New Low-end "tux Pda"

[handheld-linux]

Dear all,
you might have followed my recent discussions on three new Linux PDA/Phone specifications defined by you, the ZUG users.

Now, the Low-End "Tux PDA" is becoming a little more realistic (at approx. 2/3 of the price of an SL-C1000), since one asian company I have contacted is interested in supporting this project.

Their current design (apparently being sold in China) is a SL-A300 like device:
* no keyboard
* 320x240 display,
* 64MB RAM
* 32MB ROM
* USB client (no host)
* SD (no SDIO)
* Linux 2.4.18 and Qtopia

Since this device seems too limited in connectivity to be attractive, we are now discussing is to start a redesign and add connectivity. To limit project cost, implementing both is out of scope.

So, what do you feel is more important in a Low End Linux PDA: WiFi or Bluetooth and why?

Many thanks for all votes and responses,
Nikolaus

[handheld-linux]

I should have added some pros and cons:

What can/can't you do with each of both?
WiFi:
* connect to the internet through a wireless access point or public hotspot
* connect (sync) to WiFi capable laptop/desktop
* connect a WiFi capable disk drive
* can't: connect to printer, mobile phone, keyboard, GPS receiver

Bluetooth:
* connect to the internet through a wireless access point or mobile phone
* connect (sync) to Bluetooth capable laptop/desktop, mobile phone
* connect to printer, mobile phone, keyboard, GPS receiver
* can't: use a public hotspot

Nikolaus

[craigtyson]

To Qualify Y Bluetooth.

1. Cheap to include and supports phone access. Will be more attractive to your Asian developer as G3 is real in China.

2. Ownership of laptops and hence WIFI points is lower than in the west. (Or was when I was in China.  Also you need an ID card to get a logon in an internet Cafe in China.)

[Gondola]

I voted wifi because a bluetooth CF card doesn't stick out.  A wifi cf card does.

[bluedevils]

I didn't see CF included in the specs.  I would vote a cf slot over both those options. wouldn't it be cheaper to implement?

[handheld-linux]

I voted wifi because a bluetooth CF card doesn't stick out.  A wifi cf card does.
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Thank you very much!

Unfortunately, we have to subtract at least your vote - because the discussion is about integrating WiFi or Bluetooth inside of the device (like e.g. the SL6000). So nothing is sticking out in any case. I probably was not 100% clear in formulating the poll.

Nikolaus

[adf]

2x cf + usb?

but slots are better than gadgets.... more customizable, and cheaper

[Mickeyl]

Could you add a "both" entry or is that out of discussion ?

[handheld-linux]

I didn't see CF included in the specs.  I would vote a cf slot over both those options. wouldn't it be cheaper to implement?

CF needs a lot of space in a small device. And integrating a Bluetooth or WiFi chip is less expensive than a CF/PCMCIA chip plus connector plus cover plus adding a CF card.

And a great benefit will be for software developers: it is 100% clear which chipset is used. Look at all the threads about: "which card works", "where is the driver for..."?

So, in total it would be a more expensive solution making you ask why it isn't much cheaper than a C1000...

The idea is to have a real low end PDA which does the main task of a PDA including some wireless connectivity (e.g. to the internet, a PC, external devices) - but still being open to write your applications using gcc.

Nikolaus

[bluedevils]

I voted wifi (BTW you *can* connect to a printer that has a print server) because I don't use bluetooth in my ipaq as much as the wifi.  BTW I'm pretty sure there are more Z owners (in North America at least) with wifi than owners with bluetooth.

[Gondola]

I wasn't perfectly clear about my reasoning in my post.  I would *assume* the presence of a CF slot becuase of the sheer amount of peripherals and memory modules that require CF.  It would be ridiculous to release a PDA sans CF slot.

That being said, If I had to "add on" a bluetooth or wifi module, a wifi module would stick out, whereas a bluetooth module would not.  Make more sense now?

If you're thinking about a PDA without a CF slot, you're just not being realistic.

I voted wifi because a bluetooth CF card doesn't stick out.  A wifi cf card does.
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Thank you very much!

Unfortunately, we have to subtract at least your vote - because the discussion is about integrating WiFi or Bluetooth inside of the device (like e.g. the SL6000). So nothing is sticking out in any case. I probably was not 100% clear in formulating the poll.

Nikolaus
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[handheld-linux]

Could you add a "both" entry or is that out of discussion ?
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I have thought about that for a long time. But then I did not add it because I would expect that everybody would think: if I can get both, I select "both". And the result would be 95%.

And the truth is that it is already very expensive to add anything (other options would have been USB host, SDIO, CF slot, FM radio, integrated GPS receiver) but I felt that a low end PDA needs most urgently ONE good wireless communication channel.

So it is really about selecting a single option - and finding out the "most popular" or "mostly demanded" one.

Nikolaus

[handheld-linux]

I wasn't perfectly clear about my reasoning in my post.  I would *assume* the presence of a CF slot becuase of the sheer amount of peripherals and memory modules that require CF.  It would be ridiculous to release a PDA sans CF slot.

That being said, If I had to "add on" a bluetooth or wifi module, a wifi module would stick out, whereas a bluetooth module would not.  Make more sense now?

If you're thinking about a PDA without a CF slot, you're just not being realistic.

Ok, understood.

IMHO, having this kind of swiss army knife flexibility is not the story of a Low-End PDA.

Therefore, I am talking about a PDA without CF slot, but of course SD (unfortunately no option for SDIO). And the there are popular models from Dell (Axim X30 series) and HP (e.g. HP iPAQ h4155) do not have a CF slot either.

Thanks for the clarification,
Nikolaus

[handheld-linux]

2x cf + usb?

but slots are better than gadgets.... more customizable, and cheaper
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Hm,
that is something I would consider a feature of a "Micro Laptop" class of devices.

And, slots are cheaper as long as they are unused and you don't add the cost of devices to add in.

Finally, a PDA becomes much bulkier by addings CF slots. So, this discussion is about bringing a little back the original idea of an everyday's use "Palm Pilot" but based on the now matured Linux / Qtopia systems to have software flexibility.

And make it connect to the outside world.

Nikolaus

[handheld-linux]

I voted wifi (BTW you *can* connect to a printer that has a print server) because I don't use bluetooth in my ipaq as much as the wifi.  BTW I'm pretty sure there are more Z owners (in North America at least) with wifi than owners with bluetooth.
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Good points to consider!

Many thanks,
Nikolaus