Author Topic: Build Your Own Linux Powered Pda (Read 226593 times)

speculatrix · « **Reply #180 on:** July 03, 2006, 04:47:33 am »

Quote

Here in the US, CF is almost dead in consumer cameras (still doing well in prosumer, though), AFAIK. I could choose basically between XD and SD for media when I was last shopping for a camera. My current camera uses SD, and is about a centimeter taller than a CF card set on edge.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133700\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

true, for removable flash memory (cameras and mp3 players) CF is dying out because SD is catching up with CF in capacity and beating in on price mostly. However, because of the lack of SDIO, we need CF for modems, bluetooth, wifi, gps, GSM/GPRS etc. Hopefully this new powerpenguinzaurus will alleviate the need for much of these peripherals.

Da_Blitz · « **Reply #181 on:** July 03, 2006, 05:12:33 am »

thanks for the warnnining about EABI, i will keep that in mind

OZ and OE, sorry about that its very easy to mix the two up. my problems might in actual fact be with OZs policy but with OE as they like to keep it small whereas i want to keep it easy and fully functional (ie all features, nano w/ colors i am looking at you). anyway as you said this is user space, and we are not there yet nor is this the place to discuss it

i am aware that CF is dead but i want to have the CF slot internal for those who want to put a microdrive in the thing or want to euse thier CF cards for /, if its an isuue with enough people i will drop it but i think it is a good idea in the medium term to have one in designs (medium bieng 4 years, there may be wore pocket penguine models in the future, i sure hope so)

i have heard of LAB but last time i checked as far as i could see it was dead, i guess with the kexec patches it would make this project alot easier

koen · « **Reply #182 on:** July 03, 2006, 06:52:41 am »

Quote

i am aware that CF is dead but i want to have the CF slot internal for those who want to put a microdrive in the thing or want to euse thier CF cards for /, if its an isuue with enough people i will drop it but i think it is a good idea in the medium term to have one in designs (medium bieng 4 years, there may be wore pocket penguine models in the future, i sure hope so)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133729\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

A external cf slot would be usefull for

a) legacy cf hardware like rfid scanners, barcode readers, etc
viewing pictures taken with my cameras (all 3 use cf)

speculatrix · « **Reply #183 on:** July 03, 2006, 07:10:03 am »

Quote

a) legacy cf hardware like rfid scanners, barcode readers, etc
viewing pictures taken with my cameras (all 3 use cf)
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133735\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

there are also SD to CF adaptors whch allow you to read an SD flash card in a CF slot, so the reasons for keeping an external CF slot are quite compelling.

Ferret-Simpson · « **Reply #184 on:** July 03, 2006, 08:14:54 am »

But the reasons for losing it are even MORE compelling.

Our point behind dropping CFIO is simple. To have full CF, we'll need to eat into the DDR memory bus, which is not something we want to do, because we're building this for performance.

The system will have onboard USB2-480, Bluetooth, Wifi (54MBPS with WPA), a 3G enabled phone, and a VGA output port.

56K modems are pretty much obsolete by anyone's standards. The only time I've ever used one is when my broadband goes down, and nowadays when that happens I use GPRS instead. With onboard 3G, a modem is pointless, because if you're going to be using 56k for long periods of time, you seriously need to consider getting a laptop, or just upgrading to broadband. XP

There will be an onboard FPGA-type device acting as an ASIC for people who want to add extra hardware (Be that an RFID scanner or whatever) To which some pins will be left open on the board.

You can get modern USB barcode scanners, and these will plug straight in to the onboard USB, without any problems, and with everything else onboard, it's not a big price to pay.

To add an external CF slot causes problems for the Docking function that Blitz is working on, where the ATA interfaces with a hard disk in a "Dumb laptop" that the Penguin is docked with.

And then there's the point of it eating into the memory bus. It'll reduce the amount of memory, and seriously hit the performance. Currently, we're actually looking at being able to play divx movies at 640x480 in full speed, aswell as good gaming at that res, or even up to the full 800x600 when docked. If we attach CFIO to the memory, that performance will be gone.

They're aren;t enough NEW CFIO devices being released any more. It's becoming almost impossible to get ANY CF wifi, let alone a prism card, the external VGA devices have gone, External Serial cards are few and far between and I've NEVER been able to track down a CF barcode scanner. The hardware companies are moving everything to SDIO, which is commercial, and well supported. (By the companies that they care about, Aka Symbol, HP, Microsoft, Dell, ACER.)

The sockets will be SDIO compatible, if anyone wants to license a stack for their Penguin, and with USB480 and everything else onboard. . It's just not WORTH it. The only big developments in CF are Microdrives and big flash.

Ferret-Simpson · « **Reply #185 on:** July 03, 2006, 08:16:01 am »

Oh, one last point:

There are 2 onboard SD sockets.

You want another WHY?

Da_Blitz · « **Reply #186 on:** July 03, 2006, 08:39:12 am »

i can still see no reason for removable CF when i can get a huge performance boostfrom both moiving cf off the ddr bus and bieng able to use dma on the cf card to reduce cpu overhead

if you want another removable CF socket and SD socket buy a 154325232532 in 1 card reader

SDIO wise i have been seeing and hearing things about linux and sdio, dont hold your breath but there are things happening

anyway, this pda is sort of a diffrent way of doing things, i know you all want SDIO and CF however why do you want that when you have onboard bluetooth and gsm/gprs (and perhaps wifi) as well as usb, we are taking away the specilised pda busses and replacing them with the full no holds barred well suported PC busses

seriosly is there any reason to use an sdio or cfio card when you have usb 2.0 and a full sized socket, i know it makes some of your investments obselete however is it easier to get a usb barcode scanner or a CF/SDIO ane, plus which is more likly to have driver support

that said i can see that there is very little discussion on whats going to be in it so i am asuming that most people agree with the feature set, onec i have the wiki up ill ask if there is anything else anyone wants to add and then freeze the feature set and start sourcing parts like a madman

ps sorry about the spelling, i have a bad habit of typing words or letters backwards and normally when i type this its minutes before i go to sleep

Ferret-Simpson · « **Reply #187 on:** July 03, 2006, 09:30:33 am »

Um. . . Can you put a Blu-Ray drive in it?

speculatrix · « **Reply #188 on:** July 03, 2006, 09:48:08 am »

Quote

Um. . . Can you put a Blu-Ray drive in it?
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133755\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

if you put a memory stick slot and an UMD drive into it, we might be able to get Sony to subsidise it :-)

speculatrix · « **Reply #189 on:** July 03, 2006, 10:42:17 am »

Quote

I've been trying to get someone at
http://www.heroelectronics.com/
to respond to see if they will sell me a 6000 display which looks like this:

I rang them up and was told that Sharp don't sell that display outside of Japan to system builders, but there was one they DO, so they would look into that and come back to me. I explained that we need a transflective (daylight visible) display, minimal size 3.5", VGA resolution...

Ferret-Simpson · « **Reply #190 on:** July 03, 2006, 11:36:57 am »

Built-in Touchscreenlayer, Built in Backlight. . .

Good work!

Quite naturally, we hail!!!

I want FF7. . .

Tom61 · « **Reply #191 on:** July 03, 2006, 05:10:07 pm »

Wow. CF is still a touchy subject in this thread. I made a comment about CF in consumer level cameras which started a heated discussion about having or not having external CF in this PDA.

Anyways, keep the ATA interface. Though, I'd perfer it to be in the form of a 44pin notebook IDE connector, that way you can plug in adapters for CF flash or microdrives, plug in an adapter for 1.8" Ipod style drives, and be able to plug the other kind of 1.8" drives and 2.5" notebook HDs directly into it. Also, is there anything stopping you from powering down the ATA interface on the fly? If you can do that, you could have the CF ATA port external, sync, umount, and power down the interface, swap cards, and power it back up and remount with a small applet. That would end a small amount of the CF versus non-CF debate, as you could use CF memory cards from an older or higher-end camera about as easily as one does now with a Z.

The only other change I'd make personally is drop the micro-trackball for a touch point, but I'd likley be able to do that on my own when assembling the PDA.

danboid · « **Reply #192 on:** July 03, 2006, 05:39:59 pm »

Quote

The only other change I'd make personally is drop the micro-trackball for a touch point, but I'd likley be able to do that on my own when assembling the PDA.
[div align=\"right\"][a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=133793\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a][/div]

Internal touchpoint? Not likely. A microtrackball could easily be fit into something the size of a cxxxx/uni and be fully useable- this is not the case with a touchpoint. You'd need at least 25 square cm to have an even semi-unseable touchpoint and that is waaay to much PDA real estate. Maybe if you're not bothered about a keyboard...

What is all this fuss about barcode scanners? Why would anybody want one of those? Who in their right mind is going to use the pp0 as an EPOS or super-mega barcode battler Seriously though!

speculatrix · « **Reply #193 on:** July 03, 2006, 05:41:22 pm »

Quote

What is all this fuss about barcode scanners? Why would anybody want one of those? Who in their right mind is going to use the pp0 as an EPOS or super-mega barcode battler Seriously though!

me too.. I am wondering why... could not the IRDA be used as a barcode scanner - switch from IR to visible LED?

Ferret-Simpson · « **Reply #194 on:** July 03, 2006, 07:07:55 pm »

As far as my Docs tell me (Ok, tell DBHI, who I've make tell me in Plain terms)

The ATA interface is not in anyway hotpluggable. It's like a standard IDE. If you've ever tried hotpluging one, the System resets.

Internal touchpoint? It's got one.

It's called a Resestive Touch-Layer on the screen. Remember? You operate the menu's with it. XP

The notebook connector idea is a point as far as the internal storage goes, but we're most likely going to be using CF/MDrives, since they're easier to get, and there is no space for a hard disk inside. ATA will be accessible by the docking station, which will most likely be in the form of a laptop that the System slides into. This will have it's own Screen, keyboard, Hard disk battery and pointing device. I also mentioned the possibility to DBHI of basically making the laptop a completely separate machine to the PP, with Dual-Configuration twin iMX31's, not sure what he thinks about it. Just have a bluetooth or wifi linkup between the two, and prehaps an external charger output for the PocketPenguin running off of it. (The whole thing would look like the Desk-Terminal and Tricorder system used in Star Trek TNG and Star Trek Voyager, actually. I thought it was cool.) The point of this is a very low power drain laptop with pretty powerful (Well. . . Kinda) Embedded CPU's, and a full ATA66 Notebook hard disk in, of any size you like. You could essentially run the laptop (with say a 6000mAh standard battery) for about 48 hours with no recharge and the screen's backlight off. Only disadvantage of the system is the 800x600 max res of the iMX framebuffer, although with the 2 iMX's we could feasibly combine them for 800x1200, or 1600x600 display. (Rotate the first 90 degrees and you get a 1200x800 landscape display. . .)

Of course, that would be binary compatible with most PP apps, so most code wouldn't even need a recompile, as long as it was deisgned to handle the extra CPU and Screen size/Res.

Also gives us 1024mb DDR266 in the unit.

1.06ghz notebook with 1024mb DDR266 and a 60gb ATA66 Hard disk and a 1200x800 screen? I'll take one of those to go with my PP!

I also had a look at a site he was poking with. Looks like a fully printed and soldered board set, with all shielding, components, connectors, PCB and keyboard is likely to cost around $450-$500 for the initial prototypes.

If someone can find the price of whatever the heck Case, TFT panels, speakers, camera and battery we're using We've got the rough price for the initial batches of PocketPenguin0.

I'd say what. . . $700 total? Maybe $800 if we're unlucky? Isn't that less than the price of a 6000L? ^^

That's about the same price as a Uni, which is the real device we're trying to beat. (Clamshell Z's are kinda out of date. What we're doing is building an open source Universal with the best features from the clamshell Z - Changeable large battery, Internal Hard disk.

Good way to describe thee PP0 is a Uni-3000 hybrid with extended features.

And the laptop concept DBHI and I have been poking at. . I hereby give it the working title of DeskPenguin, whenther it be either a docking station OR a connectible separate entity.

(Remember, the DeskPenguin could use the PP as a Bluetooth modem or Wifi router to gain access to the onboard 3G connection. It also means we could have the Dual processor system without cluttering up the inside of the PP0, since the Dual processor would only be activated when docked anyway.)

News:

Author Topic: Build Your Own Linux Powered Pda (Read 226593 times)