Author Topic: Important Update...  (Read 40135 times)

Snappy

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Important Update...
« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2006, 08:48:12 am »
hehe ... maybe "targeted" would be even more appropriate than downgraded or degraded!  Anyone need a corporate communications folk (who happen to code as well) here?

Xromer, I'm also quite shocked with the "OZ must die" line. It's like, there's all these talk about lack of cooperation and hope that we can move forward in collaboration and suddenly ... "OZ must die".
Snappy!
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clofland

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Important Update...
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2006, 09:41:57 am »
Yeah, pdaXrom has a VERY BAD case of "scope-creep!" It is hard, though, with a small team and no "release to market" schedule to settle down on a feature set. I imagine that often the fix for one issue leads on to a new feature. I'm sure that Sashz is hoping that the 2.6 kernel will fix some of the issues he is facing with Beta3 and below. Also, without a "release to market" there is little visible benefit to be had from working hard to get something "polished," only to have to rebuild it for the next version. For instance, I doubt Sashz wants to spend much time on the Beta3 networking control applet, because he has to rewrite it for Beta4 anyway.

I think we all got a little disillusioned when we thought we were so close to a "final release version" and then a new feature (kernel 2.6) was added to the next "Beta" and the quality went backwards many many many steps. We thought we were on the very edge of "this is it," and then we get hit with, "Well, no, now we need to add a new kernel and spend another year in Alpha."

I, for one, would love to see a STOP at Beta3 with a feature FREEZE (including kernel) and have all the bugs fixed, and all of the various packages laying around in "unstable" and other people's feeds and such compiled to work "out of the box" on Beta3 in one feed. Release it as something equivalent to "pdaXrom Kernel 2.4 FINAL."

Then we could have a new RELEASE version, before we start down the long road toward a working 2.6 version.

It may be best, though, if WE do that, and just let Sashz go on with Beta4+.

So, what we need is someone to take charge of "finalizing" Beta3. Someone will have to solicit fixes, get them to Laze (and get him to implement them), and then rebuild the "ROMs" and rebuild packages.

On the other hand, maybe doing that would take more time than it would take to just get Beta4 up to release quality . . . I'm sure that is what Sashz is thinking, and he may be right.
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clofland

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Important Update...
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2006, 09:51:12 am »
Quote
. . . looking at the preferences programs which are all written in python and make them better and maybe even in C. All the current python stuff were just quick workarounds until we had the time to code them in C - acutally Zumi is working on that but im sure he could use some help.
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Actually, I like that they are written in Python. It makes it very easy to make quick changes to them without being a programmer or having to recompile packages.
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raduga

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Important Update...
« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2006, 12:07:25 pm »
Quote
From my POV it looks like pdaX develusers should create team which will work on improving pdaX and sashz should be degraded to kernel hacker/pdaX developer from 'pdaX the only one devel'.
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Quote
(I'm sure the word meant is downgraded, not degraded (lol) before anyone gets upset by the word Hrw used!)

I'm not sure "downgraded" is the right word, necessarily either.

Consider two things:  

a) Sash is currently the only one who gets to work on pdaXrom
b) Sash is currently the only one who is working on pdaXrom

excluding laze, and the few other direct contributors they've had, its basically
Sash's project.  Some on the OESF forums (and some elsewhere) think the project
might benefit, if Sash wasn't the only one working on it-
there are really three ways to go from here.

I) continue pdaXrom as it has been. which will make some people happy,
and some people unhappy, and some will not especially care
Ia) give sash more $$$
Ib) give sash less $$$
Ic) give sash the same amount of $$$ as before

II) fork pdaXrom!  (and by attribution, "fork" sash). This should make a few people
happy, a few people unhappy, and most won't really notice or care much.

III) work with sash to build a better pdaXrom.  This has been tried, apparently, with not great results so far.  There is no greater authority who can "downgrade" Sash from mainline pdaXrom development; only he can choose to take a different role, or not. Perhaps there is some inspiration to be gained from Linus' stepping away from
day-to-day Linux development, to focus, progressively on more and more "core" and essential subprojects.  If Sash is happy with the role he currently has, or doesn't wish to give up any power or control, he's probably going to stick doing what he's doing. If he gets sufficiently unhappy, I fear he's going to probably quit.

IIIa)
What might help Sash (and pdaXrom) would be to offer specific help with specific tasks;  bug-testing, bug-fixing, general apps, pdaXrom tools, kernel, bootloader, etc.
What Sash would have to do, in turn, would be to keep an open svn/cvs that lets developers have write access.  If this already exists, we're a step closer.
What Sash would have to do, which would be a pain, would be to *use* that repository for all the changes he makes, and commit himself to keeping it current.
This could be a small bother, or a real hassle, but it would probably be good practice for him, too :)

IV) OE devs keep insulting Sash, Sash keeps insulting oe devs, until either
OE people get annoyed and quit, or Sash gets annoyed and quits, which will leave
the Zaurus community poorer.   This is the "solution" that I hope we don't find.

"OE MUST DIE" and "sashz should be degraded" are both... fun things to chat about
and definitely this kind of speech releases anger and stress for the speaker,
but it causes more stress for the listener.

I hope we can keep trying to make option (III) or (IIIa) a reality, or (I) if not that,
or (II) if not that, and avoid (IV), but we'll have to see what people want the most, and are willing to contribute to.

(IV) death to [all zaurus development] is probably the easiest path to pursue :(

Hrw

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Important Update...
« Reply #79 on: June 21, 2006, 12:24:07 pm »
Ok. 'degraded' was not a good word - I meant change from "I am the only one who maintain and rest is not even worth to send me patches" to rather one of developers in project like you described in IIIa - sooner or later this method will end in creating 'pdaX core team' and 'pdaX devel team' instead of current situation.

IV situation looks funny indeed but it will rather not happen (atleast we (OE team) will not end - don't know about sash).

Situation II need to be avoided and version I is what we have now - not comfortable situation where some devels are switching from pdaX to OZ....
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tapjpa

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Important Update...
« Reply #80 on: June 21, 2006, 02:15:59 pm »
I've been watching this article now since it started and have managed to stay quiet and behind the scenes and stay out of this from a admin standpoint but it's kind of hard when a person makes the comment of "OE MUST DIE" my temptation is to suspend his account on here, however I don't think that would do the Zaurus community as a whole any good cutting off his access at this point. But I will make the warning that this sort of behavior/comments will not be tolerated here. If such comments continue they will be handled appropriatly.

clofland

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Important Update...
« Reply #81 on: June 21, 2006, 04:21:20 pm »
Quote
I've been watching this article now since it started and have managed to stay quiet and behind the scenes and stay out of this from a admin standpoint but it's kind of hard when a person makes the comment of "OE MUST DIE" my temptation is to suspend his account on here, however I don't think that would do the Zaurus community as a whole any good cutting off his access at this point. But I will make the warning that this sort of behavior/comments will not be tolerated here. If such comments continue they will be handled appropriatly.
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Wow, now that would be a turn of events if Sashz was banned from this forum!  
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Laze

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Important Update...
« Reply #82 on: June 21, 2006, 04:36:24 pm »
Quote
I, for one, would love to see a STOP at Beta3 with a feature FREEZE (including kernel) and have all the bugs fixed, and all of the various packages laying around in "unstable" and other people's feeds and such compiled to work "out of the box" on Beta3 in one feed. Release it as something equivalent to "pdaXrom Kernel 2.4 FINAL."

Then we could have a new RELEASE version, before we start down the long road toward a working 2.6 version.

It may be best, though, if WE do that, and just let Sashz go on with Beta4+.

If you saw what sash wrote it that the new beta is 2.6 - nobody said the beta3 would be stopped. Yes the names are bad but i haven't had the time to keep track and help out.
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miskinis

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Important Update...
« Reply #83 on: June 21, 2006, 05:04:46 pm »
Hi,

I suspect (or more correctly truly believe) that Sashz's comment about
"OZ must die" was said in humor, and to reenforce his longer term
commitment to continue development on pdaXrom.  I suspect he was
busy and wanted to join in the discussion, and energize the current
users.

John
_John Miskinis_

omro

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Important Update...
« Reply #84 on: June 21, 2006, 05:11:31 pm »
Quote
Hi,

I suspect (or more correctly truly believe) that Sashz's comment about
"OZ must die" was said in humor, and to reenforce his longer term
commitment to continue development on pdaXrom.  I suspect he was
busy and wanted to join in the discussion, and energize the current
users.

John
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One can energise the current users in better ways.

I'd much rather hear encouraging words about how people can participate in making pdaXrom better than just dragging up animosity towards other groups.
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tapjpa

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Important Update...
« Reply #85 on: June 21, 2006, 06:32:58 pm »
miskinis / omro-

I appreciate the comments made by both of you. I do agree that it was possibly made tongue and cheek. However as the past shows there have been inflammitory remarks made and I just wanted to remind the entire community to bite their tongues occasionaly and watch what we say. And please believe me if it ever came to the point that I had to ban someone of his stature in this community it would be very painfull. I would much rather mess with the rogue spammer and make their life rough not a person who has added so much functionality to the Zaurus. So on that note back to playing with my new 3200 that I love so much

Thanks to all for your help keeping this site going strong!!!

Jim

Xromer

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Important Update...
« Reply #86 on: June 22, 2006, 04:37:41 am »
Quote
I suspect (or more correctly truly believe) that Sashz's comment about
"OZ must die" was said in humor

Hope this too.  

4 things.

1) None has the rights and power to decide over the future of PdaXrom than Sashz and Laze, i think.
As this is a Sashz creature and i didn' t want to tell or do anything like that.
I didn' t like his behaviour only that in future with a stable connection and a new team will change logically.
For this reason I would like to see after 26th of June what Sashz will decide.
2) I learnt and i' m learning a lot with these teams, i have only to thanks all, but i have only one Zauri as i said so time by time i have to choose, this is why i would like th efforts to be nearer as possible.
3) As i' m primarily a user, i' m expressing only displeasure of this fighting behaviour between developers which energies are very precious and that ports only confusion in the Zauri comunity.
4) UHM...... Sure i did a bad thing saying this stuff in the Forum, surely i had to speak only with Sashz first (I tried) and i' m sorry for that, but this was only an attempt to unite not divide first the Sashz's post.
I think it will be the last as i saw it' s not possible.  
So spawn your own projects, fight as you want, you' re free to do it.  
But do not blame people when they become angry or confused because it' s your fault as your behaviour reflects as an echo in the comunity.
BYEZ!!!
« Last Edit: June 22, 2006, 04:40:11 am by Xromer »
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omro

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Important Update...
« Reply #87 on: June 29, 2006, 01:49:05 pm »
Hi

Any news on when the next update can be expected and what the new update will bring?
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CoreDump

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Important Update...
« Reply #88 on: June 29, 2006, 02:09:35 pm »
First off, some may know me as a OZ / OE person but I do have no grudge agains sashz or pdaXrom in general. I disagree with him on certain things but that's it.

However, I can't believe the discussion going on here about "degrading" sashz or "forcing" him to change his development style.

It's basically his project and he can bloody do what he wants with it. If he chooses to ignore offered patched (which I don't have any knowledge about) then it is his descision and his alone.

Guys, if you don't like it then
a) Fork the project and do it the (in your eyes) right way
\b) Stop complaining and just be happy about what you already have
c) Use another distro
d) Roll another distro from scratch

2 out of those 4 points require a not so small amount of work and dedication.
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sashz

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Important Update...
« Reply #89 on: June 29, 2006, 02:30:07 pm »
Me in Brazil now and i start my work again !!!

 New updates comming® soon:)