, a PC, external devices) - but still being open to write your applications using gcc.

Nikolaus

57

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 19, 2005, 10:19:33 am »

I voted wifi because a bluetooth CF card doesn't stick out.  A wifi cf card does.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80500\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Thank you very much!

Unfortunately, we have to subtract at least your vote - because the discussion is about integrating WiFi or Bluetooth inside of the device (like e.g. the SL6000). So nothing is sticking out in any case. I probably was not 100% clear in formulating the poll.

Nikolaus

58

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 19, 2005, 07:28:37 am »

I should have added some pros and cons:

What can/can't you do with each of both?
WiFi:
* connect to the internet through a wireless access point or public hotspot
* connect (sync) to WiFi capable laptop/desktop
* connect a WiFi capable disk drive
* can't: connect to printer, mobile phone, keyboard, GPS receiver

Bluetooth:
* connect to the internet through a wireless access point or mobile phone
* connect (sync) to Bluetooth capable laptop/desktop, mobile phone
* connect to printer, mobile phone, keyboard, GPS receiver
* can't: use a public hotspot

Nikolaus

59

General Discussion / New Low-end "tux Pda"

« on: May 19, 2005, 05:29:59 am »

Dear all,
you might have followed my recent discussions on three new Linux PDA/Phone specifications defined by you, the ZUG users.

Now, the Low-End "Tux PDA" is becoming a little more realistic (at approx. 2/3 of the price of an SL-C1000), since one asian company I have contacted is interested in supporting this project.

Their current design (apparently being sold in China) is a SL-A300 like device:
* no keyboard
* 320x240 display,
* 64MB RAM
* 32MB ROM
* USB client (no host)
* SD (no SDIO)
* Linux 2.4.18 and Qtopia

Since this device seems too limited in connectivity to be attractive, we are now discussing is to start a redesign and add connectivity. To limit project cost, implementing both is out of scope.

So, what do you feel is more important in a Low End Linux PDA: WiFi or Bluetooth and why?

Many thanks for all votes and responses,
Nikolaus

60

General Discussion / New Zaurus This Summer?

« on: May 19, 2005, 05:17:14 am »

My wishlist, by priority:

(1) MORE RAM (256MB + min, puhleeze!)
(2) faster CPU (fine if we can throttle it)
(3) built in wifi
(4) higher res (800x600) ... in 860 or 6000 SCREEN.

Seems to go quite in the direction of my "Whish-List-Spec" for the "Micro-Laptop" in the recent thread https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=11403

I have had handed that spec (attachment of Post #70 https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=11403&st=69#) over to one of my contacts in Sharp Europe but did not get a feedback if it meandered through to Japan... So, if any of the readers has additional conacts, please forward the spec to anybody who could help.

Nikolaus