Author Topic: What's Wrong With Elsi?  (Read 35085 times)

dhns

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« on: May 31, 2005, 08:55:30 am »
Dear all,

it appears that ELSI is not really used by users and developers - and killefiz.de is no longer being updated.

And killefiz.de says:
Quote
elsix.org is already operational - there are still some things that need to be done but it's already much better than ZSI ever was.

But if I look at the latest entries, I have the impression that elsix is not really being adopted and used. It e.g. appears that nobody uses the voting mechanism and developes use just the default branch. And there are just 2 new entries since 17th April.

What does that mean?
* is ELSIX not user friendly enough?
* is there no new Zaurus software development?
* is there a simple solution to fix?

My opinion is that Roy has done a great job in preparing ELSIX - but there was probably not really the need for all those new bells and whistles. It was just the need to have someone to approve project updates in the old killefiz (incl. style&layout). So we end up in great technology but low use.

Should we switch back to the killefiz database&scripts (just host it here) and find volunteers to approve projects (there is a lot of spam in the killefiz backlog)?

What are your opinions?

-- hns
« Last Edit: May 31, 2005, 08:57:11 am by dhns »
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pgas

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2005, 09:10:43 am »
1- lack visibility: google for "zaurus gaim" and killfiz appear not elsix
2 - each distribution has its own feeds with a lot of apps
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cybersphinx

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2005, 09:43:38 am »
Lack of visibility is probably the main problem. If you go to www.killefiz.de/zaurus, you don't see any mention of ELSI. That's just on the Zaurus page linked from the main page, but I guess most people use a bookmark or link to get there. Possibly the most effective thing to do is to redirect killefiz to ELSI, or at least to mention ELSI prominently on every page there.

Another problem might be the start page, at least I think the entries there are too large, so you don't see a lot of them at once. I'd show just the first line from the description on the start page, that'd make it more compact. And put the 'Recent projects' bar to the left, it's a bit lost on the right side.

dz

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2005, 09:48:23 am »
I wondered that as well.  I think if the elsi was finished to full, it would be better utilized.  The major point of having it was so we could host projects locally on that host.  This way, people wouldn't have to hope that the server hosting the files was up.  The original method involved using ftp, but when we got our host we weren't able to have anon ftp so we have to switch to a browser upload method.  I simply haven't had time to take on a big task like that, and unfortunately noone else has volunteered to help with the elsi so I've kinda been stuck :-/  I've done some little things to try and keep development going, but switching over to a browser upload is quite the revamp in the code, and it'll take a lot of time.

If someone is willing to help program the elsi and switch over to a browser upload, I'd be willing to help them.  It was easier before when I was in college and had all the time in the world.  I'm graduated now and working full time, so it's a little different
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adrian

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2005, 09:53:46 am »
I think I'll take care of this, but it won't be any sooner than 2-3 weeks time
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dz

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2005, 10:02:09 am »
Well, the main question is that if that was fixed, would the elsi be used any more than it is being used now?

I think that is the question we need to address and solve.  If the look is too confusing, it can be changed.  If the overall elsi is too complicated, it can be simplified.  Just let us know, and we'll do our best to work on it.
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bluedevils

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2005, 11:47:00 am »
One is to get search engines to point elsi and not the old site.

I personally like the front page to be the browse software page with added links for new  software changes or additions and separate trees for projects.

Most of the hot projects, however are probably more comfortable housing their own projects.  It's a control thing I guess.
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jamesm

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2005, 12:23:56 pm »
Quote
Another problem might be the start page, at least I think the entries there are too large, so you don't see a lot of them at once. I'd show just the first line from the description on the start page, that'd make it more compact. And put the 'Recent projects' bar to the left, it's a bit lost on the right side.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82254\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

I agree with this. The start page entries are really too large, not helped by the extremely accessible    font size used on the site.

I think perhaps the index needs on there to give software categories on the first page, that would be very useful.

Also a one-line "about" or "mission statement" piece of text somewhere at the top of the page wouldn't go amiss. To the new and uninitiated user, the whole concept of the site may be lost.
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dhns

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2005, 12:41:24 pm »
Quote
I personally like the front page to be the browse software page with added links for new  software changes or additions and separate trees for projects.
I agree on that.

If I look at the old killefiz page, it gives approx. 18 entries with: name, short description, date of update. And on the left side the starting points to browse categories.

It is pretty similar to e.g. http://www.versiontracker.com or http://www.macupdate.com which are very popular and heavily used software archives.

So, my proposal would be to combine the current "Browse Software" page with the "Recent Projects" list as the starting page. And show in the "Recent Projects" list: Title, Version, first 40 characters of the "About:" part combined with the date (does not need to be the full "Monday, May 30th 2005 - 3:16 pm" format - "2005/05/30" would be enough). Don't show Author, Full description, Changes on this list.

Then, let's see if useage improves.

-- hns
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craigtyson

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2005, 12:41:55 pm »
Dosnt help that there are quite a few broken links.  And Im guessing more people are using direct ipk feeds to get software now ie Cacko / Sharp  / Opie / XPDA
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rjohnson1969

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2005, 08:41:45 am »
My problem is that the Zaurus software community has become very diverse.  My 5500 w/ Sharp ROM was once the main target of software development, but now several other ROMs and Zaurii are more popular.  What I think a software index needs to do is help the user find software that is supposed to run on his particular device.
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Mickeyl

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2005, 09:13:28 am »
Personally, now that the amount of devices and distributions are so big, I do think that a semi-automated approach is needed, i.e. something that is coupled with the feeds of the "big" distributions.

Speaking for the OpenZaurus distribution, we have thousands of packages in our feeds - an automated web interface (perhaps with the option to supply comments and additional metadata by hand) would be a much more useful than an index where people manually have to submit everything. Indexes like that tend to rot pretty soon.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2005, 09:34:32 pm by Mickeyl »
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gojira

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2005, 09:37:21 pm »
Quote
Just let us know, and we'll do our best to work on it.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=82257\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

here are my suggestions:

* change the home page to be an introduction and a menu, move the current home page to a sub page

* add more sub-categories to make browsing easier (259 in applications)

* include all entries on one page (13 pages in applications)

* able to view all entries in a category including sub-categories, or just those in a sub-category

* mechanism for users to add compatibility information

* requirement when a package is added to include compatibility information

* use search options to filter browse list

as a c860 user, the most useful thing is to know in advance is if the app will work at all, and if it will work in high-res

thanks
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ken

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2005, 10:26:21 pm »
Quote
Dear all,

it appears that ELSI is not really used by users and developers - and killefiz.de is no longer being updated.

And killefiz.de says:
Quote
elsix.org is already operational - there are still some things that need to be done but it's already much better than ZSI ever was.


Finally, some method of feedback.  I have emailed elsix and never ever received any responses to the things I've asked and commented on.

1) the search feature on elsix is for the most part non functional.  It can find certain things, but it is far from the search feature on killefiz.  Try searching for various things and you'll see.

2) I've wanted to update incorrect entries, and emailed elsix but never have I gotten any response back.  Pretty hard to fix anything if the only way you can fix something is to claim it.

3) killefiz entries are more compacted, easier to find things.  I've really wanted to update things on his site, but again, never a response to my offering to assist in checking entries, etc.  Things more or less have died when killefiz stopped updating his site.  Really, all that his site needs is to be cleaned up of the bad entries.

4) elsix, as mentioned by others, have no had the visibility that killefiz has.  Of course, I go back to the very limited search feature ...

5) lastly, responses would be nice.  In one case, I had to really work at trying to contact the author of his program because the email listed was incorrect.  

I would point it that it gets very disappointing when I see errors, but can't do anything to provide the corrections.
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tumnus

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What's Wrong With Elsi?
« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2005, 07:29:08 pm »
My two points:

1) As others have said, the entry for each listed item is too big. The description should be chopped off after only about 30 characters or something, with new lines removed too.
2) I don't seem to be able to upload ipks direct to ELSI. When I get to the page that instructs me where to upload, it doesn't give the necessary details.
# Search the Zaurus Howtos ## Search the Zaurus FAQs ## Find Z software at ELSI #
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