Author Topic: New Zaurus Software Effort  (Read 8734 times)

McChubby

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« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2006, 11:00:32 am »
Well, I've had my C1000 about 2 weeks now, and I'm completely new to the Zaurus!  I've tried every ROM going (at least twice each!!   ), loading applications, seeing how they work, etc., etc.  In the end I've got so confused, I had to write myself a set of notes on each ROM and what worked with what.  It's been very labour intensive, and I still don't know which ROM is most suitable for me, which GUI I like best, what apps I like, etc.

However what I do know, is that there is too much choice; each ROM with its own pros and cons - none do all that I want.  As was mentioned earlier the community is probably too small to support the kind of diversity we have now - we should work together not split-apart, however that means making a choice and sticking to it, and then ensuring that we influence the development/features etc. of our choice - isn't this a better approach; rather than forking-off another development, let us choose one that is "looking pretty good", and then influence that so we get what we want in the future.

As a software developer (and Zaurus user), I would prefer to see a layered-model that allows more of a mix and match approach...  We don't need loads of different kernels/boot loaders - just one that is stable, and includes all that the community needs.  I would like to choose between different window managers on top of the kernel, and I would like to get any application to run on top of it.  Furthermore I want any application to be able to run on the given window manager (or at least know it won't before I start!).

From my small amount of Zaurus knowledge I have got in the past 2 weeks, it seems that OE/OZ and the to-be-released Angstrom distribution is going the right way.  Since I want to help the community I will soon have to choose which distribution to work with; pdaXrom is a non-starter since it is a closed development, and looks like it has stalled.

baallrog

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« Reply #31 on: June 20, 2006, 02:09:23 pm »
It's true, there is too much distro ... for instance i don't have make a choice because the all softwares i want are not in a distro feed.

I think people who buy a Zaurus just want to use it and choose a distro which they feel better with ( i'm talking about the design and the gui, qtopia like or X11 like).

But for now to make a choice, we must test the distro and see which distro offer which softwares ...

for example : OZ don't have KO/PI but PdaXrom and cacko have it.
So if you want OZ because you like his kernel improvement or something else, you must use another software. Or you must build it yourself, and most of Zaurus owner are not able to do that ( i think ... )

So, before thinking of splitting anything, why don't make a 2.6 standard kernel and a universal feed ?

perhaps it's simply impossible but i hope it's possible.

And then the users have just to choose the gui they prefers.

hope this help

ps : please stop child war, this is useless and it make the linux pda community not reliable

McChubby

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« Reply #32 on: June 20, 2006, 02:53:14 pm »
Quote
<snip>

for example : OZ don't have KO/PI but PdaXrom and cacko have it.

<snip>
Initially that's what I thought (and I was disappointed, as Ko/Pi is a very good PIM), but you can install it for OZ(OPIE) from the feed (can't recall the exact path as I can't access http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/mirror/www.op...s.org/official/ for some reason, but it's under there).

This is the problem, when there are so many choices!

Anyways, I'm off now to watch England beat Sweden...  ...

Hrw

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« Reply #33 on: June 20, 2006, 03:20:42 pm »
OZ/OPIE: ipkg install kopi == installed KO/PI

OZ had KO/PI before 3.5.1 was released ;)
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baallrog

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« Reply #34 on: June 20, 2006, 05:09:16 pm »
oki that was not a good example ...

but i hope my idea was clear ( sorry i don't foudn another word to mean that i wish you understand me ... sorry for my english )

what do you think about working together and building a big feed for all the distro?

it is possible?

i think yes if there is a system like the debian depot ( don't think it's the right word ...  )

Hrw

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« Reply #35 on: June 20, 2006, 05:20:28 pm »
baallrog: like we (OE/OZ devs) told many times:

OpenEmbedded can generate packages which will be usable also under pdaX. Other config allow to build packages compatible with SharpROM etc.

OE is powerfull thing, ptxdist (used by pdaX and who-knows-how-chuckr-will-call-his-distro) has some power too - someone who know both can work on integrating stuff from one in another. But I do not feel that one day all distros will unite - it will just does not happen.
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TJBK_TJB

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« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2006, 09:13:07 pm »
I personally would also like to see WPA support built-in and multiple virtual consoles. It would also be nice if bvdd was safer because sometimes crashes hard on me. I've also had this bug where I have trouble connecting to any protected wireless network. I can rarely connect to WEP networks.

Hrw

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« Reply #37 on: June 21, 2006, 02:42:50 am »
TJBK_TJB: OZ already support WPA (I use WPA-PSK at home). Multiple virtual consoles are easy to setup - about one minute in "vi /etc/inittab".
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Laze

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« Reply #38 on: June 21, 2006, 04:03:23 am »
Busy, busy! - The sources are available and if anyone fixes anything i will personally make sure the fixes get implemented into the build - we are moving to SVN asap but until then.

Btw. the biggest problems arent in the kernel stuff which Sash is focused on - it so many "experts" are disliking the pdaXrom i can't believe why they just spend like 20-30 minutes looking at the preferences programs which are all written in python and make them better and maybe even in C. All the current python stuff were just quick workarounds until we had the time to code them in C - acutally Zumi is working on that but im sure he could use some help. http://mail.pdaxrom.org/soc/

Its just a matter of looking how the python scripts does stuff and then make that prettier and into C native apps.
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Snappy

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« Reply #39 on: June 21, 2006, 08:40:43 am »
Quote
Busy, busy! - The sources are available and if anyone fixes anything i will personally make sure the fixes get implemented into the build - we are moving to SVN asap but until then.

Btw. the biggest problems arent in the kernel stuff which Sash is focused on - it so many "experts" are disliking the pdaXrom i can't believe why they just spend like 20-30 minutes looking at the preferences programs which are all written in python and make them better and maybe even in C. All the current python stuff were just quick workarounds until we had the time to code them in C - acutally Zumi is working on that but im sure he could use some help. http://mail.pdaxrom.org/soc/

Its just a matter of looking how the python scripts does stuff and then make that prettier and into C native apps.
[div align=\"right\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Thanks Laze for the info ... I, for one, am up to the invite. Checking out the links right now ...  

EDIT: Read the link and ... how do I help? His email or contact?
This package is by him [a href=\"https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=16649&st=25]https://www.oesf.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=16649&st=25[/url] so I suppose I should PM him?

EDIT: PMed him.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2006, 09:02:36 am by Snappy »
Snappy!
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<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>SL-C1000 with Cacko 1.23 full
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Zumi

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« Reply #40 on: June 21, 2006, 02:30:25 pm »
There's a solution for you who want to contribute!

The closed-ness of pdaXrom was a problem since I first saw it and started to like it. After some asking, Sashz started to put up sources of apps and build system with every release (and sometimes more often).

I don't think that Sashz kept the source tightly closed, so no one can contribute. They were up, he made some documentation to help developers getting started (Build your ROM).
I made about 3 smaller contributions in the previous year and he accepted them all. Send diff files by email and comments, I don't think Sashz threw any of them away.

It wasn't really easy to contribute, that's for sure... make two copies of the source, edit one of them, make diff, email that. That's what I call hard.

So today I talked with Laze and we agreed that we need some versioning system. The idea is to setup an SVN server (objections, other ideas?) and give developer acc-s to you guys, who want to contribute. You can start a branch there, and Sashz or I will merge the things from it from time to time. So as the usual open source projects developments are going.

I hope you like this kind of open develop feeling (I know I do...) more.
What do you think?

Zumi
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trichmon

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« Reply #41 on: June 21, 2006, 02:41:03 pm »
I think that is a great step!  
Thanks
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danboid

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« Reply #42 on: June 21, 2006, 02:43:38 pm »
Is pdaXrom finally going to be openly developed? If so that is fantastic news for the Z community- I am glad sash and laze have seen the light. I never understood why it was closed in the first place- what was being gained? Its not like it was proprietary software they were making money out of. I suppose sash has more to brag about if its a one man show but he'll get more respect by co-operating and we'll all benefit from a faster developed, more stable OS- not that everyone didn't know this already.
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Zumi

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« Reply #43 on: June 21, 2006, 03:09:58 pm »
Quote
Is pdaXrom finally going to be openly developed? If so that is fantastic news for the Z community- I am glad sash and laze have seen the light. I never understood why it was closed in the first place- what was being gained? Its not like it was proprietary software they were making money out of. I suppose sash has more to brag about if its a one man show but he'll get more respect by co-operating and we'll all benefit from a faster developed, more stable OS- not that everyone didn't know this already.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=132237\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]
OK, isn't good to talk in Sashz place but I think it was purely laziness based.  He like to hack and develop pdaXrom in his own way. For example I think to move to 2.6 included a lot of hacking and it would take too much time to commit everything in a versioning system in the way, so it won't be broken from time to time. That requires a bit more strict developing fashion that doesn't really works with Sashz.

Other problem was that he doesn't always have and had good Internet connection (GPRS only at the moment, for example), so working with something like SVN would be hard too...
I don't know whether the sources on the SVN server will be the ones Sashz works with, but I will import his sources from time to time to the main trunk at least!

Zumi
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InSearchOf

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« Reply #44 on: June 21, 2006, 03:21:01 pm »
Its really good to hear that a change is going to be made....

I'm just waiting to hear from Sashz...
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