Poll

What is more important: Bluetooth or WiFi?

Bluetooth
7 (12.5%)
WiFi
49 (87.5%)

Total Members Voted: 54

Author Topic: New Low-end "tux Pda"  (Read 9965 times)

handheld-linux

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New Low-end "tux Pda"
« on: May 19, 2005, 05:29:59 am »
Dear all,
you might have followed my recent discussions on three new Linux PDA/Phone specifications defined by you, the ZUG users.

Now, the Low-End "Tux PDA" is becoming a little more realistic (at approx. 2/3 of the price of an SL-C1000), since one asian company I have contacted is interested in supporting this project.

Their current design (apparently being sold in China) is a SL-A300 like device:
* no keyboard
* 320x240 display,
* 64MB RAM
* 32MB ROM
* USB client (no host)
* SD (no SDIO)
* Linux 2.4.18 and Qtopia

Since this device seems too limited in connectivity to be attractive, we are now discussing is to start a redesign and add connectivity. To limit project cost, implementing both is out of scope.

So, what do you feel is more important in a Low End Linux PDA: WiFi or Bluetooth and why?

Many thanks for all votes and responses,
Nikolaus
« Last Edit: May 19, 2005, 10:17:29 am by handheld-linux »

handheld-linux

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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2005, 07:28:37 am »
I should have added some pros and cons:

What can/can't you do with each of both?
WiFi:
* connect to the internet through a wireless access point or public hotspot
* connect (sync) to WiFi capable laptop/desktop
* connect a WiFi capable disk drive
* can't: connect to printer, mobile phone, keyboard, GPS receiver

Bluetooth:
* connect to the internet through a wireless access point or mobile phone
* connect (sync) to Bluetooth capable laptop/desktop, mobile phone
* connect to printer, mobile phone, keyboard, GPS receiver
* can't: use a public hotspot

Nikolaus
« Last Edit: May 19, 2005, 07:29:43 am by handheld-linux »

craigtyson

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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2005, 09:17:45 am »
To Qualify Y Bluetooth.

1. Cheap to include and supports phone access. Will be more attractive to your Asian developer as G3 is real in China.

2. Ownership of laptops and hence WIFI points is lower than in the west. (Or was when I was in China.  Also you need an ID card to get a logon in an internet Cafe in China.)
Craig
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Gondola

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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2005, 09:29:00 am »
I voted wifi because a bluetooth CF card doesn't stick out.  A wifi cf card does.
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bluedevils

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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2005, 10:19:04 am »
I didn't see CF included in the specs.  I would vote a cf slot over both those options. wouldn't it be cheaper to implement?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2005, 10:20:18 am by bluedevils »
I'm now an iphone user and use my zaurii as serial terminals, perl and shell scripting and when I need 640x480 screens

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handheld-linux

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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2005, 10:19:33 am »
Quote
I voted wifi because a bluetooth CF card doesn't stick out.  A wifi cf card does.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80500\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Thank you very much!

Unfortunately, we have to subtract at least your vote - because the discussion is about integrating WiFi or Bluetooth inside of the device (like e.g. the SL6000). So nothing is sticking out in any case. I probably was not 100% clear in formulating the poll.

Nikolaus

adf

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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2005, 10:23:18 am »
2x cf + usb?

but slots are better than gadgets.... more customizable, and cheaper
**3100 Zubuntu Jaunty,(working on Cacko dualboot), 16G A-Data internal CF, 4G SD, Ambicom WL-1100C Cf, linksys usb ethernet,  BelkinF8T020 BT card, Belkin F8U1500-E Ir kbd, mini targus usb mouse, rechargeble AC/DC powered USB hub, psp cables and battery extenders.

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Mickeyl

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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2005, 10:24:03 am »
Could you add a "both" entry or is that out of discussion ?
Cheers,

Michael 'Mickey' Lauer | Embedded Linux Freelancer | www.Vanille-Media.de
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handheld-linux

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« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2005, 10:27:44 am »
Quote
I didn't see CF included in the specs.  I would vote a cf slot over both those options. wouldn't it be cheaper to implement?
CF needs a lot of space in a small device. And integrating a Bluetooth or WiFi chip is less expensive than a CF/PCMCIA chip plus connector plus cover plus adding a CF card.

And a great benefit will be for software developers: it is 100% clear which chipset is used. Look at all the threads about: "which card works", "where is the driver for..."?

So, in total it would be a more expensive solution making you ask why it isn't much cheaper than a C1000...

The idea is to have a real low end PDA which does the main task of a PDA including some wireless connectivity (e.g. to the internet, a PC, external devices) - but still being open to write your applications using gcc.

Nikolaus

bluedevils

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« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2005, 10:38:32 am »
I voted wifi (BTW you *can* connect to a printer that has a print server) because I don't use bluetooth in my ipaq as much as the wifi.  BTW I'm pretty sure there are more Z owners (in North America at least) with wifi than owners with bluetooth.
I'm now an iphone user and use my zaurii as serial terminals, perl and shell scripting and when I need 640x480 screens

sl-c3100/pda cacko 1.23 | sl-6000l/needs battery | sl-c760/server pdaxrom rc12 | Former sl-5500/tkcrom owner (sister's birthday gift)

Gondola

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« Reply #10 on: May 19, 2005, 10:42:20 am »
I wasn't perfectly clear about my reasoning in my post.  I would *assume* the presence of a CF slot becuase of the sheer amount of peripherals and memory modules that require CF.  It would be ridiculous to release a PDA sans CF slot.

That being said, If I had to "add on" a bluetooth or wifi module, a wifi module would stick out, whereas a bluetooth module would not.  Make more sense now?

If you're thinking about a PDA without a CF slot, you're just not being realistic.


Quote
Quote
I voted wifi because a bluetooth CF card doesn't stick out.  A wifi cf card does.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80500\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Thank you very much!

Unfortunately, we have to subtract at least your vote - because the discussion is about integrating WiFi or Bluetooth inside of the device (like e.g. the SL6000). So nothing is sticking out in any case. I probably was not 100% clear in formulating the poll.

Nikolaus
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80511\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
« Last Edit: May 19, 2005, 10:42:36 am by Gondola »
[span style=\'font-size:8pt;line-height:100%\']Nokia 770, running latest firmware.
1GB RS-MMC sandisk card
Garmin Etrex Legend GPS/USB Earthmate GPS
Rooted, with an SSH server, VNC viewer, etc.
[/span]

handheld-linux

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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2005, 10:43:46 am »
Quote
Could you add a "both" entry or is that out of discussion ?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80514\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
I have thought about that for a long time. But then I did not add it because I would expect that everybody would think: if I can get both, I select "both". And the result would be 95%.

And the truth is that it is already very expensive to add anything (other options would have been USB host, SDIO, CF slot, FM radio, integrated GPS receiver) but I felt that a low end PDA needs most urgently ONE good wireless communication channel.

So it is really about selecting a single option - and finding out the "most popular" or "mostly demanded" one.

Nikolaus

handheld-linux

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« Reply #12 on: May 19, 2005, 10:59:27 am »
Quote
I wasn't perfectly clear about my reasoning in my post.  I would *assume* the presence of a CF slot becuase of the sheer amount of peripherals and memory modules that require CF.  It would be ridiculous to release a PDA sans CF slot.

That being said, If I had to "add on" a bluetooth or wifi module, a wifi module would stick out, whereas a bluetooth module would not.  Make more sense now?

If you're thinking about a PDA without a CF slot, you're just not being realistic.
Ok, understood.

IMHO, having this kind of swiss army knife flexibility is not the story of a Low-End PDA.

Therefore, I am talking about a PDA without CF slot, but of course SD (unfortunately no option for SDIO). And the there are popular models from Dell (Axim X30 series) and HP (e.g. HP iPAQ h4155) do not have a CF slot either.

Thanks for the clarification,
Nikolaus

handheld-linux

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« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2005, 11:05:24 am »
Quote
2x cf + usb?

but slots are better than gadgets.... more customizable, and cheaper
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80513\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Hm,
that is something I would consider a feature of a "Micro Laptop" class of devices.

And, slots are cheaper as long as they are unused and you don't add the cost of devices to add in.

Finally, a PDA becomes much bulkier by addings CF slots. So, this discussion is about bringing a little back the original idea of an everyday's use "Palm Pilot" but based on the now matured Linux / Qtopia systems to have software flexibility.

And make it connect to the outside world.

Nikolaus

handheld-linux

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« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2005, 11:07:17 am »
Quote
I voted wifi (BTW you *can* connect to a printer that has a print server) because I don't use bluetooth in my ipaq as much as the wifi.  BTW I'm pretty sure there are more Z owners (in North America at least) with wifi than owners with bluetooth.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=80518\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
Good points to consider!

Many thanks,
Nikolaus