Author Topic: Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps  (Read 20589 times)

Stubear

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2004, 05:55:56 pm »
Cacko is the sharp rom with the dictionary and translation files taken out and the Japanese helvetica (sp?) fonts replaced with European fonts - If it works on the sharp rom then it will work on the Cacko rom

Stu
SL-C1000, Hand converted to English with Japanese Input
Running X apps via X/Qt
iRiver USB host cable; Diatec P-Cord usb power cable (extendable); Acro's Reel Cable USB (A to A, B, Mini-B,  & Mini-B 8pin); GreenHouse 1Gb PicoDrive+; 2x256Mb Hagiwara SD cards; 128Mb Transcend CF card; 512Mb PQI CF card; AmbiCom WL1100C-CF 11B WLAN card

Miami_Bob

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2004, 06:28:35 pm »
WOW! What a GREAT thread, folks! Don\'t have the time right now to respond to all that I\'d like to but will come back when I can.

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IMHO (being typed from a Zaurus...), the Zaurus falls under neither the PDA category nor the palmtop category.

Why? Well look at the \"original\" PDAs... .......

And a palmtop? Well, IMHO, its something that has more or less the ability to run desktop software well.


Excellent point, Inuyasha. Although my own definition of palmtop is a bit broader.

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The Zaurus doesn\'t do this. It runs scaled down, speedy versions of desktop software, but is far more featureful than more straight PDAs, like then Sony Clie, and the Palms. But it\'s not a desktop.


But, it COULD run full desktop software if the user desires! And, to me, thats the major factor. It COULD. No limits except those *we* put on it.

And, no, it is not a desktop, nor a laptop, nor restricted to \"just\" a PDA. It is a fully mobile, full featured palmtop format *computer* <G>.

I used the term \"unconscious portability\" for the 200LX because it was with me like my wallet & keys. 24/7/365 ready to rock.

Quote
So what is it? I can\'t really call it much other than the name it deserves. The Zaurus.


Truth there, but then we get into which version is \"THE\" Z (since the 5xxx/6000 *do* have differences due to form factor from the clamshells).

And \"kickass little bundle of beautiful power\" gets sorta longish <G> ...

(KALBOBP?)

Still, the way we (and outsiders) THINK & speak about these issues determines, to a great degree, the unspoken connotations behind how we & others view the potentials of the systems.

To classify the Zs as PDAs automatically limits the way potential buyers will view their useability. Unfortunately (IMHO), Sharp\'s \"PMT\" doesn\'t convey the essence of the machines to potential buyers & users.

I\'m not *stuck* on palmtop, but what \"is\" a good alternative term?

Great thread!


Bob W
Miami FL
Bob W - Miami FL
--------------------
"The legs of the duck are short and
 cannot be lengthened without distress
 to the duck.

The legs of the crane are long and
 cannot be shortened without distress
 to the crane."

Chuang-tzu

--------------------
C860 main - Sharp 1.40 JP ROM
Language conversion by hand

alts: Cacko 1.22 / OZ 3.5.1 / pdaXrom
512Mb SanDisk SD (x2) / 512Mb SanDisk CF (x2)
Lexar 1Gb CF / AmbiCom WL1100C-CF 802.11b WiFi

Out of Hp200LX, from HP100LX, via HP95LX
--------------------
Desktop MegaTower c/ twin DataPort HD racks;
12 removable HDs with multi OSs - no waiting.

--------------------

padishah_emperor

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #47 on: May 25, 2004, 09:15:25 pm »
The thing I find remarkable is that we are all trying to define if the Z is a PDA or Palmtop, it\'s either or none depending on your needs and requirements. I think that proves what a unique family of machines these really are. I know one thing, it\'s a pocket Linux workstation, the only term or description I need :-)
Left Linux and Linux PDAs... sorry, got boring.  Switched to Mac.

Inuyasha

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2004, 09:34:07 pm »
As a note to the OPIE discussion, IMHO, the best use of it is on the Sharp ROM, running with libopie (like on Zynergy for the 5600), using a few Opie applications, like OpieFtp, Oxygen (some of us do some chemistry -] I\'m still in high school), and a few others available in the Sharp ROM feed. It probably shouldn\'t be used (currently) as a stand-alone system because it\'s a little unstable, and not working well on many of the Zaurii, but it is good to supplement Qtopia with.

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(KALBOBP?)

Hmm, maybe if we can make it a little easier to pronounce it could stick...

KALBOP? Omit the beautiful? (Or just say it\'s a silent B )

Quote
I know one thing, it\'s a pocket Linux workstation, the only term or description I need

Probably the best description of the Zaurus yet (although I still vote for KALBOP )
-Justin

Zaurus SL-5600
PXA250
Mildly customized 1.32 Sharp ROM
Custom (cache workaround disabled only) zImage
256 MB Transcend Compact Flash, 64 MB Transcend MMC
Linksys WCF12 WiFi Card
Palm Tungsten T Stylus

PowerBook 12" G4 1 Ghz/1.25 GB RAM/80 GB HD/32 MB GeForce FX Go5200
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Debian Sid

omega

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2004, 07:34:29 am »
I think my Zaurus C860 has plenty of kick, especially when overclocked (for movies). Back in the day when i last used linux properly, it was on a 200mHz laptop with 32 MB RAM (I occasionally used Knoppix). It ran gnome without a problem, although i much prefered to use ICEWM for the pure speed of it. That was RedHat 6.0... I understand that there is no FPU, but that does not excuse crying about only 64Meg RAM.

From what i see, my Z can have several applications open at once, and it never fills up the RAM. I use it for movie playing, music playing, Hancom Word & Excel. And of course i\'m always looking at System Info whenever i have a moment! ;-)

I only have it a week ago today, so i will of course attempt to do more with it. I want to run Octave (Matlab clone) and a few other things... I came across a small older version of matlab for linux and i will try QEMU with this. I would also like to find a document somewhere telling me how to use SCUMMVM with my Sam & Max, DOTT CD\'s for example.

X/QT seems to work well, I\'ve only used XMMS there so far - i have a problem with no fonts being displayed on the menus... Whoever above was suggesting that the feed for X/QT be developed, I agree fully. I like Cacko 1.21A, it seems to work well with me. I know that X/QT is not an optimised X-server but if all a person is doing is trying to run something like ABIWord, that would hopefully not be an issue.

I understand that PDAXROM is trying to bring pure open source to the Z, and also to provide an optimised X-Server, but according to the posts it seems that it is rather slow due to the lack of FPU and there also seems to be issues playing videos. When these issues are largely addressed, then it is probably the better choice for users, as most applications that you will want to port to the Z will need / take advantage of the optimised X-Server compared to X/QT.

But for NOW, my Most Wanted Applications for Cacko: ABIWORD or something similar(Hancom Word is little more than a text editor, but i like their speadsheet program.) , some kind of game like command & conquer - have been playing the demo of stragetic assult, i like. If anyone has suggestions for these, please post them!

I think another problem is the lack of documentation and feeds, or perhaps more to the point their consolidation into one location. I must confess that although i knew about several feeds, i only recently realised that www.zaurususergroup.com/feed exists! I think that the projects are too scattered, and that documentation should be gathered in one place, divided into sections for the different ROM\'s. I understand that people like to have their own websites, to publish their own articles there and have people come \'check their place out\'. I think that even having a central document index on the ZUG, with just a link to these sites and a description under the appropriate sections would be beneficial.

Regarding the suggestions to compile the applications ourselves instead of asking, so that they DO exist for us all, what packages are needed to compile source code on the Z under Cacko? Why is libSDL in bits, i.e. that there are so many patched versions around on the ZUG?

BTW, the Cacko team have my appreciation and congratulations on such a good job!
Gorgeous C860, 256 Sandisk SD, 1Gig Pretec 40x CF, PDAIR leather case & the really cool retractable iPDA USB sync/charge cable. Powered by PDAXROM BETA 1.

My wish - to have a Command & Conquer style game on my Z! (FREECNC!!!) Simcity 2000 would also be great.

TonyOlsen

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2004, 02:23:44 pm »
Quote
My wish - to have a Command & Conquer style game on my Z!


Why not use Stratagus?
Tony Olsen
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2 GB Static CF
1 GB MMC (although it isn't working yet)
My Quest: To get an x86 emulator working on my Zaurus and to have my Zaurus replace my laptop as my MAIN computer
Publically available Videos for the default Zaurus SL-C860 video player

omega

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2004, 04:44:12 am »
Hey TonyOlsen, I think i need the Warcraft files for this? Are they posted anywhere?
Gorgeous C860, 256 Sandisk SD, 1Gig Pretec 40x CF, PDAIR leather case & the really cool retractable iPDA USB sync/charge cable. Powered by PDAXROM BETA 1.

My wish - to have a Command & Conquer style game on my Z! (FREECNC!!!) Simcity 2000 would also be great.

padishah_emperor

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2004, 06:04:36 am »
Quote
But for NOW, my Most Wanted Applications for Cacko: ABIWORD or something similar(Hancom Word is little more than a text editor, but i like their speadsheet program.)


TextMaker is being ported now, I\'m on the beta group for it, you wont have to wait too long, it\'s a full wordprocessor but you will have to buy it... patience... ;-)
Left Linux and Linux PDAs... sorry, got boring.  Switched to Mac.

lareya

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« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2004, 11:27:36 am »
For the person who wanted \"full apps\" I found a site where someone uses debian. His page headline is Pocket Workstation - Debian on Handhelds.  He states that:      
         Full Debian GNU/Linux operating environment
         includes X11 able to run most Linux applications
         VNC client
         Switch between qtopia and X11 whenever you like without rebooting

Seems not for the faint of heart. but if interested please look here:
          http://pocketworkstation.org/

Please excuse this post if someone already mentioned this site.  

TIA,

Lareya
SL-C3000: un-bricked (Thanks to Cresho!)
C-860: pdxRom

TonyOlsen

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2004, 01:00:21 pm »
Quote
TextMaker is being ported now, I\'m on the beta group for it, you wont have to wait too long, it\'s a full wordprocessor but you will have to buy it... patience...  


I know I will probably get hanged for this.. but: Does it have full support for Word documents?
Tony Olsen
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Zaurus SL-C860 QTopia
2 GB Static CF
1 GB MMC (although it isn't working yet)
My Quest: To get an x86 emulator working on my Zaurus and to have my Zaurus replace my laptop as my MAIN computer
Publically available Videos for the default Zaurus SL-C860 video player

Zuber

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2004, 02:56:35 pm »
Only one thing has \"FULL\" support for Word documents. It is called Microsoft Word

Textmaker does look like it should do quite alot of support though. Still beta, so various bits not there yet...
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amrein

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2004, 03:05:18 pm »
Why do you want TextMaker when you can use ABI Word for free from pdaXrom feed?

TonyOlsen

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2004, 03:27:15 pm »
Ok... so what are the advantages/disadvantages of TextMaker versus ABI Word?
Tony Olsen
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Zaurus SL-C860 QTopia
2 GB Static CF
1 GB MMC (although it isn't working yet)
My Quest: To get an x86 emulator working on my Zaurus and to have my Zaurus replace my laptop as my MAIN computer
Publically available Videos for the default Zaurus SL-C860 video player

DrWowe

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2004, 03:29:41 pm »
TextMaker is designed to run on a small screen with a stylus for input.  ABI Word, like any other desktop word processor, is designed for a PC with a large screen and a 2 or 3 button mouse, with bloaty X-windows underneath.

Thanks, but I\'d rather stick with QTopia.

amrein

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Zaurus: A "Complete OS" with "Incomplete Apps
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2004, 07:56:23 pm »
Did you really beleive the Qtopia propaganda? I mean, do you really still beleive that X is heavy and have no place on embedded market?
Read an X11 book and learn how it works. They lie to me and peole complaining about X11 was liers too. It\'s not perfect but all is there.

Xfb is 500 ko and run in less than 1,5 Mo. The only thing I agree with is this:

Qt is an heavy but powerful library and toolset. It is a bit slow on PC. It is also slow on PDA. A good way to accelate Qt (and save memory) is to suppress its X11 dependancy, to change a bit its internal structure (see Qte) and to add ATI video card accelerated driver (SDL, ...). That way you have correct performance and have an easy developer environnement.

But Xnest is very good too for X11 developpement. X11 + GTK (without optimisation for embedded device) is as fast as QTE/QTopia. Did you see how those heavy GTK applications load and run on pdaXrom? Did you compare the load speed with the little Qt 3 applications included in pdaXrom too? Of course, Qt3 versus Qt2 versus Qte 2... is hard to evaluate but... I would be happy to have a table to compare them all.

I prefer to run Mozilla Minimo or ABI Word than run Opera and qText. It\'s a question of taste.